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Jody Shelley has been suspended 10 games (5 preseason and 5 regular season)

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09-22-2011, 10:39 PM
  #26
BernieParent
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Thank you, Mr. Shanahan, for teeing up Shelley like a driving range ball. Now Holmgren just has to drive it straight past the 300 yd marker to Adirondack! It's just too easy a decision to make: an overabundance of talent, a meathead who just drew himself into the textbook on how not to hit an opponent, and some ready cap relief.



Connect the dots, Mr. Holmgren! We know you can!

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09-22-2011, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I hope the NHL remains consistent with the new crew of disciplinarians. I won't hold my breath, though.

The suspension is perfectly acceptable, given what Shelley did. Unfortunately, history has dictated that a Flyer doing something dumb versus a Canadian team receives a far greater punishment than the norm.

The next blind side hit from behind better result in a suspension of at least 5 games. Again, I won't hold my breath.
That is absolute effin nonsense.

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09-22-2011, 11:33 PM
  #28
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That is absolute effin nonsense.
What do you mean nonsense?

The NHL singled out the Steve Downie hit and the Jesse Boulerice cross-check as punishments to discourage plays that should not be part of the game... and subsequently did not punish other offenders with similar long term suspensions. Both plays happened against Canadian teams and, in my opinion, were looked at in greater detail and received harsher punishment because the Canadian media garnered the plays more attention.

The Flyers were suspended three other times that season, none longer than three games... and all more dangerous than Downie's hit. All three suspensions happened to be versus American teams and, therefore, weren't as scrutinized by the media.

I hope Shanny and his crew weren't playing nice for the Canadian media and will treat similar incidents with similar strong sentences. We won't know until the next one, though.

I don't believe the NHL has a bias against the Flyers; I just want to see consistency.

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09-22-2011, 11:36 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
What do you mean nonsense?

The NHL singled out the Steve Downie hit and the Jesse Boulerice cross-check as punishments to discourage plays that should not be part of the game... and subsequently did not punish other offenders with similar long term suspensions. Both plays happened against Canadian teams and, in my opinion, were looked at in greater detail and received harsher punishment because the Canadian media garnered the plays more attention.

The Flyers were suspended three other times that season, none longer than three games... and all more dangerous than Downie's hit. All three suspensions happened to be versus American teams and, therefore, weren't as scrutinized by the media.

I hope Shanny and his crew weren't playing nice for the Canadian media and will treat similar incidents with similar strong sentences. We won't know until the next one, though.

I don't believe the NHL has a bias against the Flyers; I just want to see consistency.
I would think in Van-city you would know that the media in Canada does not cater to ALL Canadian cities in that way.

And regardless of media, any bias in the ruling is coming from the NHL, in which Philadelphia is a gigantic market. I would think they care more about Philly than any Canadian team.

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09-22-2011, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by YouCantYandleThis View Post
I would think in Van-city you would know that the media in Canada does not cater to ALL Canadian cities in that way.

And regardless of media, any bias in the ruling is coming from the NHL, in which Philadelphia is a gigantic market. I would think they care more about Philly than any Canadian team.
I think it's somewhat of a coincidence that the Flyers happened to be involved in these incidents. The Canadian media tends to make something out of nothing... so if there's something legitimate involving a Canadian team, they'll tend to blow it up.

I doubt that the only two suspect hits of the pre-season have happened during games involving Canadian teams (Shelley & PL3); we just don't see/hear about everything that's happening elsewhere because pre-season hockey highlights barely get any coverage south of the border.


Last edited by CanadianFlyer88: 09-22-2011 at 11:56 PM.
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09-22-2011, 11:53 PM
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I mean if your one criteria is a large US market beating up a Canadian team, and suspending to placate the Canadian media, then Zdeno Chara would have been drawn and quartered.

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09-23-2011, 12:01 AM
  #32
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I mean if your one criteria is a large US market beating up a Canadian team, and suspending to placate the Canadian media, then Zdeno Chara would have been drawn and quartered.
It's not the only criteria and it's not a US Market team vs a Canadian market team. The microscope is more focused when a Canadian team is involved, is all.

I'll admit that I was surprised the NHL didn't come down hard on Chara, even though I didn't think the hit warranted any supplemental discipline.

