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Steve Simmons (Toronto Sun): Flyers GM denies rumours about Richards, Carter trades

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Old
09-20-2011, 11:14 PM
  #1
Sawdalite
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Steve Simmons (Toronto Sun): Flyers GM denies rumours about Richards, Carter trades

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TORONTO - Paul Holmgren categorically denies that off-ice issues led to the trading away of centres Mike Richards and Jeff Carter and the stunning remake of the Philadelphia Flyers.

In fact, the mere suggestion of inappropriate behaviour and the multitude of rumours that have surrounded the controversial transactions, angers the quiet Holmgren.

“That (off-ice behavior) had nothing to do with it, nothing to do it,” said Holmgren, the Flyers general manager. “They were young guys with a lot of money who enjoyed their life. And a lot was made of that. And why wouldn’t they? Wouldn’t you?

“A lot of has been said about this, too much really. There have been all kinds of stuff out there, and it’s untrue. Because they were quiet kids and weren’t good with the media, I think some of that came back to them. I think they paid for that. I don’t think it’s been fair. I think the world of both those kids. They gave their hearts and souls to our team.

“It wasn’t easy to do this. But we thought we had to do it.”
I Found Homers denial in this very powerful and interesting.


Full article can be found here:

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/20...-carter-trades


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 10-04-2011 at 12:06 PM.
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Old
09-20-2011, 11:32 PM
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New season has started, I am over this.

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Old
09-20-2011, 11:36 PM
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Who's he even talking about? Homer has lost it

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09-20-2011, 11:43 PM
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they are gone, it's time to move on from # 17 and 18.

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Old
09-20-2011, 11:57 PM
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Never believe a rumor until its officially denied...both Snider and Holmgren have now done so....they should just be silent and let sleeping dogs lie....

Anyway...still think the Carter trade was a hockey trade and that with Richards there was a bit more to it. Def Richards would not have been happy if Carter was moved so both were "accommodated". More so Richards who was placed in a more nurturing environment with Stevens. Also an environment where he could just be one of the guys which is more Richards' style....

Like Snider said, PART of their thinking involved problems with growing as a team and consistency which they thought they weren't getting so they made the ballsy move. We'll be ok and so will Richards and Carter....

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Old
09-21-2011, 01:05 AM
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Who's this Richard Carter dude he's yappin' about??

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Old
09-21-2011, 01:24 AM
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wait, mike richards and jeff carter? huh? are they minor leaguers or something? never heard of'em.

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Old
09-21-2011, 01:44 AM
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I dont think homer traded richards to LA because it is a more comfortable environment I think he made the best deal available. I do think if Carter was traded Richards would of been upset and had a problem with it though

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Old
09-21-2011, 01:52 AM
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It's now cool to pretend they were never here or don't exist eh...

Wow, I suddenly don't miss not being around here lately.

(Unless i'm missing some inside joke, the sarcasm is duly noted)

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Old
09-21-2011, 02:02 AM
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its about schenn and ****ing couturier

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Old
09-21-2011, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
It's now cool to pretend they were never here or don't exist eh...

Wow, I suddenly don't miss not being around here lately.

(Unless i'm missing some inside joke, the sarcasm is duly noted)
It's two players that don't play on the team anymore. Get over yourself. The man crush people have over these guys is just sad.

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Old
09-21-2011, 06:20 AM
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**** Homer. I am much more interested in seeing who the next whipping boys are going to be. JvR had 2 penalties last night, my money is on him, obviously the pressure of the big contract is getting to him.

Maybe someone should ask Homer why the prospects were so depleted over the years and forced him to replenish the pantry. But then, he'd have to admit he ****ed up the cap repeatedly and put the team in such a lousy position which forced him to make a trade.

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09-21-2011, 06:34 AM
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There always has to be a whipping boy.

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09-21-2011, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandingCow View Post
There always has to be a whipping boy.
We need Modry or Vandemeer back. Or better yet, Tollefsen!

