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Mark Scheifele has no ELC contract.

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Old
09-21-2011, 01:10 PM
  #26
Holden Caulfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guerzy View Post
I was under the impression it was 9 games total, whether it be this year or combined with next year, 9 games is 9 games and after that mark the contract would kick in.

I did find this,

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/col...hl_juniors.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
I was under the impression it was 9 a year.
Where are our CBA experts!!
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Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
I'm pretty sure an ELC doesn't kick in until a player plays 10 games in a single season.

I'm just going off memory here but I'm pretty confident it's correct.
Ok all pretty close. When a player is junior aged (so under 20, AHL players do burn years on their deal when they are above 19), he needs to play a minimum of 10 games per season. If they play any less than that the contract slides until the next year. One other note on that is that a contract returned to junior would not count towards the 50 maximum total for this season, but would come back starting July 1 next season.

A good example for people wondering about 9 games per season versus 9 total is Alex Pietrangelo who played in 8 games in 08-09, 9 games in 09-10 but did not burn a year off his contract in either season (first year of ELC was last year, he still has two years left on his ELC).

Note that this applies to AHL players as well. For example, Vyacheslav Voynov for the Kings played 08-09 with the Manchester Monarchs under contract with Los Angeles as a 19 year old, but did not burn a year on his ELC since he did not play in 10 NHL games. However he has burned two years since he was 20 and 21 in the past two seasons, despite never having appeared in an NHL game.

Hope that clears it up.

One perhaps interesting twist that I do not think has ever been explored but I would be interested in is, let's say Scheifele makes the team this year plays a full season, then next season as a 19 year old is returned to junior. I am fairly certain that although he would burn a year as an 18 year old, but not as a 19 year old.


Last edited by Holden Caulfield: 09-21-2011 at 01:17 PM.
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Old
09-21-2011, 01:20 PM
  #27
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Yes. The game was a pre-season, not too important game in general but a huge one for us fans. By the same token, both teams did have vets in the lineup, some of whom are top 6 forwards and on both the Jets and the Blue Jackets and against some defencemen who are on the top 2 pairings. Scheifele was head and shoulders above all the forwards of both teams and was effective against opposing Dmen. Sure it's too early to make a final decision but there's 5 more X games. I'm willing to bet that if he has 10 goals and 10 assists they will be thinking of keeping him. Don't forget there is an NHL tradition of 7th overall picks making their team in their draft year and winning the Calder Trophy.

I'm hoping against hope .......

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Old
09-21-2011, 01:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Winnipeg Jet View Post
Mark Schiefele will command a maximum entry level contract. Thatís three years, and I canít remember off hand the dollar value, something fairly cheap, all things considered. So if he signs today, tomorrow, next year, or before 1 July 2015, it wonít change a thing. The only things you can do with entry level players is try and negotiate less value, which really is pointless if you believe the guy will be worth X dollars in three years (why unsettle him for what amounts to change). The only thing the player can do is refuse to sign as Blake Wheeler and Jason Gregoire did with the Phoenix Coyotes and New York Islanders. But they have to refuse to sign for four years to become an unrestricted free agent. Although an option, thatís not something Mark Schiefele will do. If he continues to play as he has in the Young Stars Tournament and his first preseason game, heíll get a contract, and nine games. Few gave him a chance, but since the day we drafted him, heís had it within himself. If he earns it, heíll get it. And so far, heís doing a damn good job.
Your information on ELC's is incorrect. Scheifele is a CHL player, there for he'll need to be signed within the next 2 years or he'll go back into the draft (2013). Wheeler and Gregoire were both NCAA players so the CBA agreement is different for them. Players that go the NCAA route don't have to be signed until their final year of college eligibility. Gregoire and Wheeler both used an out clause in the current CBA, skipping their senior season's and becoming UFA's. We have a similar situation on our own Jets with Daultan Leveille next year. Leveille could have skipped his senior season this year and became a UFA just like Wheeler and Gregoire. He'll either need to sign an ELC (2012) or the Jets can let him walk and receive 2nd round compensation (which they should). If you want a more recent situation as an example of what could happen without signing Scheilfele with in the 2 years, look no further than Tim Erixon. He eventually forced Calgary's hand in dealing him. Otherwise he would have become draft eligible once again in 2011 and the Flames would have received 2nd round compensation for him.

So we have

NCAA: 4 years before ELC needs to be signed (there's a 3 year out clause that should be changed during the new CBA) or become a UFA

CHL: 2 years before ELC needs to be signed (draft eligible again)

Rest of the world: 2 years before ELC needs to be signed (draft eligible again)

I'm not saying Scheilfele won't be signed in the meantime, I'm just trying to give people an idea of how the current CBA works in regards to drafted players without contracts signed.

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09-21-2011, 01:49 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Ok all pretty close. When a player is junior aged (so under 20, AHL players do burn years on their deal when they are above 19), he needs to play a minimum of 10 games per season. If they play any less than that the contract slides until the next year. One other note on that is that a contract returned to junior would not count towards the 50 maximum total for this season, but would come back starting July 1 next season.

A good example for people wondering about 9 games per season versus 9 total is Alex Pietrangelo who played in 8 games in 08-09, 9 games in 09-10 but did not burn a year off his contract in either season (first year of ELC was last year, he still has two years left on his ELC).

