HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

The Sean Couturier dilemma

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-23-2011, 01:53 PM
  #26
SeanVT395
It's Not Even Close
 
SeanVT395's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 3,126
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
What is the best thing for Couturier this year?

a. Another year in junior to let him develop and put on some size? However, does he really need another year dominating in the Q against 17 year olds?

b. He makes the Flyers. But then what? He plays 4th line center? Gets pushed to wing on the third line? Gets 5 minutes a game?

It is a tough decision. I personally would like him in the AHL, but the rules will not permit him in the AHL with a year of junior eligibility. So, I imagine he plays 10 games in Philly, sent back to Junior, makes the Canadian World Junior team, plays in the AHL playoffs after Junior. That sound about right?
With who? The Phantoms?

I think Holmgren is really high on Couts for his defensive game. I.e. if he makes the team, he'll probably see a lot of time on the PK and maybe time on the 2nd PP unit. I think that Couturier - Schenn - Simmonds could turn into a fantastic shutdown / energy line, lots of raw talent. Only problem is their experience.


Last edited by SeanVT395: 09-23-2011 at 01:59 PM.
SeanVT395 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 02:04 PM
  #27
youthoftoday
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 87
vCash: 500
Not sure of the rules with this type of player. Once he is sent back to JRs, he can't come back to the NHL this year, correct?

youthoftoday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 02:08 PM
  #28
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by youthoftoday View Post
Not sure of the rules with this type of player. Once he is sent back to JRs, he can't come back to the NHL this year, correct?
He could come back when his junior season was finished, but if he gets sent back Drummondville could trade him to a strong playoff contender.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 02:11 PM
  #29
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I saw him in Canada's red-white game last month, the rookie game, the pre-season game vs the Leafs, and what I could see of last night's horrible stream.

I heard some say he wasn't impressive in camp which I didn't see, but I've liked what I seen from him except the rookie game where he didn't stand out much. I thought he looked better and better as the game went along vs the Leafs. He is skinny like JVR and Carter during their rookie seasons, but I think he wouldn't be out of place in the league like they weren't.
The difference between those two and Couturier is exceptional skating (especially in Carter's case). It's way easier to not be out of place when you're a fantastic skater (most important skill in all of hockey imo), and Couturier is not.

I really think Cooter (yes, I'm sticking with this name), will struggle big time if he makes the big club. He physically can't handle the players and he certainly can't outskate them.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 02:18 PM
  #30
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Have you watched him?

I think I'm in the minority but I saw him in person twice so far this pre-season and I thought he looked really unimpressive. He is quite slow and very weak, and just doesn't look like he's ready to hang at the NHL level at all to me right now.

To me, he looks like JVR used to except that JVR at least had wheels. JVR has since bulked up and learned to use his body a bit, and is now very effective.
He does indeed need to bulk up, but don't you think being with an NHL trainer and nutritionist will spur that 100% more than going back to Drummondville to dominate 17 year olds? I agree he looked fairly average during camp, but in the games he's looked pretty good.

Remember he's essentially a defense first forward who sometimes needs to be reminded that he needs to contribute more offensively, and from what I've seen so far, he's been excellent defensively.

I'm not saying he's a lock to play this season in the NHL. I do absolutely think he should play 9 games to start the regular season and the team make a decision based off of that.

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 03:01 PM
  #31
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
The difference between those two and Couturier is exceptional skating (especially in Carter's case). It's way easier to not be out of place when you're a fantastic skater (most important skill in all of hockey imo), and Couturier is not.

I really think Cooter (yes, I'm sticking with this name), will struggle big time if he makes the big club. He physically can't handle the players and he certainly can't outskate them.
I agree they are much better skaters, but I don't agree that Couturier physically can't handle the players. He is bigger than Brayden Schenn and no one has concerns about Schenn not being able to handle the physicality of the league.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 03:08 PM
  #32
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,322
vCash: 500
One thing is this "fairly average during camp" thing that is going around. Not just from you sobrien but from other people. Now Im not saying he should or shouldnt make the team, but I have heard complete opposite from a bunch of people that have gone to the training camps. They have all positive things to say. The only thing they have said is his weight and getting pushed off the puck. His skill is easily NHL ready.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 03:10 PM
  #33
DUHockey9
Registered User
 
DUHockey9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hogwarts
Country: United States
Posts: 4,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I agree they are much better skaters, but I don't agree that Couturier physically can't handle the players. He is bigger than Brayden Schenn and no one has concerns about Schenn not being able to handle the physicality of the league.
Schenn has the strength though. I saw Schenn putting people on their butts (during the rookie game especially) whereas I saw Couturier getting rubbed out easily.