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09-21-2011, 06:51 AM
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We need Modry or Vandemeer back. Or better yet, Tollefsen!
No team should be without one!

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Old
09-21-2011, 07:05 AM
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decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
It's two players that don't play on the team anymore. Get over yourself. The man crush people have over these guys is just sad.
I said nothing about mancrushes, or being upset about it. Read again, and get over yourself

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Old
09-21-2011, 07:12 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
**** Homer. I am much more interested in seeing who the next whipping boys are going to be. JvR had 2 penalties last night, my money is on him, obviously the pressure of the big contract is getting to him.

Maybe someone should ask Homer why the prospects were so depleted over the years and forced him to replenish the pantry. But then, he'd have to admit he ****ed up the cap repeatedly and put the team in such a lousy position which forced him to make a trade.
Bullseye!

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Old
09-21-2011, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
It's two players that don't play on the team anymore. Get over yourself. The man crush people have over these guys is just sad.
We hang banners and hold ceremonies for guys who don't play for the Flyers anymore. Get over yourself.

This trade didn't occur in a vacuum. We still have the same organization and same General Manager. Some of us smarter folk just want to know the actual thought processes of some of these people that continue to run the team.

Also, if it annoys you, you really don't have to reply to the thread.

Now in reply to the actual thread:

It was pretty clear from Holmgren's interviews that day that even he was caught off guard by the magnitude of these trades. I don't think it had anything to do with their off-ice issues. Sure, they had a lot of young guys on the team a few years ago and cleared house, but all of those players (Lupul, Umberger, Upshall, Carter, and Richards) all were due raises, and all received very nice ones. That's going to cap-strap a team. Especially considering three of the deals contained NTC, as well.

There was an interview a week or so following the trade that had quotes from Snider. He mentioned how hard the trade was for Holmgren considering his nature as a scout. He's been following these kids since their teens, brought them into the organization in the same year, saw them win the Calder Cup, and saw them both become All-Stars and great players in this league. It's not easy to send these guys packing. It's also a hell of a lot harder to do it after you handed them both long-term deals, and almost guaranteed they'd spend most of their careers in Philly.

Snider, though, let his opinion out a bit later on in the article. He specifically mentioned that when they continued to go down to the Bruins last post-season, no one stepped up. Snider's an entertainment guy first and foremost, at least in my opinion. He wants to make the playoffs and win the Cup because it's going to justify the prices for the butts in the seats.

I trust Holmgren's assessment of talent. In case people haven't noticed, he drafts well. We could have Kyle Turris right now, otherwise. He's also very loyal to the organization, and understands his role within it. We all know that the trade offers came flooding in after the trade for Bryzgalov's rights. That has been mentioned in a number of articles. It's the General Manager's job to put together the best team he can on the ice. Regardless of the attachment between himself and Richards and Carter (If people are offended by me using their names, I can edit them out later ), he got a deal that he thought was good value, that helped the Flyers cap situation, and gave the team more depth. After conversing with Lukko and Snider, the trigger was pulled. Who pulled it doesn't matter at this point, as well should all know by now who has the final say in these moves.

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Old
09-21-2011, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bort Sampson View Post
It was pretty clear from Holmgren's interviews that day that even he was caught off guard by the magnitude of these trades. I don't think it had anything to do with their off-ice issues. Sure, they had a lot of young guys on the team a few years ago and cleared house, but all of those players (Lupul, Umberger, Upshall, Carter, and Richards) all were due raises, and all received very nice ones. That's going to cap-strap a team. Especially considering three of the deals contained NTC, as well.

There was an interview a week or so following the trade that had quotes from Snider. He mentioned how hard the trade was for Holmgren considering his nature as a scout. He's been following these kids since their teens, brought them into the organization in the same year, saw them win the Calder Cup, and saw them both become All-Stars and great players in this league. It's not easy to send these guys packing. It's also a hell of a lot harder to do it after you handed them both long-term deals, and almost guaranteed they'd spend most of their careers in Philly.

