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If you were MacT or Kevin Lowe.. . . .

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Old
10-22-2003, 02:46 PM
  #26
Yanner39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I love Tommy, and I've defended him on this board since it started. But he was poor for the Oilers last season, and even though the team went through hot streaks and his Save Pct had highs and lows, he wasn't an impact player.

And the goal 11 seconds into Game 6 of the Dallas series was a bullet through the heart. Not just because it was 11 seconds in (or whatever it was), but because it was such a wretched goal.

This season, he's let is some poor goals (the one from the silly angle, against Colorado? I don't recall), but I don't blame him for last night. The Weight goal looked tipped by Tkachuk to me, the Danton/Jefferson goal was his fault and the Mayers goal was not his fault. He had more holes than Bonnie and Clyde on the breakaway, and that was the game.

I don't blame Tommy for last night, but I don't credit him much for last year.
I think what upset me on the first one was the speed of the shot. I really did look harmless. The Demitra goal was bad. It seems he has problems with his angles. I remember last year vs. Dallas, the Phillipe Boucher goal. Slapshot just over the blue line, hit the post and in. It was a beautiful shoot, but Salo plays the angles correctly and it doesn't go in.

I not at all about to give up on him now. The Oilers' offense seems to be back on track and I'd rather have Salo than a bunch of other goalies out there. I mean, I remember in the summer when some posters were looking at Brent Johnson to replace Salo.

I would have started him tomorrow against the Avs. When a goalie has a bad game, I'm sure he's itching to get back out and play.

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10-22-2003, 03:56 PM
  #27
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LawnDemon

I don't understand why you feel Cross needs a ticket to hell? He's been a horse back there every game so far.

Made a heads-up play for the Smith goal last night too. Not to mention a great pinch in the last 5 minutes to be in alone on Osgood. If Ozzy wouldn't have made that spectacular save, it's tied at 5-5 and Cross is a hero.

He doesn't have many offensive tools, but he has alot of offensive smarts in my opinion. So he can't skate like the wind. We have alot of guys that can....but can't do chit smart offensively out there.....ie Chimera

I find it pretty tough be pointing any fingers at Cory Cross.

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10-22-2003, 10:08 PM
  #28
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[QUOTE=LawnDemon]vhanges...

pisani - here's a ticket to toronto
horcoff - here's a seat in the press box
cross - here's a ticket to hell
comrie - here's a class schedule: might as well learn how the real people have to live while you're hanging out (pouting) at the U of A.




LMAO!!!!

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Old
10-23-2003, 12:15 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
LawnDemon

I don't understand why you feel Cross needs a ticket to hell? He's been a horse back there every game so far.

Made a heads-up play for the Smith goal last night too. Not to mention a great pinch in the last 5 minutes to be in alone on Osgood. If Ozzy wouldn't have made that spectacular save, it's tied at 5-5 and Cross is a hero.

He doesn't have many offensive tools, but he has alot of offensive smarts in my opinion. So he can't skate like the wind. We have alot of guys that can....but can't do chit smart offensively out there.....ie Chimera

I find it pretty tough be pointing any fingers at Cory Cross.
you know, i'll be honest... i think my dislike of cory cross transcends the logical into the emotional. i've never liked the guy. ever... so i will admit that my opinion is, more than likely, rather tainted. i was disgusted when he became an oiler and almost sick to my stomach when i heard what lowe decided to pay him (especially relative to staios).

but even when i try really hard to be objective (and i honestly am trying) i find very little to be positive about. yes, he has contributed offensively. he has also blown some defensive assignments that are so rudimentary it defies logic.

cross is paid (too much) to play solid defense. NOT to pinch along the boards. how many good pinches does it take to make up for a bad one? the guys who should be pinching are brewer and bergeron. cross should be hanging back to cover for the legitimate talent. people are all over brewer for his bad start but they forget he is paired with cross. true - brewer has made some bad plays. however, if you rewind the tape you'll notice that MANY (not all) of those bad plays are in scramble situations following a cross screw up.

basically, cross is playing over his head. people are only seeing the fluky offense (i mean come on, smith had to bat that "pass" out of the air and his PP goal bounced off foote). what people are missing is how much cross is hurting the team by playing outside of his role.

maybe i'm way off base and my dislike for the guy is making his errors more glaringly obvious to me? that's is probably the case... but do me a favor and watch closely tonight for what i'm talking about. i'd be interested to know if anyone else sees it the way i do.

