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Tomáš Hyka (returned to his junior club, Gatineau, Sept. 22)

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:31 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Before I respond to this, what are the constant, chronic problems regarding the CBA rules? The Pronger deal, this one, and what else? I'm not saying there weren't any other ones, I just can't remember the other issues.
Talbot's contract was another.

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09-22-2011, 12:34 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by PF View Post
Talbot's contract was another.
They also did not know Bartulis was eligible for waivers last year until a blogger pointed it out to them.

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:41 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Hyka will probably have a breakout year in the Q and the Flyers will have to burn a second or third round pick to grab him, or someone else grabs him before they get the chance. Instead they could have had him for a worthless 7th rounder last year when they claim they already had their eyes on him.

Thats a massive **** up
Honestly, let's just sign a formal affiliation agreement. I think that Pageau (Ottawa) and Jánošík (Tampa) are the only current Olympiques with other affiliations. With the way the Flyers are gobbling up former Olympiques, I might have to change my allegiances in the NHL.

By the way, I don't think anyone owns Christian Ouellet's rights, and he's old enough that he is no longer draft eligible, if I understand the eligibility rules correctly. Ouellet, Rousseau, there's a number of awesome prospects to be had by signing on!

It's a shame that junior teams and NHL teams can't be affiliated any more...

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
They also did not know Bartulis was eligible for waivers last year until a blogger pointed it out to them.
The Randy Jones stupidity... very much part of the chronic stupidity.

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:45 PM
  #80
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Straight from the horsetooth jackass Barry Hanrahan himself...

Quote:
The short, happy training camp of Tomas Hyka ended on Thursday.

The 18-year-old Czech left wing is being returned to his junior club in Gatineau because he can’t be signed.

He’s not an unrestricted free agent in the strictest sense of the CBA.

“We misunderstood somewhere there when we were talking to the league,” assistant general manager Barry Hanrahan said. “He came up into the system as a Canadian junior hockey player – which he is.

“We can’t sign him because of [Section] 8.9 in the CBA. He played in Europe last year. It’s not where you are currently playing, it’s where you played the previous year.

“We were speaking with the league on whether he was a draft-related unrestricted free agent. Had he played in North America last year, he would have been unrestricted.”

http://www.csnphilly.com/blog/flyers-talk

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Old
09-22-2011, 12:47 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Well that's not misunderstanding the CBA, that is just bad drafting. But I'm assuming if they didn't draft him, it was because they thought other people were better or there were other factors at play. If they really, truly thought he was a third round pick, they would have drafted, unless the other players they drafted they thought were better.
I'm not sure why I expect you to read the pertinent material, but from the horse's mouth:

Quote:
"We thought about drafting Hyka in the third or fourth round," one Flyers executive told me prior to the game. "But the draft goes in a lot of different directions all the time, and sometimes you forget about guys - and that's what happened with Hyka.

"By the time we realized he was still on the board it was the seventh round and we were debating between him and a big and tough kid (Derek Mathers) and we decided to draft the tough kid hoping we could get Hyka into camp as an undrafted kid. It worked out for us."
The final paragraph is one of the most inexplicable explanations for a draft pick I've ever read. Unless they're going to say they were considering picking Mathers in the 3rd rd, too... which they probably would have said there.

As to the "it worked out for us," there you have the admittance that they don't know what they're doing.

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Old
09-22-2011, 01:00 PM
  #82
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So this guy can still be drafted in 2012?

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Old
09-22-2011, 01:05 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
That said, I like Hyka. I'd like to see him become a prospect. That goal celebration was freaking awesome.

BUT, he's not some all-world kid. Let's not overhype another kid at camp.

Didn't some of you guys hype the crap out of Sinisalo's son just a bit ago?


.
yeah its not like anyone gets overhyped

Matt Read
Jason Akeson

2 players some have penciled into the top 6.

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09-22-2011, 01:07 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Unless they're going to say they were considering picking Mathers in the 3rd rd, too
Klotz...

Its another "not really a big deal, but something they should have known" thing. The problem is when those things continue to happen something has to be done, and thus far nothing has been done. I've been saying for a while now that they need a Joe Banner type guy to come in and handle the nuances of the cap, and advise Holmgren. The staff he has in place now isn't doing a great job.

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09-22-2011, 01:08 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not sure why I expect you to read the pertinent material, but from the horse's mouth:



The final paragraph is one of the most inexplicable explanations for a draft pick I've ever read. Unless they're going to say they were considering picking Mathers in the 3rd rd, too... which they probably would have said there.

As to the "it worked out for us," there you have the admittance that they don't know what they're doing.
Ok so there you go. They forgot about him and then were posed with a choice between two different players and they chose the other one. That's got nothing to do with misunderstanding the CBA, that's just drafting players.

