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Old
09-23-2011, 01:33 AM
  #76
XtremeofParanoia
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Saw this thread and thought I'd ask, what do Flyers fans expect Schenn to put up for numbers assuming he gets the majority of his minutes on the 3rd line? Does he see any time on the PP? If so, which unit?

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09-23-2011, 01:41 AM
  #77
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Even after all this, I'm still not sold on Read.

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09-23-2011, 02:43 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Even after all this, I'm still not sold on Read.
You sound like Travis on BSH. Even when a prospect starts to prove themselves you still shrug it off.

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09-23-2011, 02:49 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
You sound like Travis on BSH. Even when a prospect starts to prove themselves you still shrug it off.
Travis? BSH? It might be because I'd still love to have Couturier on the team.

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09-23-2011, 03:43 AM
  #80
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Regular season line-up

JVR - Giroux - Voracek.
This one is a given. You keep the three breakout* players on one line. All young guys and hopefully Voracek develops the same chemistry with Giroux as JVR did. Voracek is looking for a payday, so i'd imagine with what he has shown in the preseason that we are going to see a special year from him with his idol playing on the other line.

Jagr - Briere - Hartnell
Put the old man line together. Same as above, We all hope that Jagr will do a better job than leino did on this line. Which would be great for the flyers. 65+ points , Briere 30 goals.

Read(Couturier) - Schenn - Simmonds
I'm not against C making the team. I want him to do it, but so far Read has proven that he looks ready to take the next step while Couturier is being bullied off the puck. He needs weight, and lots of it. My guess is that the flyers hold onto Couturier for 18 games. 9 played, 9 benched to make his time here longer. Subbing him in and out of the line-up with Matt Read. That way he gets a good taste of NHL action, it gives him time to see exactly what is needed and it gives him NHL level fitness programs.

Talbot - Betts - Nodl
Sestito

Fourth line looks pretty darn good from here. Sestito makes the perfect 13th forward who can sub in. He has underrated hands and can play a roll on the top 3 lines for a short period of time just as nodl did. If Betts shoulder goes then I would want Rinaldo as the first call up rolling the line of Sestito - Talbot - Nodl.

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Gustaffson
Coburn - Mezaros
Lilja

It's sink or swim time for Coburn. If he cannot hack being away from Timonen then we have no use for him on this team. With Mezaros he gets our best defenseman from last year, so it shouldn't dent his performance too much. For kimmo he gets the youngster. Someone that looks NHL ready, and needs to take the next step. He looks like a carbon copy of kimmo. What better partner to have.

Bobrovsky - starter
Bryz - backup

Just trollin on by

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09-23-2011, 06:43 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Regular season line-up

JVR - Giroux - Voracek.
This one is a given. You keep the three breakout* players on one line. All young guys and hopefully Voracek develops the same chemistry with Giroux as JVR did. Voracek is looking for a payday, so i'd imagine with what he has shown in the preseason that we are going to see a special year from him with his idol playing on the other line.

Jagr - Briere - Hartnell
Put the old man line together. Same as above, We all hope that Jagr will do a better job than leino did on this line. Which would be great for the flyers. 65+ points , Briere 30 goals.

Read(Couturier) - Schenn - Simmonds
I'm not against C making the team. I want him to do it, but so far Read has proven that he looks ready to take the next step while Couturier is being bullied off the puck. He needs weight, and lots of it. My guess is that the flyers hold onto Couturier for 18 games. 9 played, 9 benched to make his time here longer. Subbing him in and out of the line-up with Matt Read. That way he gets a good taste of NHL action, it gives him time to see exactly what is needed and it gives him NHL level fitness programs.

Talbot - Betts - Nodl
Sestito

Fourth line looks pretty darn good from here. Sestito makes the perfect 13th forward who can sub in. He has underrated hands and can play a roll on the top 3 lines for a short period of time just as nodl did. If Betts shoulder goes then I would want Rinaldo as the first call up rolling the line of Sestito - Talbot - Nodl.

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Gustaffson
Coburn - Mezaros
Lilja

It's sink or swim time for Coburn. If he cannot hack being away from Timonen then we have no use for him on this team. With Mezaros he gets our best defenseman from last year, so it shouldn't dent his performance too much. For kimmo he gets the youngster. Someone that looks NHL ready, and needs to take the next step. He looks like a carbon copy of kimmo. What better partner to have.

Bobrovsky - starter
Bryz - backup

Just trollin on by
It's not sink or swim time for Coburn. He showed himself to be a very solid defensive defenseman last year. It's a mistake to break up that pairing with Timonen. The statement that if he can't hack being away from Timonen then we have no use for him, makes zero sense. partners can develop chemistry with each other, and that goes towards making a good tandem.

