HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Tomáš Hyka (returned to his junior club, Gatineau, Sept. 22)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-22-2011, 02:21 PM
  #101
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Didn't intend to write it off entirely.

Just mean't it's not THE issue. I was speaking directly to the CBA misunderstanding(s).
See, I think they're kind of one in the same. Both are examples of this front office's lack of attention to detail.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:23 PM
  #102
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
See, I think they're kind of one in the same. Both are examples of this front office's lack of attention to detail.
I can appreciate that. They'd both fall under the same larger umbrella.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:23 PM
  #103
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,013
vCash: 500
That quote really makes their approach to the draft look entirely unprofessional. Forgot about him? Really?

Then, how do you make the jump from forgetting him and then remembering him at the last moment, only to go after someone else rated way lower on the board? It sounds like no one was prepared and they don't take the draft seriously beyond the early rounds

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:24 PM
  #104
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yeah its not like anyone gets overhyped

Matt Read
Jason Akeson

2 players some have penciled into the top 6.
By who?

The most I've seen is people penciling them in as the NINTH forward.

1 - Giroux

2 - Briere

3 - vanRiemsdyk

4 - Jagr

5 - Voracek

6- Hartnell

Oops. No number 9 there. Shall we keep going?

7 - Simmonds

8 - Schenn

9! - Read/Nodl/Wellwood/Akeson/whoever/whatever

There we go.

Not once have I ever seen any of those forwards penciled into the "top 6."

We don't really run a top 6 anyway, but if anyone thought that any of those listed at 9 are part of our best 6 forwards, they're pretty dumb.

That said, Hyka is not even better than them. He's not ready for NHL let alone AHL. He did some flashy things. He's a neat prospect. Hopefully we draft him next year.

Still, he should not be mentioned in the same breath as our other NHL-ready prospects. That, my friend, is what I mean by hype. We have a ton of NHL-ready kids. Why is everyone so over-infatuated with Hyka suddenly?

I think people care a lot more about Holmgren screwing up than Hyka himself honestly.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:26 PM
  #105
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
That quote really makes their approach to the draft look entirely unprofessional. Forgot about him? Really?

Then, how do you make the jump from forgetting him and then remembering him at the last moment, only to go after someone else rated way lower on the board? It sounds like no one was prepared and they don't take the draft seriously beyond the early rounds
Let's all just be thankful they didn't forget about Couturier when he fell to us.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:28 PM
  #106
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
That quote really makes their approach to the draft look entirely unprofessional. Forgot about him? Really?

Then, how do you make the jump from forgetting him and then remembering him at the last moment, only to go after someone else rated way lower on the board? It sounds like no one was prepared and they don't take the draft seriously beyond the early rounds
Like I said, I can honestly believe a front office CBA screw up, especially one the organization admits.

I can't however just believe that's how the draft went. I think they thought there might have been some issue with drafting Hyka, i.e. he was a risk never to play in NA.

For them to just conveniently "forget" him and then "remember" him in the 7th and then just not draft him all together just reeks of a lie.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:32 PM
  #107
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Like I said, I can honestly believe a front office CBA screw up, especially one the organization admits.

I can't however just believe that's how the draft went. I think they thought there might have been some issue with drafting Hyka, i.e. he was a risk never to play in NA.

For them to just conveniently "forget" him and then "remember" him in the 7th and then just not draft him all together just reeks of a lie.
Why lie to make yourself look worse? Doesn't stack up.

Homer defenders just don't want to admit just how scatterbrained that ship is really run

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:33 PM
  #108
Wud
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 223
vCash: 500
People take whatever Holmgren says at face value and then call for his head.

Mr. Snyder will get right on that for you.

Wud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:35 PM
  #109
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wud View Post
People take whatever Holmgren says at face value and then call for his head.

Mr. Snyder will get right on that for you.
Actually, most people think Homer is full of ****, too. These quotes, however, are not from Holmgren.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:37 PM
  #110
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Why lie to make yourself look worse? Doesn't stack up.

Homer defenders just don't want to admit just how scatterbrained that ship is really run
Yeah, generally people lie to make themselves look better. The correct "lie" in this case is that the team had qualms about drafting him and didn't want to use a pick on him, but were happy to have him in camp. That, however, doesn't really hold up as he was clearly draft eligible, and the fact that he was coming over to the CHL suggests he was more than interested in playing in North America.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:43 PM
  #111
Wud
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 223
vCash: 500
Yeah, see I just don't understand being upset over the mis-management of some mid-level prospect at best. I'm 10x more upset over Walker and Shelley, and even that is pretty small compared to the big picture.