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09-23-2011, 12:22 AM
  #33
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losing 5 NHL gamechecks isnt enough. How many of the 5 preseason games was he going to play anyway? People think it was too harsh? Shelley got off lucky he only lost 5 NHL games. Should of been more. It was dangerous and ****ing stupid.
And Holmgren should of kept his mouth shut about it. Dont agree with the ruling? Some things never change.

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09-23-2011, 03:13 AM
  #34
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I called it. 5 games.

Hopefully that means no more shelley. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

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09-23-2011, 03:28 AM
  #35
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One question: can they wave a suspended player or do they have to wait until suspension is over?

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09-23-2011, 04:17 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I think it's somewhat of a coincidence that the Flyers happened to be involved in these incidents. The Canadian media tends to make something out of nothing... so if there's something legitimate involving a Canadian team, they'll tend to blow it up.

I doubt that the only two suspect hits of the pre-season have happened during games involving Canadian teams (Shelley & PL3); we just don't see/hear about everything that's happening elsewhere because pre-season hockey highlights barely get any coverage south of the border.



And I think that's ridiculous. Brendan Shannahan isn't gonna suspend someone based on media pressure, and no-one really gives a **** about Vancouver in Canada.

So really, if there was a hit in the Columbus/whoever game that deserved suspension, they would have been suspended. But there wasn't.

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09-23-2011, 06:33 AM
  #37
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Homer didn't agree with the suspension?! UGH! This means shelley will be back.

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09-23-2011, 07:44 AM
  #38
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Homer didn't agree with the suspension?! UGH! This means shelley will be back.
I doubt it. Homer playing hardball and wont throw a player under the bus.

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09-23-2011, 08:39 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
What do you mean nonsense?

The NHL singled out the Steve Downie hit and the Jesse Boulerice cross-check as punishments to discourage plays that should not be part of the game... and subsequently did not punish other offenders with similar long term suspensions. Both plays happened against Canadian teams and, in my opinion, were looked at in greater detail and received harsher punishment because the Canadian media garnered the plays more attention.

The Flyers were suspended three other times that season, none longer than three games... and all more dangerous than Downie's hit. All three suspensions happened to be versus American teams and, therefore, weren't as scrutinized by the media.

I hope Shanny and his crew weren't playing nice for the Canadian media and will treat similar incidents with similar strong sentences. We won't know until the next one, though.

I don't believe the NHL has a bias against the Flyers; I just want to see consistency.
So how do you explain Chara/Pacioretty?

I think it was a Preds fan who last year broke down suspension stats to show a bias against newer teams, not necessarily American. Of course, the U.S. has been the spot for expansion, but the analysis showed that teams in traditional hockey markets (US and Canadian) got different treatment than nontraditional teams when one of their players initiated a questionable/suspendable hit.

EDIT: Found a PuckDaddy summary of the post with link to full article here.


Last edited by mrzeigler: 09-23-2011 at 08:43 AM. Reason: added link
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09-23-2011, 08:50 AM
  #40
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God I hate conspriacy theories.

Whether it's the Flyers against the refs/NHL or in this case Canada versus America.

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09-23-2011, 09:23 AM
  #41
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I doubt it. Homer playing hardball and wont throw a player under the bus.
I hope so man...

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09-23-2011, 10:22 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by YouCantYandleThis
And I think that's ridiculous. Brendan Shannahan isn't gonna suspend someone based on media pressure, and no-one really gives a **** about Vancouver in Canada.

So really, if there was a hit in the Columbus/whoever game that deserved suspension, they would have been suspended. But there wasn't.
It's not a question of media pressure. More media attention.

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So how do you explain Chara/Pacioretty?
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God I hate conspriacy theories.

Whether it's the Flyers against the refs/NHL or in this case Canada versus America.
There isn't a bias against Philly or a bias against an American market team. My point is that incidents involving Canadian market teams garner more attention because they're automatically one of the first stories on the sports news programs and there's more air time dedicated to highlights of those games. Games involving two American teams have less attention paid to them, even by TSN, Sportsnet, the Score, etc.

I don't know why the NHL didn't suspend Chara; I certainly expected it. The incident certainly was played over and over and over again in the Canadian media, though.

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09-23-2011, 10:45 AM
  #43
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I never saw Jody Shelly as a dirty player in his time in San Jose.

Perhaps this has more to do with the Flyers system and the coaching then it has to do with him. Just an idea.

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09-23-2011, 11:01 AM
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I never saw Jody Shelly as a dirty player in his time in San Jose.