Color me unimpressed with Couturier I guess. And that's nothing against him, I just don't think he's physically ready. He genuninely looks like a boy amongst men out there.

He'll be a good one, but I don't think now is the time.

DUHockey9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 03:16 PM
  #34
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
One thing is this "fairly average during camp" thing that is going around. Not just from you sobrien but from other people. Now Im not saying he should or shouldnt make the team, but I have heard complete opposite from a bunch of people that have gone to the training camps. They have all positive things to say. The only thing they have said is his weight and getting pushed off the puck. His skill is easily NHL ready.
Oh no I agree, one of my arguments above for that is because he's paying so much more attention defensively, and that goes unnoticed when people are watching for flashy offensive plays. In terms of a good all-around hockey player that fits his scouting report, I'd say he's been very good. If someone was expecting 15 points from him out of the preseason and him putting on deke-and-dangle exhibitions, then obviously you were bound to be disappointed from the outset.

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 03:22 PM
  #35
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
One thing is this "fairly average during camp" thing that is going around. Not just from you sobrien but from other people. Now Im not saying he should or shouldnt make the team, but I have heard complete opposite from a bunch of people that have gone to the training camps. They have all positive things to say. The only thing they have said is his weight and getting pushed off the puck. His skill is easily NHL ready.
Well that's the thing. One blogger tweeted from camp that he was pushed off the puck and everyone started to run with that as gospel when most people didn't see him in camp and there was little coverage of it. There's not been any indication the Flyers are unhappy with his play. In fact it seems like they are putting him in positions to succeed. Last night he was on the top line with JVR and Simmonds and he's been getting big minutes. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get at least a 9 game look.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 03:28 PM
  #36
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Oh no I agree, one of my arguments above for that is because he's paying so much more attention defensively, and that goes unnoticed when people are watching for flashy offensive plays. In terms of a good all-around hockey player that fits his scouting report, I'd say he's been very good. If someone was expecting 15 points from him out of the preseason and him putting on deke-and-dangle exhibitions, then obviously you were bound to be disappointed from the outset.
I think it's his defensive play that is going to give him a chance to stick. His defensive awareness is advanced for a teenager. I could see him being used in a similar role that Jordan Staal was in when he was 18. Staal had a flukey year offensively so I don't expect that kind of offense from Couts, but I think he'll be a go to guy on the PK.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 04:05 PM
  #37
flountown
Registered User
 
flountown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Send him back to Juniors with a specific workout and dietary regimine.

Lots and lots of Cote's Hemp and some chicken. And a workout plan probably helps, but I really think it would be beneficial to work him into the line-up for a few games, then send him back to Junior, give him a taste so he has a better idea of what he needs to do.

flountown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 04:56 PM
  #38
Mystlyfe
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 12,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanVT395 View Post
With who? The Phantoms?
Came here to post this.

Mystlyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 06:05 PM
  #39
captainpaxil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
i absolutely see him getting an 8 game look. the question is what after that? stamkos wasnt ready and his coach even said so but proving himself against that level of competition made him rise to the occasion. a year of traveling and training with the team, getting used to the schedule, the overall speed of the lifestyle not just the game. so far i havent seen anything that says the kid cant make it

captainpaxil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 06:18 PM
  #40
flyershockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,544
vCash: 50
I think he'll get an 8 game look and then get sent back to juniors. That's what should happen anyway. A lot of younger players will look good for part of an NHL season and then fade later in the season due to things like schedule, strength, and endurance. Look at sbisa for example, he came out of the shoot playing very well, but by the second of the season he was noticeably worn down. Going back to juniors would have its advantages anyway. The flyers will give him a list of things to work on for next year and he'll still get to dominate and play in the wjc. That's a much better option than to stick him on the third line especially since the flyers have a laundry list of guys that they could stick in that third line wing role anyway.

flyershockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 07:51 PM
  #41
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,992
vCash: 500
I think he has been good but not good enough to have start his F/A clock ticking. I don't think he has shown more then Read or Holmstrom. He lack explosive speed from what I have seen.