As far as misunderstanding the CBA goes, we have Pronger, Bartulis, Talbot, and now this. The Randy Jones thing isn't misunderstanding, that was just a bad move. The other four, while clear that there was misunderstanding of the CBA, were not big deals. That is four mistakes in five years. Talbot was easily fixed. Pronger, at least at this point, has not been detrimental to the team, and there's no telling what kind of contract he would have gotten if they did know it would be a 35+. Shorter term but more money? Would he still be here? Who knows. So while it was clear that they made a mistake there, again, not a huge deal. Bartulis mistake, again, not really sure why that matters. This guy wasn't going to be anything special anyway. So he had to sit on the bench of a year and stunted his development from a #7 dman to #6 dman. Sucks and was an apparent mistake. But not really something to lose your **** over. Same thing with Hyka. They blew it and could have had him as a prospect. But two good games in training camp doesn't make you anything special.

You've never made a mistake at your job, I am almost sure of it because you clearly at the best at whatever it is you do, but I'm sure you know someone who has messed up at their job and wasn't fired for it. Come on, if you made four mistakes in five years at your job, none which negatively affected your employer, do you think you would be fired?

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09-22-2011, 01:11 PM
  #86
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When did Holmgren's mom start posting here?

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Old
09-22-2011, 01:11 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah its not like anyone gets overhyped

Matt Read
Jason Akeson

2 players some have penciled into the top 6.
I think the Flyers management are even penciling Read into the top 9. It was a farce earlier this offseason, but now its shaping up like the possibility is extremely high.

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Old
09-22-2011, 01:13 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Ok so there you go. They forgot about him and then were posed with a choice between two different players and they chose the other one. That's got nothing to do with misunderstanding the CBA, that's just drafting players.

As far as misunderstanding the CBA goes, we have Pronger, Bartulis, Talbot, and now this. The Randy Jones thing isn't misunderstanding, that was just a bad move. The other four, while clear that there was misunderstanding of the CBA, were not big deals. That is four mistakes in five years. Talbot was easily fixed. Pronger, at least at this point, has not been detrimental to the team, and there's no telling what kind of contract he would have gotten if they did know it would be a 35+. Shorter term but more money? Would he still be here? Who knows. So while it was clear that they made a mistake there, again, not a huge deal. Bartulis mistake, again, not really sure why that matters. This guy wasn't going to be anything special anyway. So he had to sit on the bench of a year and stunted his development from a #7 dman to #6 dman. Sucks and was an apparent mistake. But not really something to lose your **** over. Same thing with Hyka. They blew it and could have had him as a prospect. But two good games in training camp doesn't make you anything special.

You've never made a mistake at your job, I am almost sure of it because you clearly at the best at whatever it is you do, but I'm sure you know someone who has messed up at their job and wasn't fired for it. Come on, if you made four mistakes in five years at your job, none which negatively affected your employer, do you think you would be fired?
Wow... ok... um. So just because, for some of them, the severity is not high, its OK for management to not understand the CBA? Honestly, I dont see how you can agree with that statement.

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Old
09-22-2011, 01:15 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Come on, if you made four mistakes in five years at your job, none which negatively affected your employer, do you think you would be fired?
So because my employee effed up a bunch of times but b/c of fortune the impact was nil or minimal I should have confidence in their incompetence and lack of better judgment or due dilligence? I don't follow..especially in an environment of high unemployment and underemployment where there is 1 job for every 5 looking or educated underemployed candidates delivering pizzas b/c of lack of jobs/consumer demand. Moreover, I could pay them cheaper b/c they are desperate and wouldn't be apathetic as to make more than 1 mistake at most let alone 4 or more....

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09-22-2011, 01:29 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Wow... ok... um. So just because, for some of them, the severity is not high, its OK for management to not understand the CBA? Honestly, I dont see how you can agree with that statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
So because my employee effed up a bunch of times but b/c of fortune the impact was nil or minimal I should have confidence in their incompetence and lack of better judgment or due dilligence? I don't follow..especially in an environment of high unemployment and underemployment where there is 1 job for every 5 looking or educated underemployed candidates delivering pizzas b/c of lack of jobs/consumer demand. Moreover, I could pay them cheaper b/c they are desperate and wouldn't be apathetic as to make more than 1 mistake at most let alone 4 or more....
Ok good point. All mistakes should fireable mistakes, regardless of the impact, because the rest of his (or anyone's) job, which he has done pretty well, is irrelevant. It's these mistakes that have no real negative impact that should be what really matters. Not the good things.

I'm not saying it's necessarily excusable and that he and his staff should just ignore the CBA. What I am saying is that a handful of mistakes, with little or no impact, do not outweigh the good things he has done for this team. I don't know how you can not agree with that statement. No GM, or any professional for that matter, is going to be perfect. There will be mistakes. There will be bad choices. There will be incredibly stupid gaffes. But if they don't affect the club (employer, organization, etc) whomever is making these mistakes (especially at a shocking rate of less than one per year), will not be fired.

