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Old
09-21-2011, 03:38 PM
  #951
BrockH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRDragon View Post
I agree to the 1 week discussion period over the mass PMing system.

Having the discussing period allows every member to read what other thoughts are, instead of it being hidden in the responses from PMs.
Okay, so that's 3 supporters (myself, CRDragon & Parabola). So I'd like to officially put forth a motion for a CBA amendment to state that:
  1. Whenever a vote is called to amend the CBA, there will be a 1 week discussion period on the forums preceded by a mass PM.
  2. The party proposing the CBA change will be responsible for posting the exact wording of their proposed revision in the league thread, as well as ensuring a PM is sent to all league members (either sending the PM themselves, or soliciting a volunteer to help them). This PM will simply state that a CBA change has been proposed, and indicate the post number where the proposal can be found in the league thread.
  3. No votes may be cast until this 1 week period is done.
  4. This 1 week period will begin at midnight PST following the mass PM.
  5. The party proposing the CBA change may modify their proposal at any point during the first 5 days of this 1 week discussion period. They must do so with a formal post in the league thread on hfboards, clearly stating the new/revised version of their proposal, thus rendering any prior versions obsolete.
  6. The most recent version of the proposed rule change as of midnight PST on the 5th day following the PM will become the official proposal. At this point, the rule change may not be modified.
  7. Voting will open at midnight PST following the 1 week waiting period.
  8. Votes will be sent by PM to the league commissioners who will tally and publish the results.

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Old
09-21-2011, 03:42 PM
  #952
parabola
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Condition 4. ... isn't that exactly what i've been trying to get? And what CCF/CRD don't want?

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Old
09-21-2011, 03:46 PM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
Condition 4. ... isn't that exactly what i've been trying to get? And what CCF/CRD don't want?
Maybe I misunderstood it, but CRDragon said "I agree to the 1 week discussion period." I'm not sure what else he meant by that, unless maybe it was a 'lesser of two evils but I don't want either' thing? CRD, if I've misconstrued your support please let me know and I will solicit for a new third supporter.

My aim was to create the rule in a manner that:
  • A healthy discussion occurs before any CBA change, and it occurs on a public forum so that everyone can be involved in the discussion.
  • All members would be aware of the discussion (achieved via PM).
  • There was no additional work created for the commissioners (hence the proposer must send out the PM).
  • The proposed change could be tweaked based on league input (power resides with the proposer).

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Old
09-21-2011, 03:49 PM
  #954
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Lets try to take out the mass PM part.
Every league member is responsible to read the thread (and participate in the 1 week discussion) and should keep themselves updated on whats happening in the league. There's no way a member in these league should not read the thread for 1 full week unless on vacation or known reasons, off season or not.

Mass PM should be used for the voting process only.

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Old
09-21-2011, 03:50 PM
  #955
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This league needs it's own sub-forum.

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Old
09-21-2011, 03:51 PM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrockH View Post
Maybe I misunderstood it, but CRDragon said "I agree to the 1 week discussion period." I'm not sure what else he meant by that? CRD, if I've misconstrued your support please let me know. My aim was to create the rule in a manner that:
  • A healthy discussion occurs before any CBA change, and it occurs on a public forum so that everyone can be involved in the discussion.
  • All members would be aware of the discussion (achieved via PM).
  • There was no additional work created for the commissioners (hence the proposer must send out the PM).
  • The proposed change could be tweaked based on league input (power resides with the proposer).

What I originally complained about was the fact that you needed to absolutely need to be aware of what is happening in this thread every day. I proposed sending out PMs to people saying "hey x person is proposing this change, we need to discuss it". CCF/CRD shot down PMs saying that people need to read the thread and thats good enough.

Unless it's him sending out PMs that he has the issue with and the proposer sending them out is fine, but my understanding is he's not open to the PM thing at all.

EDIT: see, I was right, they are absolutely against mass PMs. It's stupid to even continue to bring this up as they wont even put it to a vote.

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Old
09-21-2011, 03:57 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRDragon View Post
Lets try to take out the mass PM part.
Every league member is responsible to read the thread (and participate in the 1 week discussion) and should keep themselves updated on whats happening in the league. There's no way a member in these league should not read the thread for 1 full week unless on vacation or known reasons, off season or not.