lancer247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 08:12 PM
  #42
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,232
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Give him a year off from hockey. send hm to eat cows, learn to figure skate and lift with ben prentiss and gary roberts on alternating days. then bring him back next year and unleash your creation upon the league.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 08:26 PM
  #43
VanSciver
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
i absolutely see him getting an 8 game look. the question is what after that? stamkos wasnt ready and his coach even said so but proving himself against that level of competition made him rise to the occasion. a year of traveling and training with the team, getting used to the schedule, the overall speed of the lifestyle not just the game. so far i havent seen anything that says the kid cant make it
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I think he'll get an 8 game look and then get sent back to juniors. That's what should happen anyway. A lot of younger players will look good for part of an NHL season and then fade later in the season due to things like schedule, strength, and endurance. Look at sbisa for example, he came out of the shoot playing very well, but by the second of the season he was noticeably worn down. Going back to juniors would have its advantages anyway. The flyers will give him a list of things to work on for next year and he'll still get to dominate and play in the wjc. That's a much better option than to stick him on the third line especially since the flyers have a laundry list of guys that they could stick in that third line wing role anyway.

A lot of people don't want to realize that the Flyers would have to make moves to have the Cap space to give Couturier a 9 game look. Those moves would be permanent due to waiver and recall issues. Why should they do that for 9 games? The only way they should do that is if they think Couturier will stay with the Flyers all Season. You can't ignore the Salary Cap.

VanSciver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 08:59 PM
  #44
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
The difference between those two and Couturier is exceptional skating (especially in Carter's case). It's way easier to not be out of place when you're a fantastic skater (most important skill in all of hockey imo), and Couturier is not.

I really think Cooter (yes, I'm sticking with this name), will struggle big time if he makes the big club. He physically can't handle the players and he certainly can't outskate them.
Michal Handzus couldn't skate as well and he turned out to be a fine player. The way Couturier has been playing, he's going to make the team. Say what you want about being a weak skater, but he always seems to be in the right place at the right time and that's something nobody can teach and it's something that doesn't have to do with being a good skater.

What sets Couturier apart is that he's incredibly intelligent and what ever physical skill he lacks, he makes up for it by the fact he's so smart.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 09:15 PM
  #45
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Carchidi says Couturier looks better than JVR did as a rookie.


Quote:
BroadStBull
Better. More assertive at similar stage. RT @InqPotosky: @BroadStBull How does Couturier look? Better than 1st year JVR, worse, or same?
http://twitter.com/#!/BroadStBull/st...11965885890560

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 09:26 PM
  #46
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
At this point I'd say he's 60/40 to stay, and I would be shocked if he isn't around at least for the first 9 games.

I was disappointed with both him and Schenn in the rookie game, I expected those two to stand out and they didn't. Both have looked much better in the real games than the rookie game.

John Flyers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 12:58 AM
  #47
Deen
Registered User
 
Deen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,280
vCash: 0
I think he is ready, but will be better off being sent down.

Deen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 01:59 AM
  #48
orange is better
than other colors...
 
orange is better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,690
vCash: 500
The whole 'he's not big enough, he's getting pushed around, and he can't keep up with the physicality of the NHL... So let's send him back to juniors!" Theory is really funny.

Players don't get sent back to juniors to beef up. Couturiers skill set is NHL ready. Yes he needs to put on some weight, grow into his frame and learn to use it more, but he's not going to get that in the Q dominating 16 and 17 year olds.

It IS indeed a dilemma. Because schenn is the one that has disappointed me, not couturier.

orange is better is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 02:17 AM
  #49
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,982
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Carchidi says Couturier looks better than JVR did as a rookie.
People often forget that Couturier was the most dangerous offensive threat (in terms of PPG) in this draft as well as the single most notable defensive standout among the upper echelon forwards of his draft class.

The kid is a stud.

JVR is/was too, but I think all things considered, Couturier now would've gone 1st overall in 2007 no questions asked. It's arguable he should've gone 1st overall this year.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 04:35 AM
  #50
Spongolium*
Potato Magician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,653
vCash: 500
Can someone clarify something for me.

What would happen if Couturier was scratched for a game? Does that count against his 9 game limit?

If so would it be possible to extend his stay on the big club to say 18 games by scratching him every other game?

Spongolium* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.