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Old
10-23-2003, 01:57 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
you know, i'll be honest... i think my dislike of cory cross transcends the logical into the emotional. i've never liked the guy. ever... so i will admit that my opinion is, more than likely, rather tainted. i was disgusted when he became an oiler and almost sick to my stomach when i heard what lowe decided to pay him (especially relative to staios).

but even when i try really hard to be objective (and i honestly am trying) i find very little to be positive about. yes, he has contributed offensively. he has also blown some defensive assignments that are so rudimentary it defies logic.

cross is paid (too much) to play solid defense. NOT to pinch along the boards. how many good pinches does it take to make up for a bad one? the guys who should be pinching are brewer and bergeron. cross should be hanging back to cover for the legitimate talent. people are all over brewer for his bad start but they forget he is paired with cross. true - brewer has made some bad plays. however, if you rewind the tape you'll notice that MANY (not all) of those bad plays are in scramble situations following a cross screw up.

basically, cross is playing over his head. people are only seeing the fluky offense (i mean come on, smith had to bat that "pass" out of the air and his PP goal bounced off foote). what people are missing is how much cross is hurting the team by playing outside of his role.

maybe i'm way off base and my dislike for the guy is making his errors more glaringly obvious to me? that's is probably the case... but do me a favor and watch closely tonight for what i'm talking about. i'd be interested to know if anyone else sees it the way i do.
I was pleasantly, watching Pisa take a leap in his development last year, so was more than a little choked at the Pisa/Cross aspect of the Carter/Devo trade. But, I am a 'benefit of the doubt', 'wait and see' kinda person. And, it certainly didn't take Cross long to bond with his team. That's what really counts.

Actually, when he's pinching, one of the forwards is supposed to back him up and his partner is supposed to be thinking DEFENSE to the nth degree. And, he's looked pretty good when going for the kill, it's just c'mon, it's Cory Cross. The other team is thinking, "he's shooting blanks", and they're right (if they stay out of his way, so there's no deflection).

I think this is more; 'cover up...', and 'do it like he does it...'; than 'we expect Cory to be the go to guy, all season'. To excel as a team, positioning and puck support have to be second nature. Time will tell.

edit - sry for the hijack.

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Old
10-23-2003, 02:04 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
you know, i'll be honest... i think my dislike of cory cross transcends the logical into the emotional. i've never liked the guy. ever... so i will admit that my opinion is, more than likely, rather tainted. i was disgusted when he became an oiler and almost sick to my stomach when i heard what lowe decided to pay him (especially relative to staios).

but even when i try really hard to be objective (and i honestly am trying) i find very little to be positive about. yes, he has contributed offensively. he has also blown some defensive assignments that are so rudimentary it defies logic.

cross is paid (too much) to play solid defense. NOT to pinch along the boards. how many good pinches does it take to make up for a bad one? the guys who should be pinching are brewer and bergeron. cross should be hanging back to cover for the legitimate talent. people are all over brewer for his bad start but they forget he is paired with cross. true - brewer has made some bad plays. however, if you rewind the tape you'll notice that MANY (not all) of those bad plays are in scramble situations following a cross screw up.

basically, cross is playing over his head. people are only seeing the fluky offense (i mean come on, smith had to bat that "pass" out of the air and his PP goal bounced off foote). what people are missing is how much cross is hurting the team by playing outside of his role.

maybe i'm way off base and my dislike for the guy is making his errors more glaringly obvious to me? that's is probably the case... but do me a favor and watch closely tonight for what i'm talking about. i'd be interested to know if anyone else sees it the way i do.
Ummm... ok... so when they are coming up Cross's side and it is a perfect pinch situation he should yell "hey Brew! Get over here and pinch as your more talented at it!"
When and how often Cross pinches has NOTHING to do with how and when Brewer pinches. I do agree with you that alot of his points have been of the fluke variety, but I too am a benefit of the doubt person when it comes to Oilers, and although I still strongly feel he belongs on the third pairing - you can't fault him for his talent short comings - he's playing at 110% and if all the Oilers did that we would never lose a game.

