I think Jagr will be pretty darn close to it. He was 34, way past his prime, coming off 3 terrible years in Washington, he was heavy, slow and still put up 123 Pts in 2005-06.
I think the NHL scoring is less now than it was in 2005-06 so 120 + Pts might be hard but I see no reason as to why Jagr can't challenge for the Art Ross.
It's not realistic to think he'll be able to play at the same level as he did in his prime. Have you read any credible NHL source who beleives that Jagr can play to that level. That he will challenge for the Art Ross?
If Jagr can play at that level, why weren't more teams interested in him as a player?
MrHockey1982 says that apparently Harold Camping told him that Jagr will score 100 Pts. Maybe he was just kidding but if this is true, a writer that has been watching Jagr in practice might believe this.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!! Wait, are you joking? Seriously??? You guys don't know who Harold Camping is?? FYI Harold Camping is the guy who wrongly predicted The Rapture and is still predicting that the end of the world is October 21!! I did NOT think I needed to point out that I was being sarcastic!!! LOLLLLLL!!
It's not realistic to think he'll be able to play at the same level as he did in his prime. Have you read any credible NHL source who beleives that Jagr can play to that level. That he will challenge for the Art Ross?
If Jagr can play at that level, why weren't more teams interested in him as a player?
There were many teams that were interested in him. It was rumoured that Florida, Toronto and Winnipeg all offered him near 5 million.
Edmonton offered him around 4-6 million. Detroit, Montreal, Pittsburgh, even Toronto were all in the mix.
In fact the rumour was that about 12 teams total were interested in him.
The reason why so many are giving lower expectations is because of his uncertainty. Most don't know what to expect of him.
I do know what to expect of him, I follow his training, games, highlights.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!! Wait, are you joking? Seriously??? You guys don't know who Harold Camping is?? FYI Harold Camping is the guy who wrongly predicted The Rapture and is still predicting that the end of the world is October 21!! I did NOT think I needed to point out that I was being sarcastic!!! LOLLLLLL!!
Damn, that's embarrasing lol
I wasn't aware of his name. Now I feel really stupid.
I'd like to see some proof of all that. Jagr himself said there were only a few teams interested.
So no other source that covers the NHL and European Hockey is as informed as you are on Jagr? No other credible source follows Jagr?
Your just a fan. Why is no credible source that I'm aware of, share you projections on Jagr this upcoming Season?
I didn't say that but the actual European sources are actually much less harsh on Jagr's expectations than the North American media.
For instance Hasek himself thinks Jagr can still easily be an 80 Pts player. If you go to the Blesk webiste, Hasek is quoted as saying such.
At this past World Championships Kovalchuk thought Jagr can be play until he's 50.
Quote:
“Unless I stop liking the game, I want to play,” Jagr said. “I love the game. I want to play better and better every day. I think I enjoy the practices and games more than I ever did.”
“The game has changed; it’s so much about practicing,” said Jagr, who began his N.H.L. career with the Penguins in 1990. “I don’t think age matters much if you’re willing to practice, plus you have more experience. My advantage is that I don’t think my game was about speed. When you’re older, you’re losing the speed, but my game was never about the speed.”
Ilya Kovalchuk, a Russian player who twice scored 50 goals in the N.H.L., said this week that he thought Jagr could play until age 50. The Czech goaltender Ondrej Pavelec, 23, who hails from Kladno, where Jagr grew up, called him a “great teammate, great guy in the locker room.”
Asked whether he believed he could still compete in the N.H.L., Jagr responded with a laugh and answered, “I think so,” then added, “When people say you cannot play anymore, it’s extra motivation to prove them wrong.”
I disagree with Hasek. The quotes you posted doesn't say anything about Jagr being a dominant player or a 100 point scorer.
If you go on NHL.com., their 3 fantasy Hockey experts have Jagr ranked 97th in Fantasy players. As we all know, fantasy Hockey is based on stats such as goals and assists. Clearly they don't think Jagr is going to contend for the Art Ross.