Mass PM should be used for the voting process only.
I agree 100%, it's one of the reasons i dislike this new amendment.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:03 PM
  #958
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How about a revision? Mass PMs are only required in the off-season since most of the discussion in this thread is largely off-topic. During the season you are responsible for reading the thread yourself.

I support Brock's thingie majiggie.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:03 PM
  #959
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Just cause i'm curious, what is the perceived downside of sending out PMs other than "well you should be reading the thread" ... Because to me that's not much of a downside. Does it really become that much of a hassle to take 1 minute to send out a PM to 12 people?


EDIT: I would support this being in the off-season only as obviously during the season I would be active and there would be less proposals during the season anyways, so offseason would be the only thing that matters.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:04 PM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
What I originally complained about was the fact that you needed to absolutely need to be aware of what is happening in this thread every day. I proposed sending out PMs to people saying "hey x person is proposing this change, we need to discuss it". CCF/CRD shot down PMs saying that people need to read the thread and thats good enough.

Unless it's him sending out PMs that he has the issue with and the proposer sending them out is fine, but my understanding is he's not open to the PM thing at all.

EDIT: see, I was right, they are absolutely against mass PMs. It's stupid to even continue to bring this up as they wont even put it to a vote.
So stop with the pessimism and get a different supporter. You don't need the commissioners support to propose a rule change. You just need 3 league members (yourself included) to call the vote.

That said, I do see CRD's point. I'm not sure how I feel about a rule that has a clause that is essentially designed to limit a member's need to stay involved on the forums. In all honesty, I don't say this from a point of condemnation, but I'm not sure this is the right league for you. A big part of the league's identity is about the interactions that managers have with each other, and your primary interest seems to be to minimize that element and make it 'business only' as much as possible. That might make us a bad fit.

I will still support the proposed rule change, so you need only find 1 more member in favour of it to have a vote called. Hopefully you take the olive branch and run with it, because given how strongly you appear to feel about this...well, if you can't be bothered to fight for a change that you think important, then I can't imagine you really care that much about the well being of this league.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:07 PM
  #961
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Revised CBA change with ubiquitous and parabola as supporters (I trust you're on board with the modification):
Quote:
  1. Whenever a vote is called to amend the CBA, there will be a 1 week discussion period on the forums. If the proposal occurs during the fantasy hockey off-season (i.e. it is proposed on a date that is not part of the NHL's regular season), it will preceded by a mass Private Message (PM).
  2. The party proposing the CBA change will be responsible for posting the exact wording of their proposed revision in the league thread, as well as ensuring a PM is sent to all league members (if required). This PM will simply state that a CBA change has been proposed, and indicate the post number where the proposal can be found in the league thread.
  3. No votes may be cast until this 1 week period is done.
  4. This 1 week period will begin at midnight PST following the later of the proposal forum post or mass PM (if required).
  5. The party proposing the CBA change may modify their proposal at any point during the first 5 days of this 1 week discussion period. They must do so with a formal post in the league thread on hfboards, clearly stating the new/revised version of their proposal, thus rendering any prior versions obsolete.
  6. The most recent version of the proposed rule change, as of midnight PST on the 5th day of the discussion period, will become the official proposal. At this point, the rule change may not be modified.
  7. Voting will open at midnight PST following the 1 week waiting period.
  8. Votes will be sent by PM to the league commissioners who will tally and publish the results.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:08 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubiquitous View Post
How about a revision? Mass PMs are only required in the off-season since most of the discussion in this thread is largely off-topic. During the season you are responsible for reading the thread yourself.

I support Brock's thingie majiggie.
I can agree to this, although I still don't think it's necessary. My biggest problem is we've never had an issue like this because no one has ever made a fuss about reading the thread. It bothers me that a member of the league is making an issue out of keeping up to date with our thread.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:08 PM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubiquitous View Post
How about a revision? Mass PMs are only required in the off-season since most of the discussion in this thread is largely off-topic. During the season you are responsible for reading the thread yourself.

I support Brock's thingie majiggie.
I'll support this idea. Mass PM should come in after the Stanley Cup finals to September 1st. After September 1st, managers are once again required to be a frequent visitor to the thread.

And para, only CCF, you and whoever is a sponsor can mass PMs in 1 minute.

A guy like me can only PM once every 30 seconds, to ONE person. And yes its a hassle.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:12 PM
  #964
parabola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRDragon View Post
I'll support this idea. Mass PM should come in after the Stanley Cup finals to September 1st. After September 1st, managers are once again required to be a frequent visitor to the thread.

