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Jagr expectations?

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Old
09-21-2011, 05:06 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Speed as it relates to skating, is absolutely a Hockey skill. That's as fundamental as A,B,C's.
You can only go as far as your body allows with good skating. Not everyone can skate as fast as Jeff Carter or Marian Hossa regardless of how much they practice.

Speed is not a skill.

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09-21-2011, 05:22 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
You can only go as far as your body allows with good skating. Not everyone can skate as fast as Jeff Carter or Marian Hossa regardless of how much they practice.

Speed is not a skill.
Speed is absolutely a skill. That's why they have skating Coaches. And why players go to Summer skating classes. A player can without a doubt, improve his skating and speed, by using and learning proper technique.

It's true, that not every player is physically capable of being a fast skater, but it's absolutely a skill. And it's a skill that can be improved.

Why do you think that in some scouting reports, they say a player needs to improve his skating? Why would they say that if it wasn't possible?

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09-21-2011, 05:25 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
You can only go as far as your body allows with good skating. Not everyone can skate as fast as Jeff Carter or Marian Hossa regardless of how much they practice.

Speed is not a skill.
Yes it is. Some people are faster than others.

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09-21-2011, 08:17 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
That doesn't mean his prime wasn't his mid 20s. I mean, my God. Get a life that doesn't revolve around slobbering a 39 year old man.
No one is arguing that his mid 20's was not his prime, I'm simply saying that a player like him has shown the ability to play (stats wise) close to his prime even beyond his prime.

I have yet to see you actually disprove my arguments, instead what you are doing is making fun of my preference for liking a 39 year old player.

Everyone has an opinion, I myself prefer providing my opinion with stats and facts, I don't like getting into this childish ridiculing of others.

If you don't like this thread and don't like what I'm saying, don't respond.

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09-21-2011, 08:42 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
No one is arguing that his mid 20's was not his prime, I'm simply saying that a player like him has shown the ability to play (stats wise) close to his prime even beyond his prime.

I have yet to see you actually disprove my arguments, instead what you are doing is making fun of my preference for liking a 39 year old player.

Everyone has an opinion, I myself prefer providing my opinion with stats and facts, I don't like getting into this childish ridiculing of others.

If you don't like this thread and don't like what I'm saying, don't respond.
Jagr hasn't shown the ability over the course of a full Season, to play close to his prime in the last number of Seasons.

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09-21-2011, 11:59 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
No one is arguing that his mid 20's was not his prime, I'm simply saying that a player like him has shown the ability to play (stats wise) close to his prime even beyond his prime.

I have yet to see you actually disprove my arguments, instead what you are doing is making fun of my preference for liking a 39 year old player.

Everyone has an opinion, I myself prefer providing my opinion with stats and facts, I don't like getting into this childish ridiculing of others.

If you don't like this thread and don't like what I'm saying, don't respond.
Dude, I proved how dumb your opinion was a long time ago... With stats and facts. Stats and facts show, without a doubt, that you are either a ridiculous fanboy, or 12 years old.

The fact that you think I haven't provided empirical data disproving your position is a clear sign that you are either suffering from denial or dementia.

Essentially, we signed Jagr and unfortunately it was a group package with a large dose of fantasy land on your part.

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09-22-2011, 12:05 AM
  #707
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
No one is arguing that his mid 20's was not his prime, I'm simply saying that a player like him has shown the ability to play (stats wise) close to his prime even beyond his prime.

I have yet to see you actually disprove my arguments, instead what you are doing is making fun of my preference for liking a 39 year old player.

Everyone has an opinion, I myself prefer providing my opinion with stats and facts, I don't like getting into this childish ridiculing of others.

If you don't like this thread and don't like what I'm saying, don't respond.
....I believe that Jagr is going to have a great season, and is going to surprise a lot of people by showing everyone that he still has it.

But damn if he doesn't you are going to get hated on more than Jagr himself lol..

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09-22-2011, 12:08 AM
  #708
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This thread has taught me that Jagr is superhuman. Possibly a superhero. Also, he is ageless, and his DNA does not slowly degrade with each cell division like a normal human.

Jagr will be just as good at age 11,468 as he was at age 25.

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09-22-2011, 12:14 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
....I believe that Jagr is going to have a great season, and is going to surprise a lot of people by showing everyone that he still has it.

But damn if he doesn't you are going to get hated on more than Jagr himself lol..
I think he's going to have a good year too. I just won't be disappointed when that's a 65-75 point season.

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09-22-2011, 12:20 AM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think he's going to have a good year too. I just won't be disappointed when that's a 65-75 point season.
QFT - 65-75 pts is good in my books!

edit: as I said 63 pts was my prediction.

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09-22-2011, 12:26 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think he's going to have a good year too. I just won't be disappointed when that's a 65-75 point season.
I think that would be a great season from him

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09-22-2011, 12:28 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
I think that would be a great season from him
That's about 25 pts below what our friend is 100% confident he is GOING to do.

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09-22-2011, 12:30 AM
  #713
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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
QFT - 65-75 pts is good in my books!

edit: as I said 63 pts was my prediction.
Depends how effective the PP is. I doubt Jagr is going to put up huge ES totals, but he can still get his on the PP.

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09-22-2011, 12:32 AM
  #714
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Depends how effective the PP is. I doubt Jagr is going to put up huge ES totals, but he can still get his on the PP.
True, but if he plays with Giroux and JVR he should put up decent ES numbers as well, I mean that line could be amazing

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09-22-2011, 12:34 AM
  #715
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True, but if he plays with Giroux and JVR he should put up decent ES numbers as well, I mean that line could be amazing
All the reports on him is that he loses gas pretty quickly at this point. His days of being able to go out and just control shifts are behind him.

