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R.J. Umberger Signs 5-Year $23 Million Extension

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Old
09-21-2011, 10:03 PM
  #51
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If I was nitpicking, I would have loved the same contract minus the 5th year. Although he has been incredibly durable, his style of play would indicate that the wear and tear on his body is going take its toll eventually.

But I understand that RJ likely would have got something similar or more as a free agent. Glad to have him aboard.

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09-22-2011, 02:55 AM
  #52
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Lots of rose-colored spectacles in this thread.

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09-22-2011, 06:17 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
Lots of rose-colored spectacles in this thread.
Are we to take it that you disagree with some of the opinions put forth in this thread?

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09-22-2011, 12:55 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by ClevelandJacketFan View Post
That's...a lot of money.

Well, I like RJ so i'm good with it but...wow, 4.5 million? Wow. Wow.

I'm just going to keep saying wow.
But then, after reality sets in and you realize that that salary isnt even a million dollar raise compared to what he's making now (3.75 million) and that he's a lock for 50 points and 20-25 goals every year, will you still be saying wow? didnt think so

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09-22-2011, 01:07 PM
  #55
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I'm still waiting for someone to explain how this is overpayment. His cap hit is 3.75 currently, after seasons of 46 points (actual salary $3mill), 55 points (actual salary $3.5mill) 57 points (actual salary $4 mill). This season his actual salary is (you guessed it) $4.5 million. So not only is it less than a million dollar raise in terms of cap hit, it's only $100k more than he's actually making this year.

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09-22-2011, 01:23 PM
  #56
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Its not really overpayment. He got paid market value. Most people havent come to grips with the inflation of the salary cap.

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09-22-2011, 02:05 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Are we to take it that you disagree with some of the opinions put forth in this thread?
Indeed.

The deal is two years too long for the money. If the last 2 years were at a lower cost or it was only a 3 year deal it would be ideal. Given RJs age and playing style, the back end of this contract is going to be an issue.

However it's not my money and it pleases most of the sheep fans so it's not a huge issue.

I don't think many have noticed but RJ is the new Jody Shelley.

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09-22-2011, 02:13 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
Indeed.

The deal is two years too long for the money. If the last 2 years were at a lower cost or it was only a 3 year deal it would be ideal. Given RJs age and playing style, the back end of this contract is going to be an issue.
A reasonable position. Personally I'm willing to let it slide presuming that even if he's not performing at a level we'd prefer that he'll be a solid veteran presence on a team loaded with young talent.

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However it's not my money and it pleases most of the sheep fans so it's not a huge issue.

I don't think many have noticed but RJ is the new Jody Shelley.
Seriously?

I've been critical of the lack of criticism RJU receives, but even I didn't find it necessary to resort to name calling. Thankfully, we have some who can set us straight, right, you cranky old galoot?

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09-22-2011, 02:30 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
Given RJs age and playing style, the back end of this contract is going to be an issue.
I guess 35 is the new 40 in the NHL

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However it's not my money and it pleases most of the sheep fans so it's not a huge issue.
And people think I'm insulting.

May I just say that I'm not a sheep and I find nothing concerning here. Sure he may become injury prone but I'm not jumping off ledges with fright because of his play style and how it might impact his health. This is a reactionary position that you really can't prove will come to pass. You can't even suggest that it's a 50/50 chance without skewing data to favor your position. It's a risk, but far from a certainty.

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09-22-2011, 02:30 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
Indeed.

The deal is two years too long for the money. If the last 2 years were at a lower cost or it was only a 3 year deal it would be ideal. Given RJs age and playing style, the back end of this contract is going to be an issue.
Given that RJ is likely to be able to contribute to the team as a whole even if his skills start to deteriorate, I don't think it's as much of an issue as you suggest. Unless, of course, none of that actually counts and we were absolutely right to dump guys like Peca and Malhotra because there was more talent elsewhere.

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I don't think many have noticed but RJ is the new Jody Shelley.
I seem to recall Shelley's last career year being six years ago, when he scored 10 points.

RJ's was last year, for 57 points.