Now, let's say he used this year's first round pick on a guy that was ineligible for the draft for some reason thinking he was eligible. Then ok, let's get rid of him because that hurts the team. But thinking you can sign a guy, who may or may not ever be in the NHL anyway when it turns out you can't, is not something that a guy should be fired for.

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Old
09-22-2011, 01:32 PM
  #91
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so we took a big winger who is slow and likes to get punched in the face over fast speedy winger with a lot of upside.
quite frankly I am shocked.
of course there are some who think you cant win with clowns like Mathers and Klotz.

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09-22-2011, 01:43 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Ok so there you go. They forgot about him and then were posed with a choice between two different players and they chose the other one. That's got nothing to do with misunderstanding the CBA, that's just drafting players.
Dude. Seriously?

The guy SPECIFICALLY says that part of the logic was that they hoped he would go undrafted and they could get him into camp -- with the obvious intent of signing him if they liked him.

Here, I'll quote it for you again:

Quote:
...and we decided to draft the tough kid hoping we could get Hyka into camp as an undrafted kid. It worked out for us.
They got him into camp, but they are not allowed to sign him... so that's a wasted effort.

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09-22-2011, 01:44 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Wow... ok... um. So just because, for some of them, the severity is not high, its OK for management to not understand the CBA? Honestly, I dont see how you can agree with that statement.
Because he's incapable of dealing with criticism of the Flyers.

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09-22-2011, 01:48 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Dude. Seriously?

The guy SPECIFICALLY says that part of the logic was that they hoped he would go undrafted and they could get him into camp -- with the obvious intent of signing him if they liked him.

Here, I'll quote it for you again:



They got him into camp, but they are not allowed to sign him... so that's a wasted effort.
My bad, I read that wrong, thought it said we drafted the tough kid and then got Hyka into camp. I guess my membership should be revoked for making a mistake. The rest of my argument stands though.

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09-22-2011, 01:49 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
My bad, I read that wrong, thought it said we drafted the tough kid and then got Hyka into camp. I guess my membership should be revoked for making a mistake. The rest of my argument stands though.
No, it really doesn't. It's excuses and excuses for incompetence. We're not talking about a one time thing here.

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09-22-2011, 01:49 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
My bad, I read that wrong, thought it said we drafted the tough kid and then got Hyka into camp. I guess my membership should be revoked for making a mistake. The rest of my argument stands though.
The "forgetting" of him is not the issue. It's silly, but it's not the issue. It's their inability to understand the CBA, which cost them a player they clearly wanted.

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09-22-2011, 01:54 PM
  #97
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I guess we just cut from two different cloths. I think small mistakes that amount little impacts, even at the unspeakable pace of four mistakes in five years, should cost an otherwise good GM his job. You think that despite his restructuring of the team, bringing them within a few games of the Stanley Cup and getting a solid crop of young players and an elite goalie, his four mistakes that did not affect this team in a negative way should force us to look elsewhere for a GM.

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09-22-2011, 01:55 PM
  #98
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The "forgetting" of him is not the issue. It's silly, but it's not the issue. It's their inability to understand the CBA, which cost them a player they clearly wanted.
No, that's an issue.

This wasn't some fantasy football draft. And, even then, you telling me if there is a player you want in rd. 3 or 4 and decided to go a different direction, you aren't watching to see what happens with that player in the hope he falls to you again?

Lastly, do they not have a big board and know how to operate a highlighter?

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09-22-2011, 02:03 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
The "forgetting" of him is not the issue. It's silly, but it's not the issue. It's their inability to understand the CBA, which cost them a player they clearly wanted.
That is just as big of an issue as their inability to understand the CBA. They had a talent they graded as a 3rd round talent and somehow forgot him. Then they figure a no skill player who would have went undrafted was more important to pick than getting a 3rd round talent in the 7th round. If it wasn't for that stupid decision making their lack of understanding on the CBA wouldn't have been an issue in this instance.

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09-22-2011, 02:16 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
No, that's an issue.

This wasn't some fantasy football draft. And, even then, you telling me if there is a player you want in rd. 3 or 4 and decided to go a different direction, you aren't watching to see what happens with that player in the hope he falls to you again?

Lastly, do they not have a big board and know how to operate a highlighter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
That is just as big of an issue as their inability to understand the CBA. They had a talent they graded as a 3rd round talent and somehow forgot him. Then they figure a no skill player who would have went undrafted was more important to pick than getting a 3rd round talent in the 7th round. If it wasn't for that stupid decision making their lack of understanding on the CBA wouldn't have been an issue in this instance.
Didn't intend to write it off entirely.

Just mean't it's not THE issue. I was speaking directly to the CBA misunderstanding(s).

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