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09-23-2011, 09:29 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I'm amazed more and more when I read posters saying they want to trade a solid young player with upside in Nodl, so they can put a player that people know nothing about, in Sestito in the lineup. The guy has played all of about 90 minutes of NHL Hockey in his life. But let's trade a solid young two way forward, who can forecheck, check defensively, kill penalties, and can play as a support player on about any line. Mind boggling
Yeah, I would love it if Wellwood, Sestito, Rinaldo and Kalinski somehow showed that they deserve to be playing in the NHL full time. Then we could move guys like Shelley, Betts and Nödl and we'd actually be able to bank cap space.

I'm not going to count on it to happen though, and the same goes for our Phantoms with a larger cap hit as well.

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09-23-2011, 11:48 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
It's not sink or swim time for Coburn. He showed himself to be a very solid defensive defenseman last year. It's a mistake to break up that pairing with Timonen. The statement that if he can't hack being away from Timonen then we have no use for him, makes zero sense. partners can develop chemistry with each other, and that goes towards making a good tandem.
Lol. So what happens when it comes to re-signing Coburn and we no longer have Timonen. It's time to see what Coburn can do as an equal defensive partner. What do we do?

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09-23-2011, 11:54 AM
  #84
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Um, you want to burn a year of couturier's contract so he can be scratched for 9 games? Asinine.

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09-23-2011, 12:06 PM
  #85
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Um, you want to burn a year of couturier's contract so he can be scratched for 9 games? Asinine.
The whole point of being scratched was that it doesn't use up 9 games.

Does it still count if the player doesn't actually play in the game.

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09-23-2011, 12:41 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by XtremeofParanoia View Post
Saw this thread and thought I'd ask, what do Flyers fans expect Schenn to put up for numbers assuming he gets the majority of his minutes on the 3rd line? Does he see any time on the PP? If so, which unit?
Anything under 40 points to me would be disappointing. 55 or more would be a delightful surprise.

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09-23-2011, 12:48 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Lol. So what happens when it comes to re-signing Coburn and we no longer have Timonen. It's time to see what Coburn can do as an equal defensive partner. What do we do?
Coburn is an equal defense partner. You resign Coburn and when Timonen retires, Coburn gets a new partner.

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09-23-2011, 12:52 PM
  #88
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Coburn is an equal defense partner. You resign Coburn and when Timonen retires, Coburn gets a new partner.
No he isn't outside of the play-offs. Coburn hasn't played well away from Timonen.

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09-23-2011, 12:53 PM
  #89
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Anything under 40 points to me would be disappointing. 55 or more would be a delightful surprise.
Really?
Mike Richards 34
Jeff Carter 42
Claude Giroux 27 (only 42 games though)
JvR 35

That's how many points our previous highly touted rookies has mustered. If Schenn has a 15-15-30 season while holding his own defensively I'll be satisfied. More than that is a bonus for me.

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09-23-2011, 12:55 PM
  #90
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I think Schenn will have higher expectations due to his age, the media hype around him and the dominating performances he put in during the world juniors.

anything from 40-60 points I think. Especially after some of his pre-season performances

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09-23-2011, 12:59 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
No he isn't outside of the play-offs. Coburn hasn't played well away from Timonen.
Doesn't mean he can't play well away from Timonen. Defenseman take longer to develop. Coburn is just coming into his prime. You don't break up a solid pairing for the reasons you've given.

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09-23-2011, 01:02 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I think Schenn will have higher expectations due to his age, the media hype around him and the dominating performances he put in during the world juniors.

anything from 40-60 points I think. Especially after some of his pre-season performances
He's the same age as the rest of them were when they had their rookie seasons. What has he done in these pre-season games that makes you think that he will have a 60-point season?

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09-23-2011, 01:04 PM
  #93
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No, you break up the pairing so that a developing defenseman in gus has someone to learn from, and that his rookie mistakes can be covered somewhat.

Coburn is 26 and will be 27 before the season is over. If he can't play with anything other than a star defenseman at this point then I doubt that he ever will.

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09-23-2011, 01:07 PM
  #94
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My main position battles are:

Vorachek vs Simmonds for the second and third line duties

Nodl vs Read for the third line

Shelley vs Holmstrom vs Sestito for the fourth line and the 13th forward spot

Gustafsson vs Bartulis for the 3rd pairing or 7th d spot

I currently am giving the edge to Vorachek, Read, Holmstrom, Sestito, and Bartulis.

Vorachek has more offensive skill then Simmonds, though Simmonds is a rock and I am excited about watching him play.

Read has been IMPRESSIVE and if given a shot on the third line he could be an impact player.

Holmstrom is the speed for against the smaller teams and Sestito is the beef for against the more physical teams.

Bartulis has looked better on defense than Gustafsson.
Sure Gusty has the offensive skill, but his defense seemed lacking. Gusty should play in a top 4 role if called up so he would get more playing time and a better chance to improve on his positioning/defensive game.