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09-22-2011, 02:36 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
A reasonable position. Personally I'm willing to let it slide presuming that even if he's not performing at a level we'd prefer that he'll be a solid veteran presence on a team loaded with young talent.



Seriously?

I've been critical of the lack of criticism RJU receives, but even I didn't find it necessary to resort to name calling. Thankfully, we have some who can set us straight, right, you cranky old galoot?
I'm pretty sure I can count the number of non-positive posts re: RJU without taking off my shoes.

Everybody loves RJ, that's great, but it seems that everyone loves him because he plays hard and puts up points. However I can't see his style or level of play being sustainable past his early 30's. There's no elite level skill for him to fall back on once injuries and age take their toll, and they will.

I've yet to be convinced that a 5 year deal for a player already halfway through his prime is a good idea. Given the amount of support he has around here, I expected that someone would have been able to articulate what on-ice skills led to this contract. I'm not looking for stats or numbers, because anyone can copy and paste those from nhl.com, but rather an actual analysis of why in 3, 4 or 5 years RJ will be worth 4.5 million, because I just don't see it.

Your point about veteran leadership is a good one, and that is valuable, especially from someone who has been with the organization for a significant period of time. Much more valuable than the "veteran-leadership" type one-year deals and trades we've seen made the last few years. Honestly, I just don't see this team being in a position to make use of said veteran leadership in that time frame. I'd love to be wrong about that though.

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09-22-2011, 02:44 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Given that RJ is likely to be able to contribute to the team as a whole even if his skills start to deteriorate, I don't think it's as much of an issue as you suggest. Unless, of course, none of that actually counts and we were absolutely right to dump guys like Peca and Malhotra because there was more talent elsewhere.



I seem to recall Shelley's last career year being six years ago, when he scored 10 points.

RJ's was last year, for 57 points.
Peca, yes. Manny, no.

You completely missed the point w.r.t Umberger and Shelley, which is downright hilarious. Fans see a good teammate, a hard worker and an all around good guy. This makes them tend to forget the negative aspects of said player (granted there's a lot more of those with Jody than with RJ).

It was a comparison of their relationship with fans. Tell me you can't see people begging for us to bring RJ in as a color commentator?

Let me say that I love having RJ on this team, and I love his production. I don't love his contract.

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09-22-2011, 02:45 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
Peca, yes. Manny, no.

You completely missed the point w.r.t Umberger and Shelley, which is downright hilarious. Fans see a good teammate, a hard worker and an all around good guy. This makes them tend to forget the negative aspects of said player (granted there's a lot more of those with Jody than with RJ).

It was a comparison of their relationship with fans. Tell me you can't see people begging for us to bring RJ in as a color commentator?

Let me say that I love having RJ on this team, and I love his production. I don't love his contract.
There are no negatives with RJ Umberger, he is the heart and soul, and he puts up the points. He's the Jackets MVP.

If we want to talk about bad extensions, I'll go bump the Tyutin thread.

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09-22-2011, 02:49 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
I'm pretty sure I can count the number of non-positive posts re: RJU without taking off my shoes.

Everybody loves RJ, that's great, but it seems that everyone loves him because he plays hard and puts up points. However I can't see his style or level of play being sustainable past his early 30's. There's no elite level skill for him to fall back on once injuries and age take their toll, and they will.

I've yet to be convinced that a 5 year deal for a player already halfway through his prime is a good idea. Given the amount of support he has around here, I expected that someone would have been able to articulate what on-ice skills led to this contract. I'm not looking for stats or numbers, because anyone can copy and paste those from nhl.com, but rather an actual analysis of why in 3, 4 or 5 years RJ will be worth 4.5 million, because I just don't see it.

Your point about veteran leadership is a good one, and that is valuable, especially from someone who has been with the organization for a significant period of time. Much more valuable than the "veteran-leadership" type one-year deals and trades we've seen made the last few years. Honestly, I just don't see this team being in a position to make use of said veteran leadership in that time frame. I'd love to be wrong about that though.
Why even be a fan then? If you truly believe that this team is not going to win anytime in the next 5 years why not find something else to do with your time? I know I would.