Wud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:49 PM
  #112
GentlemanOfLeisure
Ride Space Mountain
 
GentlemanOfLeisure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: East Windsor NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,963
vCash: 500
I'm a Devils fan but even I think Holmgren is a very good GM. He pretty much invented the trading for an upcoming FA's negotiating rights. Without that you may not have gotten Hartnell or Timmonen.

GentlemanOfLeisure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:52 PM
  #113
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wud View Post
Yeah, see I just don't understand being upset over the mis-management of some mid-level prospect at best. I'm 10x more upset over Walker and Shelley, and even that is pretty small compared to the big picture.
Again, it's a pattern of being inept. Time and time again they fail to comprehend some aspect of the CBA.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 02:57 PM
  #114
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
That quote really makes their approach to the draft look entirely unprofessional. Forgot about him? Really?

Then, how do you make the jump from forgetting him and then remembering him at the last moment, only to go after someone else rated way lower on the board? It sounds like no one was prepared and they don't take the draft seriously beyond the early rounds
They definitely don't take it seriously when they waste picks on the likes of Klotz and Mathers.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 03:00 PM
  #115
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
They definitely don't take it seriously when they waste picks on the likes of Klotz and Mathers.
I'm not sure that suggests they don't take it seriously. What it definitely suggests is that their philosophy is bizarre to say the least.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 03:13 PM
  #116
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,254
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yeah, generally people lie to make themselves look better. The correct "lie" in this case is that the team had qualms about drafting him and didn't want to use a pick on him, but were happy to have him in camp. That, however, doesn't really hold up as he was clearly draft eligible, and the fact that he was coming over to the CHL suggests he was more than interested in playing in North America.
Saying they forgot about him could mean many things. It could mean, quite literally that they forgot about him. But it could also mean that in the course of the NHL draft, which is very hectic just from an outsider's perspective of watching and probably more hectic than any of us actually realize, other player's names came up that they liked more than him so he kept falling down the board and was essentially "forgotten" about. It looks like in the seventh round when they "remembered" him, they made the mistake about the free agent signing and went with Mathers. Now I'm not saying that is exactly what happened, but it seems equally as possible as him just being "forgotten" about.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 03:18 PM
  #117
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Saying they forgot about him could mean many things. It could mean, quite literally that they forgot about him. But it could also mean that in the course of the NHL draft, which is very hectic just from an outsider's perspective of watching and probably more hectic than any of us actually realize, other player's names came up that they liked more than him so he kept falling down the board and was essentially "forgotten" about. It looks like in the seventh round when they "remembered" him, they made the mistake about the free agent signing and went with Mathers. Now I'm not saying that is exactly what happened, but it seems equally as possible as him just being "forgotten" about.
But even still, Jester's "correct lie" still applies in your scenario.

It's stupid to say you "forgot". You should say something like "we had him high on our boards but there were other guys we had higher."

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 03:29 PM
  #118
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,254
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
But even still, Jester's "correct lie" still applies in your scenario.

It's stupid to say you "forgot". You should say something like "we had him high on our boards but there were other guys we had higher."
Eh, I don't think this "lie" is any worse than saying a different "lie." I mean, if my scenario is what happened, saying he was forgotten about amounts to the same. He could have said a lot of things in this situation, truth or otherwise.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 03:30 PM
  #119
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
But even still, Jester's "correct lie" still applies in your scenario.

It's stupid to say you "forgot". You should say something like "we had him high on our boards but there were other guys we had higher."
Yeah... you can tell the truth in that case.

We liked other players better, but were interested to have him in camp.

That being said, if you have someone on your board -- which they clearly did -- there's no excuse to "forget" about him.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 03:32 PM
  #120
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Eh, I don't think this "lie" is any worse than saying a different "lie." I mean, if my scenario is what happened, saying he was forgotten about amounts to the same. He could have said a lot of things in this situation, truth or otherwise.
Dude, the amateur scouting departments job is to manage the draft. That's LITERALLY all they're paid to worry about.