And para, only CCF, you and whoever is a sponsor can mass PMs in 1 minute.

A guy like me can only PM once every 30 seconds, to ONE person. And yes its a hassle.
Is sept 1st considered the end of the off-season? Isn't technically anything before the draft off-season?

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:13 PM
  #965
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I'm just trying to Switzerland this stuff. Sometimes I dont keep track of things in the offseason either mostly because most posts are about video games or chatting so I sometimes don't bother reading anything intensively... The offseason is a dry time.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:14 PM
  #966
BrockH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRDragon View Post
I'll support this idea. Mass PM should come in after the Stanley Cup finals to September 1st. After September 1st, managers are once again required to be a frequent visitor to the thread.

And para, only CCF, you and whoever is a sponsor can mass PMs in 1 minute.

A guy like me can only PM once every 30 seconds, to ONE person. And yes its a hassle.
Haha...I knew I could send to 3 instead of 1 since I was a sponsor, but I didn't realize that it also capped you at 1 message/30 seconds. That makes it incredibly tedious...hopefully Parabola is understanding when people PM him asking that he forward messages to the rest of the league.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:16 PM
  #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
Is sept 1st considered the end of the off-season? Isn't technically anything before the draft off-season?
Let's say a week before keepers are due?

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:16 PM
  #968
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Yeah actually I was unaware of that. Someone can always PM me or CCF and we can send stuff out to people.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:19 PM
  #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRDragon View Post
I'll support this idea. Mass PM should come in after the Stanley Cup finals to September 1st. After September 1st, managers are once again required to be a frequent visitor to the thread.

And para, only CCF, you and whoever is a sponsor can mass PMs in 1 minute.

A guy like me can only PM once every 30 seconds, to ONE person. And yes its a hassle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
Is sept 1st considered the end of the off-season? Isn't technically anything before the draft off-season?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubiquitous View Post
I'm just trying to Switzerland this stuff. Sometimes I dont keep track of things in the offseason either mostly because most posts are about video games or chatting so I sometimes don't bother reading anything intensively... The offseason is a dry time.
I changed it so it says outside the NHL regular season (which coincides with the entire fantasy hockey off-season). I'm not intending to have it put to an actual vote for a few days. I may revise it depending on league feedback to something like Sep 1st to last day of the NHL regular season, or w/e. I'll try to gauge the consensus probably and finalize it by the end of the weekend. Technically the rule's not in place so no discussion period is required, but since it's my proposal I think it's fair for me to hold it back from becoming official and reserve the right to tweak it based on league input (pending supporter approval).

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:23 PM
  #970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrockH View Post
I changed it so it says outside the NHL regular season (which coincides with the entire fantasy hockey off-season). I'm not intending to have it put to an actual vote for a few days. I may revise it depending on league feedback to something like Sep 1st to last day of the NHL regular season, or w/e. I'll try to gauge the consensus probably and finalize it by the end of the weekend. Technically the rule's not in place so no discussion period is required, but since it's my proposal I think it's fair for me to hold it back from becoming official and reserve the right to tweak it based on league input (pending supporter approval).
okay with me. I would consider writing it as the day after labor day, which is when the summer technically ends as opposed to a concrete day like sept 1.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:27 PM
  #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
okay with me. I would consider writing it as the day after labor day, which is when the summer technically ends as opposed to a concrete day like sept 1.
Maybe, except I never know that it's labour day until I show up wondering why the 24-hour grocery store is closed Sunday night. Or at least that's how it went during my undergrad.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:34 PM
  #972
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Then do it like Sept 7. The latest labor day can be.

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Old
09-21-2011, 04:54 PM
  #973
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We're going to vote on the proposed rule change in post 961 if no one takes issue. I'll give it a week or so and then send out PM's.

K?

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Old
09-21-2011, 05:00 PM
  #974
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I am a fan of Brock's proposals.

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Old
09-21-2011, 05:25 PM
  #975
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Seems like we're adding unnecessary complexity for no good reason and introducing potential problems if we ever end up in a situation where we don't have any mods in the league anymore. Besides, part of what makes this league good is that people keep up with the thread and engage with some of the banter, I absolutely hate that we're trying to introduce a rule to satisfy "those" (to be more precise, one member) that don't want to do that.

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