Note that this applies to AHL players as well. For example, Vyacheslav Voynov for the Kings played 08-09 with the Manchester Monarchs under contract with Los Angeles as a 19 year old, but did not burn a year on his ELC since he did not play in 10 NHL games. However he has burned two years since he was 20 and 21 in the past two seasons, despite never having appeared in an NHL game.

Hope that clears it up.

One perhaps interesting twist that I do not think has ever been explored but I would be interested in is, let's say Scheifele makes the team this year plays a full season, then next season as a 19 year old is returned to junior. I am fairly certain that although he would burn a year as an 18 year old, but not as a 19 year old.
I'm not sure you're correct on the bolded statement. I'll have to check it out. I was under the impression that all contracts (regardless of ELC) still fall under the 50 player contract. If you have a link concerning that I'd be interested in seeing it

BTW you're correct on the last staement about returning an 19 after he's already played a season in the NHL as an 18 year old. Doesn't really happen that I can think of.

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09-21-2011, 01:59 PM
  #30
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So I found the info we're looking for

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=430807

Quote:
Other players may be signed to contracts but returned to the player’s junior club – most often this takes place between an NHL club and Canadian Major Junior teams (teams that play in the Ontario Hockey League, Quebec Major Junior Hockey League, or Western Hockey League, collectively the CHL). But 18 and 19-year-old players assigned to their team in the CHL do not count against the 50-contract maximum, until they have played at least 11 NHL games in one season.

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Old
09-22-2011, 10:50 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipeg Jet View Post
Mark Schiefele will command a maximum entry level contract. Thatís three years, and I canít remember off hand the dollar value, something fairly cheap, all things considered. So if he signs today, tomorrow, next year, or before 1 July 2015, it wonít change a thing. The only things you can do with entry level players is try and negotiate less value, which really is pointless if you believe the guy will be worth X dollars in three years (why unsettle him for what amounts to change). The only thing the player can do is refuse to sign as Blake Wheeler and Jason Gregoire did with the Phoenix Coyotes and New York Islanders. But they have to refuse to sign for four years to become an unrestricted free agent. Although an option, thatís not something Mark Schiefele will do. If he continues to play as he has in the Young Stars Tournament and his first preseason game, heíll get a contract, and nine games. Few gave him a chance, but since the day we drafted him, heís had it within himself. If he earns it, heíll get it. And so far, heís doing a damn good job.
Not sure about Gregoire, but as I remember it, Wheeler went back to the draft after 2 years. I actually kinda dislike him over that seeing as I was a 'yotes fan then. Overall, it's just not the kind of thing a character guy does. I mean who grows up dreaming of being an NHL player and then goes "well, not for THIS team, though?"

Also, I always referred to the 'yotes as the Jets, so I took it pretty personally!

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09-22-2011, 11:00 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heilongjetsfan View Post
Not sure about Gregoire, but as I remember it, Wheeler went back to the draft after 2 years. I actually kinda dislike him over that seeing as I was a 'yotes fan then. Overall, it's just not the kind of thing a character guy does. I mean who grows up dreaming of being an NHL player and then goes "well, not for THIS team, though?"

Also, I always referred to the 'yotes as the Jets, so I took it pretty personally!
Wheeler didn't re-enter the draft, he became a UFA after 4 years and signed with Boston, just like Gregoire and Blake Kessel did this off season. I'm not a fan of this move either.

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Old
09-22-2011, 02:20 PM
  #33
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This thread is confusing at times!

I just wanted to say Schiefele looks great....if he makes the team it is a young roster so hopefully he can still learn and flourish. If he goes back to junior its only probably for one season. He will be in a jets uni soon enough.

With that said we have tons of young exciting talent that looks like will give it 110% every night and we know the seats will be filled!

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09-22-2011, 09:56 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
One perhaps interesting twist that I do not think has ever been explored but I would be interested in is, let's say Scheifele makes the team this year plays a full season, then next season as a 19 year old is returned to junior. I am fairly certain that although he would burn a year as an 18 year old, but not as a 19 year old.
I honestly don't believe this to be true. Once you start the time clock, it continues, even if you send a player back to Juniors for his 19 year old season.

The most recent example of this is Luca Sbisa, an 08 draft pick of the Flyers, drafted out of the CHL. They rushed him into the league as an 18 year old where he played half the season. They returned him to juniors midway through the season.

He was part of the Pronger trade. Anaheim returned him to juniors after 8 games in 09-10.

He played full time with the Quacks in 10-11 and finished his standard 3 year EL contract. He signed a 4 year extension that starts now (worth 8.7 million bucks) through the 2014-2015 season.

http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=755

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Last edited by Tachycineta: 09-22-2011 at 10:04 PM.
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Old
09-22-2011, 10:06 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachycineta View Post
I honestly don't believe this to be true. Once you start the time clock, it continues, even if you send a player back to Juniors for his 19 year old season.

The most recent example of this is Luca Sbisa, an 08 draft pick of the Flyers, drafted out of the CHL. They rushed him into the league as an 18 year old where he played half the season. They returned him to juniors.

He was part of the Pronger deal. Anaheim returned him to juniors after 8 games in 09-10.

He played full time with the Quacks in 10-11 and finished his standard 3 year EL contract. He signed a 4 year extension that starts now (worth 8.7 million bucks) through the 2014-2015 season.

http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=755
Good call, that was the one I was unsure of. I am usually very good at these types of things I do alot of reading, but that was one case I was not sure of. I cannot believe I forgot about this happening to Sbisa, it's pretty rare situation a player makes it at 18 full-time then not 19.

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