Snider, though, let his opinion out a bit later on in the article. He specifically mentioned that when they continued to go down to the Bruins last post-season, no one stepped up. Snider's an entertainment guy first and foremost, at least in my opinion. He wants to make the playoffs and win the Cup because it's going to justify the prices for the butts in the seats.

I trust Holmgren's assessment of talent. In case people haven't noticed, he drafts well. We could have Kyle Turris right now, otherwise. He's also very loyal to the organization, and understands his role within it. We all know that the trade offers came flooding in after the trade for Bryzgalov's rights. That has been mentioned in a number of articles. It's the General Manager's job to put together the best team he can on the ice. Regardless of the attachment between himself and Richards and Carter (If people are offended by me using their names, I can edit them out later ), he got a deal that he thought was good value, that helped the Flyers cap situation, and gave the team more depth. After conversing with Lukko and Snider, the trigger was pulled. Who pulled it doesn't matter at this point, as well should all know by now who has the final say in these moves.
Pronger?

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Old
09-21-2011, 09:11 AM
  #20
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Never believe a rumor until its officially denied...both Snider and Holmgren have now done so....
The problem with this is that it means that basically ever single rumor is true. Not denied? True. Denied? True.

Granted, that would make things more soap opera-y and entertaining.

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Old
09-21-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
It's now cool to pretend they were never here or don't exist eh...

Wow, I suddenly don't miss not being around here lately.

(Unless i'm missing some inside joke, the sarcasm is duly noted)



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Old
09-21-2011, 09:59 AM
  #22
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The reason they were traded has a lot to do with what happened in the second half of the season. The team saw how Richie and Carter dealt with the team struggles and they were not impressed by how they dealt with it. So instead of keeping them around for 10 years each, they made the decision to make the move before they were stuck with them. Start fresh with a new mindset, with Pronger's no ******** attitude and getting things done, instead of the lackadaisical approach by #17 and #18

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Old
09-21-2011, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Never believe a rumor until its officially denied...both Snider and Holmgren have now done so....they should just be silent and let sleeping dogs lie....
I prefer to take the opposite track and say that when a figurehead comes out and denies something, there is some ring of truth to it. How many times have you heard a figurehead come out and deny that a player is or isn't going to be traded only for that player to be traded/not traded within days of the "official" statement.

The fact that both have come out and denied it tells me that there is definitely some truth to it.

That said it's a new season and both players are gone, time to move on to the 2011-12 season.

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Old
09-21-2011, 10:22 AM
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I prefer to take the opposite track and say that when a figurehead comes out and denies something, there is some ring of truth to it. How many times have you heard a figurehead come out and deny that a player is or isn't going to be traded only for that player to be traded/not traded within days of the "official" statement.

The fact that both have come out and denied it tells me that there is definitely some truth to it.

That said it's a new season and both players are gone, time to move on to the 2011-12 season.
Actually I half meant it in this case...I'm not into absolutes..that is why I don't totally buy both Snider and Holmgren saying it had NO bearing whatsoever...none. I do think the hockey reasons outweigh the other off ice stuff however.

I do believe Snider's comment that they assessed things from a consistency and growth perspective b/c over the years (not just last year) that's been an issue most definitely. The losing streaks and the lack of urgency in stretches throughout the season (some at critical times) was becoming too pervasive.

I really think they approached things pragmatically for once and were totally business-like in their assessments. To remove two cornerstone pieces from your "structure" is fraught with risks but to retain them with their stress fractures was also risky especially given the long term commitments they made to both of them (NMC's, years etc). Flyers still have a strong foundation..and they will be able to build a stronger framework going forward IMO. I'm looking forward to more consistency and a much better product on the ice (hard work and intensity) game in and game out..win or lose.

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Old
09-21-2011, 10:31 AM
  #25
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One thing that is for sure is that the organization decided to hit the reset button. I doubt it was any one factor, but a convergence of things. Consistency, slumps, eternal goaltending problems, lack of prospects and picks, etc. All of those things are likely far more important and relevant to the organization than some of their players daring to enjoy their time off.

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