Every sportsman and their dog knows that you do not lose skill when you get older, only fitness, the will to put your body through the motions and your physical and mental ability to do it.
Zidane could still control a midfield better than 95% of players playing soccer right now
Michael Schumacher is still racing cars and competing( even with a horrendous car )
Steve Davies can still play snooker and pool to top 10 standard
I could go on and on and on. Everyone knows this is fact.
I like how you are comparing racing cars and billiards to playing hockey.
Unfortunately, there is a direct correlation between skill and athletic capabilities. For example, athletes lose quickness as they age, and quickness is central to hockey skills.
That's why goal scorers peak early in their career.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!! Wait, are you joking? Seriously??? You guys don't know who Harold Camping is?? FYI Harold Camping is the guy who wrongly predicted The Rapture and is still predicting that the end of the world is October 21!! I did NOT think I needed to point out that I was being sarcastic!!! LOLLLLLL!!
LOL! BTW I pimped your Harold Camping reference with respect to when we'll see the end of the Carter and Richards soap opera (why they were traded) which apparently Holmgren and Snider can't let go of either....
I like how you are comparing racing cars and billiards to playing hockey.
Unfortunately, there is a direct correlation between skill and athletic capabilities. For example, athletes lose quickness as they age, and quickness is central to hockey skills.
That's why goal scorers peak early in their career.
Hell, Jagr's own career demonstrates this trend.
Goal scorers may peak early in their careers but Jagr's career is different.
He peaked in goals and points in 1995-96 because scoring was still high. His peak in terms of "stats" was 1995-96.
However everyone agrees that Jagr was a better player in 1998-99, 1999-00 and 2005-06. With the 2005-06 case he had 54 goals which is the second highest total of his career and he did this when he was 34.
How many players can even come close to the numbers they put up in their prime at age 34?
Jagr did it.
Jagr as a 220-245 lbs, cycle, puck possession player was far more effective and dominating than the Jagr of 200-220 lbs, one-on-one rush player, even if the younger, lighter, faster Jagr was more exciting and flashy.
As Jagr himself says, his game was never about the speed which is very true from 1999 and on.
The heavier, puck possession player was the older Jagr. Jagr has always been a player that has constently reinvented his offensive game to adapt to the rule changes and speed of the game.
My instinct tells me that Jagr realizes the game is back to being about speed and that he will do whatever it takes to keep up, and not "just keep up" but dominate as well.
Last edited by livewell68: 09-21-2011 at 01:50 PM.
Dude, get a clue. Jagr's best consecutive goal scoring years were when he was 23 and 24, and his goal rate fell precipitously at age 29.
And, no, it isn't just a matter of league trends.
Jagr was not even a goalscorer first, he was a playmaker first.
Jagr has finished 3rd and 4th in assists respectively in 2005-06 and 2006-07, he was well beyond his prime years as he was 34 and 35.
Jagr's second best goal scoring season was with 54 goals. He was 34, that is a cold hard fact. I'm not making up any stats, I'm simply just showing them to you.
Jagr's 3rd best point scoring season was in 2005-06 as well, 123 Pts. He was 34.
Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 09-21-2011 at 02:26 PM.
Reason: qdp
Goal scorers may peak early in their careers but Jagr's career is different.
He peaked in goals and points in 1995-96 because scoring was still high. His peak in terms of "stats" was 1995-96.
However everyone agrees that Jagr was a better player in 1998-99, 1999-00 and 2005-06. With the 2005-06 case he had 54 goals which is the second highest total of his career and he did this when he was 34.
How many players can even come close to the numbers they put up in their prime at age 34?
Jagr did it.
Jagr as a 220-245 lbs, cycle, puck possession player was far more effective and dominating than the Jagr of 200-220 lbs, one-on-one rush player, even if the younger, lighter, faster Jagr was more exciting and flashy.
As Jagr himself says, his game was never about the speed which is very true from 1999 and on.