Perhaps this has more to do with the Flyers system and the coaching then it has to do with him. Just an idea.
Shelley's NHL suspensions started in 2002 and include additional suspensions in 2003 and 2004, years before he joined the Flyers. The amount of games per suspension don't always correlate to the severity of the action. There were inconsistencies of the punishments meted by the the NHL in the past and that led to questioning the infractions.

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09-23-2011, 11:27 AM
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Totally ok with it. Though i hope this doesn't mean Rinaldo takes his place, that kid is a head case.

So if he is suspended without pay, does he still count on that cap?

The "myth" of flyers hockey is way over blown to where the organization believes it themselves. Drafting goons is just stupid, wasting 1.1 million on someone who's "skill" doesn't involve using a stick is inexcusable.

Simmonds can fight, but can also play. They guys you want like Lucic, and when he's got his head on straight, Hartnell. They nuclear deterrent enforcer hasn't mattered since the instigator. Cooke and his ilk continue to maim players, and they know they don't have to answer to the heavies anymore. Hopefully Shanny does a good job, so teams don't try to dress policemen anymore. It's gotten to the point where they are a sideshow just looking for something to do, which is usually a big dumb hit.

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09-23-2011, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
I never saw Jody Shelly as a dirty player in his time in San Jose.

Perhaps this has more to do with the Flyers system and the coaching then it has to do with him. Just an idea.
Agreed. Bob Clarke told him to go drill some schmuck in the back to send a message

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09-23-2011, 11:49 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
I never saw Jody Shelly as a dirty player in his time in San Jose.

Perhaps this has more to do with the Flyers system and the coaching then it has to do with him. Just an idea.
Thanks, we appreciate the contribution of all ideas no matter how inane or unsubstantiated from visitors!

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09-23-2011, 12:04 PM
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Totally ok with it. Though i hope this doesn't mean Rinaldo takes his place, that kid is a head case.

So if he is suspended without pay, does he still count on that cap?

The "myth" of flyers hockey is way over blown to where the organization believes it themselves. Drafting goons is just stupid, wasting 1.1 million on someone who's "skill" doesn't involve using a stick is inexcusable.

Simmonds can fight, but can also play. They guys you want like Lucic, and when he's got his head on straight, Hartnell. They nuclear deterrent enforcer hasn't mattered since the instigator. Cooke and his ilk continue to maim players, and they know they don't have to answer to the heavies anymore. Hopefully Shanny does a good job, so teams don't try to dress policemen anymore. It's gotten to the point where they are a sideshow just looking for something to do, which is usually a big dumb hit.
Good points.

Per CapGeek, it appears that suspended players' salaries don't count against the cap.
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Per section 50.10-c (P. 226) of the CBA, salary and bonuses that are not paid to suspended players do not count against the cap, meaning the above formulas translate directly into a team's cap savings.
That's a big surprise to me, and is counterintuitive in the sense that the Flyers actually benefit from Shelley's stupidity. Maybe I'm missing something in the finer details.

To your last point, the aging enforcer is exponentially worse as his mediocre skillset at the top of his game deteriorate with age, meaning that he is a stride or three behind the play and there is added necessity to play outside the rules. Shelley's hit was most probably just ignorance and/or laziness to avoid the illegal hit, but I can envisage a play where the slow tough guy wants to make a big hit, but isn't fast enough to get the opponent while he's still playing the puck. Or we could extrapolate even further that they just don't have the hockey smarts / speed of thinking to identify a dangerous situation developing. I'm overgeneralizing, but if you eliminate intent to injure as a motivation, this is pretty much all that's left.

Bottom line: players and fans alike would be better served with one more skilled player on every roster rather than a Shelley-type one-dimensional enforcer.

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09-23-2011, 12:04 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
I never saw Jody Shelly as a dirty player in his time in San Jose.

Perhaps this has more to do with the Flyers system and the coaching then it has to do with him. Just an idea.
Perhaps this has more to do with you being a San Jose fan. I'm sure none of your players are dirty until they go elsewhere, right?

Despite what others have told you (because the Flyers were oh-so-mean 30 years ago), Philly does not have a system that emphasizes injuring other players. Quite the opposite, really. Under Lavi, players who have done stupid **** have ended up being scratched. Just ask Dan Carcillo about that.

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09-23-2011, 12:04 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
I never saw Jody Shelly as a dirty player in his time in San Jose.

Perhaps this has more to do with the Flyers system and the coaching then it has to do with him. Just an idea.
Go back to your basement

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