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09-22-2011, 02:54 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
Given the amount of support he has around here, I expected that someone would have been able to articulate what on-ice skills led to this contract. I'm not looking for stats or numbers, because anyone can copy and paste those from nhl.com, but rather an actual analysis of why in 3, 4 or 5 years RJ will be worth 4.5 million, because I just don't see it.
Because he's the Chuck Norris of the CBJ.

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09-22-2011, 02:56 PM
  #66
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I guess 35 is the new 40 in the NHL



And people think I'm insulting.

May I just say that I'm not a sheep and I find nothing concerning here. Sure he may become injury prone but I'm not jumping off ledges with fright because of his play style and how it might impact his health. This is a reactionary position that you really can't prove will come to pass. You can't even suggest that it's a 50/50 chance without skewing data to favor your position. It's a risk, but far from a certainty.
It is, because the salary cap and the post-lockout rules enforcement has made the game younger and faster.

I wouldn't consider you a sheep, or most posters here. However there is a large quantity of fans that do fit the description, and most are trading their 45 jerseys for 18 jerseys.

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09-22-2011, 02:59 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
You completely missed the point w.r.t Umberger and Shelley, which is downright hilarious. Fans see a good teammate, a hard worker and an all around good guy. This makes them tend to forget the negative aspects of said player (granted there's a lot more of those with Jody than with RJ).
No, I dismissed it, which is not the same thing. If folks are going to have an obsessive fixation with a player - and they will, no matter how much you cry about it - better that it be a player who does so much more for the team.

I get not liking the Umberger Fan Club, but let's not claim his market value should be lower 'cause it comes with a fanbase you dislike.

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09-22-2011, 03:00 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
There are no negatives with RJ Umberger, he is the heart and soul, and he puts up the points. He's the Jackets MVP.

If we want to talk about bad extensions, I'll go bump the Tyutin thread.
...hon, I know you mean well, but you really aren't helping.

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09-22-2011, 03:02 PM
  #69
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Why even be a fan then? If you truly believe that this team is not going to win anytime in the next 5 years why not find something else to do with your time? I know I would.
I'm not really sure, ask a Browns/Bengals fan, maybe they'll be able to explain. Maybe I just like going to hockey games, and cheering for my hometown team. I didn't realize that disillusioned dreams of the Stanley Cup were a requirement of fandom.

I have hope that the team will be good, but there are issues that have to be straightened out before the team can be expected to do anything of significance.

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Because he's the Chuck Norris of the CBJ.

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09-22-2011, 03:12 PM
  #70
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I've been sheepish, from time to time, but I'm not the biggest RJ fanboy around. Still:

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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post
Everybody loves RJ, that's great, but it seems that everyone loves him because he plays hard and puts up points.
Ummmm, yeah.

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However I can't see his style or level of play being sustainable past his early 30's. There's no elite level skill for him to fall back on once injuries and age take their toll, and they will.
There are also no elite skills to lose to age and injuries, either.

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09-22-2011, 03:22 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
...hon, I know you mean well, but you really aren't helping.
Let the man speak for himself, he has a right to his opinions just as you and I do.

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No, I dismissed it, which is not the same thing. If folks are going to have an obsessive fixation with a player - and they will, no matter how much you cry about it - better that it be a player who does so much more for the team.

I get not liking the Umberger Fan Club, but let's not claim his market value should be lower 'cause it comes with a fanbase you dislike.
Your post read as if you missed the point. Maybe it was the stats you posted, because obviously there is no point of comparison on-ice between RJU and Shelley, except that they've both worn CBJ and Philly jerseys.

It's also not about the Umberger Fan Club, it's about the Umberger contract. It's too much money and too many years for what he brings on the ice. I've yet to see a defense for the contract that doesn't include past points scored or that he's a heart-and-soul guy.

I understand he scored 57 points last year just fine, Viq'. I also understand he got paid handsomely for it, at a salary comparable to his new contract numbers too. So it seems to indicate that Scott Howson thinks he will continue to perform at a similar level. Based on support of the contract, so do you and others. I disagree.