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Old
10-23-2003, 02:11 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceDragoon
Actually, when he's pinching, one of the forwards is supposed to back him up and his partner is supposed to be thinking DEFENSE to the nth degree. And, he's looked pretty good when going for the kill, it's just c'mon, it's Cory Cross. The other team is thinking, "he's shooting blanks", and they're right (if they stay out of his way, so there's no deflection).
therein lies the problem... when cross is pinching it means that someone else is covering for him. someone else who, by all rights, should NOT be playing defense or who SHOULD be pinching. is it a good thing when mike york or radek dvorak have to cover a cross pinch? heck no. but that's what's happening. do you really want to see cross pinch and brewer taken out of the play because he has to cover for him? i sure don't. he puts other players into positions where they have less chance of success. That is very counter intuitive to the TEAM game. On a TEAM you play to your strengths and try to help your teammates excel in their roles.

certainly he has gotten some early results but the fact remains that his luck WILL dry up. unfortunately, he will still be pinching and the guys who SHOULD be scoring will still be covering for him.

cross is a stay at home dman. when he expands on that role he hurts the team. he makes his teammates look bad by forcing them into situations where they should not be. brewer's early struggles directly correlate to cross taking on a role that is not his. brewer should be making those pinches and cross should be covering the play. If the oilers are going to be consistent they will need each player to understand and accept their roles and limitations.

edit: thome - don't be a jackass. of course there are "good" opportunities for every dman to pinch. cross takes his own forwards out of the play when he pinches as well. i counted 3 instances last game where hemsky was forced back to the point while cross muddled around down low. is that what you want to see?

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Old
10-23-2003, 02:40 PM
  #33
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Let's see, if I was KLowe, I would like to address the weaknesses of the team:

1) No #1 centre (without Comrie)
2) Greater Defensive depth, possibly offensive defenseman.
3) Too many left wingers


1) Sign Comrie.

2) If I can't sign Comrie within the budget, then a trade is mandated. Perhaps it takes time, but I would try to deal with Florida.

Comrie (+ pick / Rita) = Weiss + Novak

I realize that I've posted on here before saying that we need to get a live body back in any trade for Comrie, but I wonder how far away is Weiss and Novak really? Both have played in the NHL (albeit only a few games)

3) In one year's time, would Smith and Salo be here? Both of their contracts will be coming up in a year or so. We need another keeper to tide us over until Conklin is ready for more games or Deslauriers is ready. How about trading Smith and Salo for... Blackburn (NYR) or even DiPietro (assuming NYI gives up yet another young kid....) or Maxime Ouellet (WAS) ?

Smyth - York - Hemsky
Isbister - Reasoner - Dvorak
Moreau - Horcoff - Pisani
Torres - Weiss / Stoll - Laraques

Bench: Chimera, Stoll/Weiss

Brewer - Cross
Staios - Smith
Semenov/Novak - Bergeron
Ferguson

Conklin, Biron (oops sorry, myedit)

looks ok. what about after the lockout, in 2 years time? and hence two more years of experience

Torres - Weiss - Hemsky
Smyth / Isbister - York - Dvorak
Moreau - Reasoner - Salmelanien
Chimera - Stoll / Horcoff - Laraques

Brewer - Novak
Staios - Semenov
Bergeron - Lynch
Allen

Conklin, Biron

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Old
10-23-2003, 03:11 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by LawnDemon
therein lies the problem... when cross is pinching it means that someone else is covering for him. someone else who, by all rights, should NOT be playing defense or who SHOULD be pinching. is it a good thing when mike york or radek dvorak have to cover a cross pinch? heck no. but that's what's happening. do you really want to see cross pinch and brewer taken out of the play because he has to cover for him? i sure don't. he puts other players into positions where they have less chance of success. That is very counter intuitive to the TEAM game. On a TEAM you play to your strengths and try to help your teammates excel in their roles.

certainly he has gotten some early results but the fact remains that his luck WILL dry up. unfortunately, he will still be pinching and the guys who SHOULD be scoring will still be covering for him.

cross is a stay at home dman. when he expands on that role he hurts the team. he makes his teammates look bad by forcing them into situations where they should not be. brewer's early struggles directly correlate to cross taking on a role that is not his. brewer should be making those pinches and cross should be covering the play. If the oilers are going to be consistent they will need each player to understand and accept their roles and limitations.