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09-22-2011, 12:47 AM
  #716
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dude anybody think how hilarious it would be if jags and vansciver were the same person, just arguing with themselves to bump up their post number

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09-22-2011, 12:56 AM
  #717
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I don't know if Jagr will hit what Jags6868 predicts, but I think a lot of you who are predicting 50-60 points will be surprised.
You can never count Jagr out.
I remember when I posted before 05-06, people were putting Jagr at 70-80 points...he pumped out 124. Just search threads back then, he was a complete write off...but then BAM!

The man is still Jaromir Jagr. He may have slowed down, but he can still pass, shoot and create plays. At the very least he should dominate on the power play. People just need to remember that despite being old, elite players often produce. Examples: Sakic, Oates, Selanne.

I'd expect a solid season out of him. (Probably between 70-80 points, but potentially more.)

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09-22-2011, 01:31 AM
  #718
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05-06 was a freak year for a lot of players.

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09-22-2011, 01:39 AM
  #719
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05-06 was the clutch and grab powerplay overkill season.

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09-22-2011, 03:33 AM
  #720
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
...
If Jagr can play at that level, why weren't more teams interested in him as a player?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
That's the information I gathered from what Jagr stated. I have no direct info on who offered Jagr what. If I'm asked for proof, if I have it, I will gladly give it.The poster in his reply even gave dollar amounts. I asked where he got that info from. I don't see why that is an issue.
...
Well, first of all, while I understand you may want some proof of those numbers, there can hardly be any - since negotiations go between GM and player's agent, and GMs usually don't boast about their interest in players who signed elsewhere, you have to take what leaks into the media rather unofficially. But look what you did.

You made up a statement ("There were just a few teams interested in Jagr"), you took it for granted and you built up (part of) your argument on that - Just a few teams were interested in him as a player, therefore he [probably] can't play at that level.

And again, Jagr never said just few teams were interested, if I take one of his latest quotes on this: "There were more teams interested in me in the Western Conference, but I didn't want to go there.", it doesn't seem to support your statement.

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09-22-2011, 07:08 AM
  #721
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05-06 was a freak year for a lot of players.
Sure it was a freak year for some and there were a few more players with 100 Pts than usual but regardless only 2 players scored more than 110 Pts and those 2 players were Jagr and Thornton. Jagr had 17 Pts more than the 3rd leading scorer.

A freak year for someone is when they are usually 70 Pts players and suddenly they score 100 Pts.

Jagr had already put together 4 seasons of 100 Pts or more and had played another 3 seasons (1994-95, 1996-97 and 1999-00) at a 120 Pts pace. So for Jagr it wasn't a freak season as much as him finding his passion and motivation back after playing in Russia.

As for people saying Jagr has more reasonable expectations than I do:

Quote:
Q: Was there ever any doubt in your mind that you can compete in the NHL at the same high level you had before?

A: I have to wait and see. I didn't play in this league for three years. It's going to take some time because ice is different. It's totally different hockey compared to European hockey. In Europe you skate a lot more, but the physical battle is not there. The battle on the boards is different. Hopefully I can adjust quickly.
This to me doesn't say that. Jagr isn't saying he can't play at the level he used to play at, he simply says people will have to wait and see. Jagr himself is not putting a number on what to expect from him, he's not saying "I'm going to top off at 75 Pts".


Last edited by livewell68: 09-22-2011 at 07:20 AM.
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Old
09-22-2011, 07:16 AM
  #722
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Honest question. Why do you defend jagr so much. What is the deal with it?

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09-22-2011, 07:18 AM
  #723
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Originally Posted by Pourquoi pas View Post
Well, first of all, while I understand you may want some proof of those numbers, there can hardly be any - since negotiations go between GM and player's agent, and GMs usually don't boast about their interest in players who signed elsewhere, you have to take what leaks into the media rather unofficially. But look what you did.

You made up a statement ("There were just a few teams interested in Jagr"), you took it for granted and you built up (part of) your argument on that - Just a few teams were interested in him as a player, therefore he [probably] can't play at that level.

And again, Jagr never said just few teams were interested, if I take one of his latest quotes on this: "There were more teams interested in me in the Western Conference, but I didn't want to go there.", it doesn't seem to support your statement.
Your completely incorrect in stating that I based my argument on that. Your completely off base. That really has nothing to do with forming my basis on what I expect from Jagr this upcoming Season. I don't fixate on Jagr, so I'm not aware of every single statement he has made to the press. I just referenced a statement that I read. And I'll repeat what I said previously. I don't know for a fact how many team were interested. But what I do know is that if teams felt that Jagr was going to again be a dominating player and score 100 pts, a whole lot more teams probably would have been interested, especially for 3.3M.

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09-22-2011, 07:22 AM
  #724
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Your completely incorrect in stating that I based my argument on that. Your completely off base. That really has nothing to do with forming my basis on what I expect from Jagr this upcoming Season. I don't fixate on Jagr, so I'm not aware of every single statement he has made to the press. I just referenced a statement that I read. And I'll repeat what I said previously. I don't know for a fact how many team were interested. But what I do know is that if teams felt that Jagr was going to again be a dominating player and score 100 pts, a whole lot more teams probably would have been interested, especially for 3.3M.
... and more teams were. Jagr himself said that many teams offered him more money than the Flyers did.

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09-22-2011, 07:24 AM
  #725
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... and more teams were. Jagr himself said that many teams offered him more than the Flyers but his reason to come back was not for money.

In interviews that I've seen, Jagr said he had some teams interested. The bottom line is that the NHL teams don't beleive he's going to be a dominating player and reach 100 pts. And challenge for the Art Ross Trophy

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