My lines are:

Hartnell, Briere, Jagr
JVR, Giroux, Vorachek
Read, Schenn, Simmonds
Holmstrom/Betts/Talbot
Sestito

Pronger/Carle
Kimmo/Mez
Coburn/Lilja
Bartulis
Eh really? I have thought Bartulis has had a subpar preseason so far while Gustafsson has had a pretty good one. I was talking with Bill Meltzer and he agrees also. To each their own though.

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09-23-2011, 01:08 PM
  #95
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He's the same age as the rest of them were when they had their rookie seasons. What has he done in these pre-season games that makes you think that he will have a 60-point season?
He's been defensively responsible in the pre-season and looked impressive on the PK. We all know that lavy likes the first part in a player and tends to reward players who defend strongly.

He's also shown glimmers of the offensive ability that he has and appears to be developing a good chemistry with Simmonds. He also looks absolutely dominant in the face-off circle, which can help with point production. I think the main thing is that he doesn't look out of place.

Last year in the 8 games he played for the kings he looked very good offensively but couldn't bury the puck. He was really snakebitten. Asking around kings fans, he was in the right position so many times to score but missed the net. Probably through nerves and a bit of a cold streak.

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09-23-2011, 01:20 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
He's been defensively responsible in the pre-season and looked impressive on the PK. We all know that lavy likes the first part in a player and tends to reward players who defend strongly.

He's also shown glimmers of the offensive ability that he has and appears to be developing a good chemistry with Simmonds. He also looks absolutely dominant in the face-off circle, which can help with point production. I think the main thing is that he doesn't look out of place.

Last year in the 8 games he played for the kings he looked very good offensively but couldn't bury the puck. He was really snakebitten. Asking around kings fans, he was in the right position so many times to score but missed the net. Probably through nerves and a bit of a cold streak.
I agree that he looks solid defensively so far, and his work in the face-off circle so far is really promising. To go from that to a 60-point season is a big leap however. I mean, with the way our forwards are set up, there's a lot that points towards Schenn being used on the pk rather than the pp.

JvR, Roo, Brière, Hartnell, Voracek, Jagr, Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Mes are the most likely people on our top pp units I would say and then you have Simmonds, Schenn, Read if he makes it, Gustafsson if he makes it, maybe even Coburn. Point is, Schenn most likely won't see much pp time unless there are some injuries to our top 6 forwards, so to expect really strong numbers from him isn't really fair imo. Even if he will see a lot of pp time, 60 pts would be quite a lot to ask from him.

Jeff Skinner had 63 pts last year, and over 3 minutes per game on the pp

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09-23-2011, 01:27 PM
  #97
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While I agree that it would be a really big surprise to see him hit 60 points I didn't want to put it lower, Richards and Carter hit 35 and 40 points in their rookie years while playing on very limited time and I don't think that they had much PP time either? (I really can't remember, they might have). JVR managed 35 in his rookie season when he completely fell apart in the second half of the season. I think he's a relativity good comparison.

So I think 50 points isn't out of the question, but it would be difficult. I would be really excited to see him get 45+.

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09-23-2011, 01:32 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
No, you break up the pairing so that a developing defenseman in gus has someone to learn from, and that his rookie mistakes can be covered somewhat.

Coburn is 26 and will be 27 before the season is over. If he can't play with anything other than a star defenseman at this point then I doubt that he ever will.
A young defenseman can learn just as well from a lesser pair. Your going to play Timonen a lot of minutes. It's not fair to expect Gustafsson to do the same. You play him in a lesser role on a 3rd pair and let him learn there. Just like countless of other young defenseman have done.

For some reason you have this opinion that Coburn can't play with anyone but Timonen. I think he can. But I don't see the need to break up an effective pairing.

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09-23-2011, 01:38 PM
  #99
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A young defenseman can learn just as well from a lesser pair. Your going to play Timonen a lot of minutes. It's not fair to expect Gustafsson to do the same. You play him in a lesser role on a 3rd pair and let him learn there. Just like countless of other young defenseman have done.

For some reason you have this opinion that Coburn can't play with anyone but Timonen. I think he can. But I don't see the need to break up an effective pairing.
I don't know where to find the stats, But when Coburn is away from Timonen he is a train wreck.

Also, when Coburn was a young developing defenseman, who do you think he was partnered with lol.

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09-23-2011, 01:38 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
While I agree that it would be a really big surprise to see him hit 60 points I didn't want to put it lower, Richards and Carter hit 35 and 40 points in their rookie years while playing on very limited time and I don't think that they had much PP time either? (I really can't remember, they might have). JVR managed 35 in his rookie season when he completely fell apart in the second half of the season. I think he's a relativity good comparison.

So I think 50 points isn't out of the question, but it would be difficult. I would be really excited to see him get 45+.
Richards had 15.22 toi/g and 1.46 pptoi/g (also saw 2.31 shtoi/g)
Carter 12.04, 2.49
Giroux 15.09, 1.23
JvR 12.57, 1.24

I think that Richards' will be the numbers that will resemble Schenn's the most, with a little less on both pp and sh toi.


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