Scott Howson doesn't need to explain his signings, especially to me, if they aren't the right ones, he'll lose his job. I'm waiting on a member of the Umberger Fan Club to actually respond with an articulate analysis of why they support the contract. Not just "OMG he put up points last year you dummy!" or how he's a heart-and-soul guy.

My favorite thing I read post contract announcement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @wyshynski
PD reader Ryan on Umberger: "Not sure how they've managed to get his corpse on the ice since he was brutally murdered by Brian Campbell."

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09-22-2011, 03:33 PM
  #72
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I've been sheepish, from time to time, but I'm not the biggest RJ fanboy around. Still:



Ummmm, yeah.


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There are also no elite skills to lose to age and injuries, either.
But there isn't an elite skill to extend the career life. It's hard to be a heart-and-soul guy while alternating between the press box and the trainers table. As RJ slows down, I worry about lower goal totals because he won't be in the right place and the right time nearly as often. I also worry about how that will effect his penalty killing and his effectiveness against top line players, some of whom will be 10-15 years younger than him with much more spring in their steps.

The comparison I keep coming up with for the rest of his career arc is a less talented Chris Drury, who was one of my favorite players during his Colorado days.

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09-22-2011, 03:54 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Happy Pony View Post




But there isn't an elite skill to extend the career life. It's hard to be a heart-and-soul guy while alternating between the press box and the trainers table. As RJ slows down, I worry about lower goal totals because he won't be in the right place and the right time nearly as often. I also worry about how that will effect his penalty killing and his effectiveness against top line players, some of whom will be 10-15 years younger than him with much more spring in their steps.

The comparison I keep coming up with for the rest of his career arc is a less talented Chris Drury, who was one of my favorite players during his Colorado days.
Drury didn't really tumble until he was 33 (34 during the offseason). Which is about when RJ's contract ends (he turns 34 in the May at the end of his final contracted year). Plus, RJ's bigger and has been more durable (recall the whole "hasn't missed a game as a Blue Jacket" bit). I wouldn't be too worried.

(That and RJ isn't being paid anything near what Drury was paid, but that's kind of unrelated to the point. )

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09-22-2011, 03:57 PM
  #74
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The comparison I keep coming up with for the rest of his career arc is a less talented Chris Drury, who was one of my favorite players during his Colorado days.
I don't think that's an unfair comparison. Drury retired at 35, after two years of diminished play. Prior to that, his numbers were very similar to RJ's recent numbers. Will Umberger drop off as precipitously when he reaches the same age? You think, yes; others, including team management, think not.

Will RJ's $4.6 mil. be as burdensome to the Jackets at that time as Drury's salary was perceived to be to the Rags? With inflation and rising salaries, I doubt it. Your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else's, so we'll have to wait to see who had a better guess at the future.

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09-22-2011, 04:19 PM
  #75
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Dear Mr. Sad Pony

Here is my question for you:

Do you get a raise at work because you have great skills but nothing to show for it; over the guy who might not have the great writing, photoshop, tech savvy but just gets the job done?

People point to his stats because that is the measureable thing that contracts are probably 70% based from. The other 30% coming from age, durability, and attitude.

RJ is 29 and his contract will be up when hes 35. While that might sound "old" in hockey lifespan, let me remind you that he has the current Iron man title in Columbus and hasn't missed a game in 3 years. Also that he is coming off of his best year statistically yet. There is no reason to believe that with a better team RJ can't put up 60+ points and increase his stats when he has better linemates and our PP is stronger.

Stop asking for contract analysis based on skills. RJ is one of the most positionally sound players on the ice at all times. Rarely is he not in the proper position. Which is why he is on the first unit PP, PK, and generates quality scoring chances for himself. So he doesn't dangle like Zherdev...what kind of contract should he have deserved since his skills are so high quality?

You're just being a whiney brat who wants to take statistics away from an argument that is structured around them.

Here's one for the Jury: Tell me how the defendent is guilty - you just aren't allowed to use exhibit A or B. ..... See! I told you that you had no grounds for conviction!

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