Sry - I guess I wasn't clear when I said this:

"I think this is more; 'cover up...', and 'do it like he does it...'; than 'we expect Cory to be the go to guy, all season'. To excel as a team, positioning and puck support have to be second nature. Time will tell."

For something to become 'second nature', first you have to learn it, then work it, repeatedly. The kids are still learning and the veterans are being counted on to help them learn.

I haven't seen all the games, but MacT must be getting something out of it, or Cross should be benched, if "he makes his teammates look bad by forcing them into situations where they should not be."

And, the majority of this young team are still developing their strengths, so how do you tell them to 'play to them'? They need to learn how to support their teammates and rely on that same support being there for them. The Oilers are not going to be consistent. Because their "roles", have not fully developed yet. And, I'm not going to get into "limitations".

Guess we see things differently here.

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Old
10-23-2003, 09:34 PM
  #35
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Ok here we go...if i were kevin lowe.... (note- this will never happen and i am not saying it is fair or should happen but a pissed off tired LMHF#2 goes crazy and makes stupid trade proposals)

4 WAY TRADE!!!

To Edmonton-Kalinin, Delmore, Biron, Abid and BONDRA
To Pittsburg-Salo and a 3rd
To Buffalo-Brewer and Isbister
To Washington-Comrie

there ya go...simple as that...trade of the decade...Oilers lineup could be
Bondra-Smyth-Hemsky
York-Reasoner-Dvorak
Moreau-Stoll-Pisani
Abid-Horcoff-Laraque
Torres

Semenov-Bergeron
Smith-Staios
Delmore-Kalinin
Ferguson-Cross (in for whoever is underperforming)

Biron
Conklin

WOOHOO there ya go...what a waste of time it was reading this post eh...no sleep and oilers losing make LMHF#2 go crazy...good night

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10-23-2003, 09:39 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#2
Ok here we go...if i were kevin lowe.... (note- this will never happen and i am not saying it is fair or should happen but a pissed off tired LMHF#2 goes crazy and makes stupid trade proposals)

4 WAY TRADE!!!

To Edmonton-Kalinin, Delmore, Biron, Abid and BONDRA
To Pittsburg-Salo and a 3rd
To Buffalo-Brewer and Isbister
To Washington-Comrie

there ya go...simple as that...trade of the decade...Oilers lineup could be
Bondra-Smyth-Hemsky
York-Reasoner-Dvorak
Moreau-Stoll-Pisani
Abid-Horcoff-Laraque
Torres

Semenov-Bergeron
Smith-Staios
Delmore-Kalinin
Ferguson-Cross (in for whoever is underperforming)

Biron
Conklin

WOOHOO there ya go...what a waste of time it was reading this post eh...no sleep and oilers losing make LMHF#2 go crazy...good night
whoa, thats what i call a "shakeup". i can see something like this happening if we go winless in the next 14 games.

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Old
10-24-2003, 06:34 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#2
Ok here we go...if i were kevin lowe.... (note- this will never happen and i am not saying it is fair or should happen but a pissed off tired LMHF#2 goes crazy and makes stupid trade proposals)

4 WAY TRADE!!!

To Edmonton-Kalinin, Delmore, Biron, Abid and BONDRA
To Pittsburg-Salo and a 3rd
To Buffalo-Brewer and Isbister
To Washington-Comrie

there ya go...simple as that...trade of the decade...Oilers lineup could be
Bondra-Smyth-Hemsky
York-Reasoner-Dvorak
Moreau-Stoll-Pisani
Abid-Horcoff-Laraque
Torres

Semenov-Bergeron
Smith-Staios
Delmore-Kalinin
Ferguson-Cross (in for whoever is underperforming)

Biron
Conklin

WOOHOO there ya go...what a waste of time it was reading this post eh...no sleep and oilers losing make LMHF#2 go crazy...good night
the oilers could never afford bondra and delmore SUCKS... you do have a couple good ideas - namely getting rid of salo and brewtal.