They should not be forgetting about players. Again, it's attention to detail and a problem that is on display. Assuming that they are telling the truth about forgetting he was still available.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 03:40 PM
  #121
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,254
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Dude, the amateur scouting departments job is to manage the draft. That's LITERALLY all they're paid to worry about.

They should not be forgetting about players. Again, it's attention to detail and a problem that on display. Assuming that they are telling the truth about forgetting he was still available.
I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I'm saying that Homer's quote of "forgetting" about him could simply mean that other players on the board or other needs stood out more during the draft and he was "forgotten" about. Not like someone took his name down and everyone suddenly forgot he existed. In their 4-6 rounds they took Sullentrop, Placek, and Noebles. Cousins in the Third. It's possible that he was higher than Sullentrop, Placek, and Noebles in the third round. Maybe Sullentrop they didn't think would be there and they drafted him. Then the next round they decided that Noebles was really a better player. Placek too. Then in the seventh round they made the mistake about signing him. Perhaps that is what Homer meant when he said the draft takes different directions and people get forgotten about. Of course not. That scenario is absurd. The only possible scenario is that the Flyers organization are a bunch of bumbling idiots. No way opinions could change or other people could be available. IT HAS TO BE THAT THEY ARE STUPID.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 03:51 PM
  #122
Wud
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Again, it's a pattern of being inept. Time and time again they fail to comprehend some aspect of the CBA.
Whatever, I guess you're entitled to drive yourself crazy over spilled milk.

Wud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 03:56 PM
  #123
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I'm saying that Homer's quote of "forgetting" about him could simply mean that other players on the board or other needs stood out more during the draft and he was "forgotten" about. Not like someone took his name down and everyone suddenly forgot he existed. In their 4-6 rounds they took Sullentrop, Placek, and Noebles. Cousins in the Third. It's possible that he was higher than Sullentrop, Placek, and Noebles in the third round. Maybe Sullentrop they didn't think would be there and they drafted him. Then the next round they decided that Noebles was really a better player. Placek too. Then in the seventh round they made the mistake about signing him. Perhaps that is what Homer meant when he said the draft takes different directions and people get forgotten about. Of course not. That scenario is absurd. The only possible scenario is that the Flyers organization are a bunch of bumbling idiots. No way opinions could change or other people could be available. IT HAS TO BE THAT THEY ARE STUPID.
You're really reaching with your definition of forgot

BringBackStevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 04:01 PM
  #124
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,254
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
You're really reaching with your definition of forgot
Haha how is that reaching? He said the draft takes different directions and guys get forgotten about. If that doesn't mean what I said, what would he have had to say to make my scenario reasonable?

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 04:06 PM
  #125
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I'm saying that Homer's quote of "forgetting" about him could simply mean that other players on the board or other needs stood out more during the draft and he was "forgotten" about. Not like someone took his name down and everyone suddenly forgot he existed. In their 4-6 rounds they took Sullentrop, Placek, and Noebles. Cousins in the Third. It's possible that he was higher than Sullentrop, Placek, and Noebles in the third round. Maybe Sullentrop they didn't think would be there and they drafted him. Then the next round they decided that Noebles was really a better player. Placek too. Then in the seventh round they made the mistake about signing him. Perhaps that is what Homer meant when he said the draft takes different directions and people get forgotten about. Of course not. That scenario is absurd. The only possible scenario is that the Flyers organization are a bunch of bumbling idiots. No way opinions could change or other people could be available. IT HAS TO BE THAT THEY ARE STUPID.
Do you really not recognize the intellectual hoola hoops you are jumping through to defend this... and maybe, just maybe, you should consider Occam's Razor?

And, btw, this wasn't homer, but an anonymous Flyers executive talking about this.

At the same time, as noted, you are essentially re-defining the meaning of the word "forgotten." If they liked other players betters, there's is NO REASON to not say that. Literally none.

However, once again, we need to go back and dwell on the fact that you just don't bother to read the actual crap that you're talking about. Again, to the article and the source and what he said:

Quote:
"By the time we realized he was still on the board it was the seventh round and we were debating between him and a big and tough kid (Derek Mathers) and we decided to draft the tough kid hoping we could get Hyka into camp as an undrafted kid. It worked out for us."
I look forward to your redefinition of how we should interpret "by the time we realized."

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.