The heavier, puck possession player was the older Jagr. Jagr has always been a player that has constently reinvented his offensive game to adapt to the rule changes and speed of the game.
My instinct tells me that Jagr realizes the game is back to being about speed and that he will do whatever it takes to keep up, and not "just keep up" but dominate as well.
Were not talking about what Jagr did at 34. Were talking about what he's going to do now at 39 going on 4. That's what matters.
I've been scouring the web looking for a credible NHL analyst or publication who agrees with your forecast for the upcoming Season. I can't find any.
Jagr was not even a goalscorer first, he was a playmaker first.
Jagr has finished 3rd and 4th in assists respectively in 2005-06 and 2006-07, he was well beyond his prime years as he was 34 and 35.
Jagr's second best goal scoring season was with 54 goals. He was 34, that is a cold hard fact. I'm not making up any stats, I'm simply just showing them to you.
Jagr's 3rd best point scoring season was in 2005-06 as well, 123 Pts. He was 34.
I guess Jagr better go back to his playmaking ways if he wants to hit your astronomically high expectations.
Jagr's goals and points dropped significantly after his 'clutch and grab powerplay galore' inflated numbers in 05/06. He has also now spent three years outside of the NHL. To expect him to dominate like he once did is unwise. In 05/06 Jagr had 52 powerplay points, which was good enough for a tie for second in the league. Seven players had at least 50 powerplay points. Last year Daniel Sedin led the league with 42 powerplay points.
Jagr may put up good numbers, but your boasting needs context. The Jagr that left the NHL three years ago isn't the same one that's coming back. He's older, isn't used to the level of contact on the smaller NHL surface, and it will take him time to adjust to the NHL speed and rink size again.
I hope he puts up all-star numbers, but arguing with certainty that he's going to dominate the NHL is silly.
__________________
I deride your truth handling abilities
At this moment we are all just projecting and predicting things that have yet to occur.
Until the games are played, we won't know just how good Jagr will be. All of us can sit here and argue out points and none of us will waiver from our opinions.
What I can say is that Jagr fans are happy to see him back in the NHL, Flyers fans will also be happy if Jagr can put up All-star numbers and help them win.
Let the season begin!
Last edited by livewell68: 09-21-2011 at 03:01 PM.
At this moment we are all just projecting and predicting things that have yet to occur.
Until the games are played, we won't know just how good Jagr will be. All of us can sit here and argue out points and none of us will waiver from our opinions.
What I can say is that Jagr fans are happy to see him back in the NHL, Flyers fans will also be happy if Jagr can put up All-star numbers and help them win.
I'm posting this simply because it is relevant to this thread.
Quote:
Q: How does training camp differ between NHL and KHL?
A: In the KHL you practise six hours a day (not three). But here in NHL it's more intense. Quicker.
Q: You're 39 years old. You've made a lot of money. Why do you still want to play?
A: Because I love it. I love the game. I love the atmosphere in the dressing rooms. As long as I feel I can still play, I want to play.
Q: Does playing with young guys make you feel younger? Or older?
A: I think younger. I like to have fun. They like to have fun. They come to practice, laughing all the time. That's the way I am. There's no difference if you're young or old, as long as you have fun.
Q: How much did you miss the NHL?
A: When I left three years ago, I thought I would never play in the NHL again. The KHL, they were good to me. The city, the fans, the organization were fantastic. Here it's different. Especially in the playoffs, every game is sold out. Playoffs are so intense. It's something special.
Q: Was there ever any doubt in your mind that you can compete in the NHL at the same high level you had before?
A: I have to wait and see. I didn't play in this league for three years. It's going to take some time because ice is different. It's totally different hockey compared to European hockey. In Europe you skate a lot more, but the physical battle is not there. The battle on the boards is different. Hopefully I can adjust quickly.
...
If Jagr can play at that level, why weren't more teams interested in him as a player?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver
I'd like to see some proof of all that. Jagr himself said there were only a few teams interested.