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10-24-2003, 09:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#2
4 WAY TRADE!!!

To Edmonton-Kalinin, Delmore, Biron, Abid and BONDRA
To Pittsburg-Salo and a 3rd
To Buffalo-Brewer and Isbister
To Washington-Comrie
This trade also makes economic sence (sort of)
Oilers lose-Comrie (4.55 mil), Brewer (2.5 mil), Salo (3.9) and Isbister(1.925mil) = 12.875 million (without a raise for comrie)
Oilers gain-Kalinin (0.935mil), Delmore (1 mil), Biron (2.2 mil), Abid (0.45mil) Bondra (4.5 mil)= 9.085 mil
Oilers save 3.75 million dollars...we cant afford bondra??after that i dont think so....

Pittsburg eats alot of salary, however maybe a veteran goalie would be good to go along side with fleury..

other than that buffalo and washington end up with about the same salary..oh well it still will never happen but makes more sence than when i kept rembelling last night haha

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Old
10-24-2003, 09:27 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#2
This trade also makes economic sence (sort of)
Oilers lose-Comrie (4.55 mil), Brewer (2.5 mil), Salo (3.9) and Isbister(1.925mil) = 12.875 million (without a raise for comrie)
Oilers gain-Kalinin (0.935mil), Delmore (1 mil), Biron (2.2 mil), Abid (0.45mil) Bondra (4.5 mil)= 9.085 mil
Oilers save 3.75 million dollars...we cant afford bondra??after that i dont think so....

Pittsburg eats alot of salary, however maybe a veteran goalie would be good to go along side with fleury..

other than that buffalo and washington end up with about the same salary..oh well it still will never happen but makes more sence than when i kept rembelling last night haha
And fans will want Lowe's head. Remember the threats after Carter and Niinimaa were traded. Fans want players traded and then if they are traded, they'll say Lowe was fleeced and should be fired and want his head. Lowe can't win, can he?

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Old
10-24-2003, 09:32 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Oilers89
And fans will want Lowe's head. Remember the threats after Carter and Niinimaa were traded. Fans want players traded and then if they are traded, they'll say Lowe was fleeced and should be fired and want his head. Lowe can't win, can he?
Fans are not going to want Lowe's head if they hear Bondra and Oilers uniform in the same sentence.

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10-24-2003, 09:49 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Fans are not going to want Lowe's head if they hear Bondra and Oilers uniform in the same sentence.
Maybe my brain is a little slow today (not enough coffee yet?)...but why the obsession with a 35 yr old making 4.5 mil whose best years are behind him?

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Old
10-24-2003, 09:53 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by choppystride
Maybe my brain is a little slow today (not enough coffee yet?)...but why the obsession with a 35 yr old making 4.5 mil whose best years are behind him?
Umm, 50 goals maybe? The thought of Ales having someone to pass to that can actually finish? So what if he's not 30 anymore, gotta take advantage of the opportunity (if there is one) to get him.

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10-24-2003, 11:25 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#2
This trade also makes economic sence (sort of)
Oilers lose-Comrie (4.55 mil), Brewer (2.5 mil), Salo (3.9) and Isbister(1.925mil) = 12.875 million (without a raise for comrie)
Oilers gain-Kalinin (0.935mil), Delmore (1 mil), Biron (2.2 mil), Abid (0.45mil) Bondra (4.5 mil)= 9.085 mil
Oilers save 3.75 million dollars...we cant afford bondra??after that i dont think so....

Pittsburg eats alot of salary, however maybe a veteran goalie would be good to go along side with fleury..

other than that buffalo and washington end up with about the same salary..oh well it still will never happen but makes more sence than when i kept rembelling last night haha
I think that saying that Pittsburgh eats alot of salary is a killer, I don't think they'd do a trade where they don't get cheaper or at least level.

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Old
10-25-2003, 07:12 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilers89
And fans will want Lowe's head. Remember the threats after Carter and Niinimaa were traded. Fans want players traded and then if they are traded, they'll say Lowe was fleeced and should be fired and want his head. Lowe can't win, can he?
Yes, we remember the threats...

...BECAUSE YOU NEVER LET US FORGET ABOUT IT!!!




Ah, that was cleansing. Now for breakfast...

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