...
It's funny how you want proofs that more teams were interested in Jagr, whilst you imply that there were just few teams and you don't give any proof. And no, Jagr never said there were only a few teams..
VanSciver is a pro at asking for proof to ridicule someone, while failing to provide a single shred of evidence to support his. Though he will keep reffering to the evidence that he has "provided" throughout his arguement.
It's funny how you want proofs that more teams were interested in Jagr, whilst you imply that there were just few teams and you don't give any proof. And no, Jagr never said there were only a few teams..
That's the information I gathered from what Jagr stated. I have no direct info on who offered Jagr what. If I'm asked for proof, if I have it, I will gladly give it.The poster in his reply even gave dollar amounts. I asked where he got that info from. I don't see why that is an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium
VanSciver is a pro at asking for proof to ridicule someone, while failing to provide a single shred of evidence to support his. Though he will keep reffering to the evidence that he has "provided" throughout his arguement.
You keep making these replies that are personal in nature and have nothing to do with the subject matter. Even calling me a troll on one reply.
Like I said in another reply to you. This is an open forum. You have all the oppurtunity in the World to refute any statement I make. And to disagree with any of my opinions.
There are certain skills one loses as they get older, those are the athletic skills, speed, endurance, heck even strength.
Skills like game IQ, vision, passing, shooting, stickhandling do not diminish however as quickly. Heck Lemieux was out of shape, a complete shell of his former self, hadn't been playing any type of hockey for 3 years, was slow and yet put up 76 Pts in 43 games in 2000-01 in his comeback at age 36.
Speed, endurance and strength are not skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof
When you lose your fitness, the skill suffers. Your eyes aren't as quick so your timing is hindered. Your muscles are stiffer so it takes longer to return from injury so that's always in the back of your mind, taking up space. Jagr has been sounding VERY apprehensive coming into this season, either he's afraid of failing and is warning people not to get excited, or he's playing games and is supremely confident. I just hope he keeps his head up when playing the Caps so that Ovie doesn't crush him like he did in the Olympics.
Skill doesn't suffer. In a hockey sense you skating is usually the first thing to go. Positioning has to improve throughout your career especially in the later years as you have to adapt to losing foot speed. Generally the best players in the league rely on their vision to make things happen. The ability to see things before they develop. You don't lose that, as with the ability to pick the corners, make passes.
I'm posting this simply because it is relevant to this thread.
Quote:
Q: Was there ever any doubt in your mind that you can compete in the NHL at the same high level you had before?
A: I have to wait and see. I didn't play in this league for three years. It's going to take some time because ice is different. It's totally different hockey compared to European hockey. In Europe you skate a lot more, but the physical battle is not there. The battle on the boards is different. Hopefully I can adjust quickly.
It's pretty apparent that Jagr's expectations of himself are extraordinarily more realistic than yours are. And when we're talking about professional athletes (especially one with a well-known ego), that's saying A LOT.
Skill doesn't suffer. In a hockey sense you skating is usually the first thing to go. Positioning has to improve throughout your career especially in the later years as you have to adapt to losing foot speed. Generally the best players in the league rely on their vision to make things happen. The ability to see things before they develop. You don't lose that, as with the ability to pick the corners, make passes.
Speed as it relates to skating, is absolutely a Hockey skill. That's as fundamental as A,B,C's.
Jagr was not even a goalscorer first, he was a playmaker first.
Jagr has finished 3rd and 4th in assists respectively in 2005-06 and 2006-07, he was well beyond his prime years as he was 34 and 35.
Jagr's second best goal scoring season was with 54 goals. He was 34, that is a cold hard fact. I'm not making up any stats, I'm simply just showing them to you.
Jagr's 3rd best point scoring season was in 2005-06 as well, 123 Pts. He was 34.
That doesn't mean his prime wasn't his mid 20s. I mean, my God. Get a life that doesn't revolve around slobbering a 39 year old man.
