HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Schenn, Couturier new top prospects for Philadelphia Flyers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-22-2011, 06:26 PM
  #1
cheesesteak
Registered User
 
cheesesteak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,051
vCash: 500
Schenn, Couturier new top prospects for Philadelphia Flyers

This was on the front page, and I figured it belonged here. To read the full article go to the link.


"It will be years before hockey historians decide whether the Flyers made the right decision shipping out their two proven star centers for futures. The answer is never easy or straight forward, but Flyers' General Manager Paul Holmgren felt the moves to trade Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were vital to the organization's future. The consequence is a prospect pool front-loaded with marquee forward talent.

The rest of the additions to the pool by means of draft and free agency add a variety of size and talent to a pool that had become stagnant with underachievers and disappointments. The result is a prospect pool and future from which the Flyers' organization can hope for great things as opposed to just a few fringe NHLers and role players.


1. (NR) Brayden Schenn, C, 8.5C
Acquired via trade with Los Angeles, June 23rd, 2011

20-year-old Brayden Schenn stands at the top of the world of hockey prospects for a very good reason. He managed almost two points per game while in the WHL and notched 18 points in just seven games at the World Juniors. He not only averaged over two and a half points per game but also tied a World Junior Championships record for most points by a Canadian player. He also scored at a point-per-game pace in seven AHL games as well as earning his first two NHL points during an eight game stint with the Los Angeles Kings. Then he was traded for former Selke runner-up and captain of the Philadelphia Flyers Mike Richards.

The past 365 days have been an adventure for Schenn, who seems assured the position of third line center on the Flyers' opening game roster. The rest will be up to Schenn. He has been tested and has dominated at every possible level with only the NHL standing before him. With the talent, work ethic, and two-way play to make a significant impact at the NHL, it is only a matter of time before he feels right at home as one of the future leaders of this young Flyers' forward core.


2. (NR) Sean Couturier, C, 8.5C
Drafted 1st round, 8th overall, 2011

When Schenn and Sean Couturier suited up together in quest of World Junior Championship gold in Buffalo this past winter, it is doubtful either suspected they would be competing at the same NHL camp by fall. The trades completed by the Flyers the day before the draft that brought Schenn to Philadelphia were one thing, but for a player of Couturier's caliber to fall to the organization at eighth overall was even more incredible.

The soft-spoken Couturier fought mononucleosis all season but still managed to improve on his offensive point-per-game. Though he finished with 96 points once again, he did so this time in 58 games for a 1.66 point-per-game average. That number was better than any other player in the 2011 NHL Draft. He was also a significantly better two-way player than any forward mentioned in the same draft realm.

The Flyers' organization, in need of defensemen, did not hesitate to snag Couturier with their pick while ignoring many talented blueliners such as Dougie Hamilton (BOS). Couturier was the only Canadian player from his draft class to take part in the 2011 World Juniors, and he is among the most NHL-ready players in the draft. Whether the Flyers will use this or opt to give him more time to dominate the junior ranks has yet to be determined. It is one of the biggest questions going into camp this September."


http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...elphia_flyers/

cheesesteak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-22-2011, 06:33 PM
  #2
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,866
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Solid rankings. I think they are spot on for the top two.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 07:40 AM
  #3
Falconator
Registered User
 
Falconator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,079
vCash: 500
The future looks bright in Philadelphia!

Falconator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 08:02 AM
  #4
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
I'm no big fan of Rinaldo, but shouldn't he be ranked? And quite high as well? I mean, he somehow got playing time in the playoffs. He could take Bourdon's place if it were up to me.

A few of the "notables" are no longer Flyer property as well. Bordson, Labrecque and Riopel (I think) were either not offered contracts or traded.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 09:30 AM
  #5
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
I'm no big fan of Rinaldo, but shouldn't he be ranked? And quite high as well? I mean, he somehow got playing time in the playoffs. He could take Bourdon's place if it were up to me.
There was a pretty long debate process about the bottom 7 or so of this list.

Rinaldo, Brown, and Pither just missed the cut.

Rinaldo should be graded a 5.0B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
A few of the "notables" are no longer Flyer property as well. Bordson, Labrecque and Riopel (I think) were either not offered contracts or traded.
Those players should have been and will soon be removed. I'm not sure why they haven't been already. I explained things pretty clearly. Just be patient on them because I don't know what happened there.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 02:15 PM
  #6
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
I'm no big fan of Rinaldo, but shouldn't he be ranked? And quite high as well? I mean, he somehow got playing time in the playoffs. He could take Bourdon's place if it were up to me.

A few of the "notables" are no longer Flyer property as well. Bordson, Labrecque and Riopel (I think) were either not offered contracts or traded.
The organization is high on Riandlo due to his toughness but his upside is fairly limited so I understand why he wouldn't make the cut.

I think Chris did a nice job with his rankings and ratings.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-23-2011, 11:29 PM
  #7
Larry44
10 - 88
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
I'm no big fan of Rinaldo, but shouldn't he be ranked? And quite high as well? I mean, he somehow got playing time in the playoffs. He could take Bourdon's place if it were up to me.
This is why rankings like this are not really that useful. If a 'prospect' is someone who is actually a prospective NHL player, Rinaldo should be in the top 5, because he's going to something most of the guys on that list are never going to do - play in the NHL. The people who matter, like Holmgren, think he's right up there in terms of challenging for a job with the NHL team.

But what would the GM and Director of Player personnel know about it, the HF 'wannabe experts' don't rank Rinaldo up their with all the AHL-lifers heading for Europe after their ELCs on the list? Marshall just plain stinks. He's never going to be an NHL call up, but he's 7? ROTFLMAO...

Larry44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 12:25 AM
  #8
dingbathero
No Jam? How about PB
 
dingbathero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. John's, NL
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,864
vCash: 500
I would like to see of the players they rank who has made it/who hasn't. How accurate are these or have these been?

dingbathero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 03:31 AM
  #9
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
For those upset with the Rinaldo issue, remember that HF judges on a different criteria than Holmgren.

While you may think a NHL-bound Rinaldo carries more prospect weight than someone like Marshall, don't forget that I have to judge the potential impact vs. the likelihood of any impact at all.

While I can see Rinaldo as a nice wrecking ball on skates, I don't see enough that could theoretically keep him there. He's quick, but he's small; hardly a heavyweight. Rumors of his defensive aptitude are greatly exaggerated. He's a liability both due to his reputation and his own hot-headedness. He doesn't have the skill to make it on a scoring line unless in a protection role.

If it makes you feel any better, it was an extremely hard decision.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 05:41 AM
  #10
Spongolium*
Potato Magician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,653
vCash: 500
Having Marshall there is a bit weird. The guy shouldn't even be classed as a prospect anymore.

Spongolium* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 09:30 AM
  #11
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,561
vCash: 500
I have to admit that I am disappointed with Marshall's inability to step up his game. I am not giving up on him yet but still disappointed. Rinaldo should have been higher then some of the ones listed ahead of him. But that is someone else's opinion. The kid busted his butt here all summer and he looks to be in great shape. He is quicker than I thought he was. He does hit like a semi truck and when he is on the ice the opposing player's heads are on a swivel. That being said I am more concerned how our top two do. Also Cousins is going to be leaned on this year a lot more with the Soo. Ranford fell off the face of the earth last year after a very quick start. Lets hope he does not turn into donut eater like we had in the past.

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 11:02 AM
  #12
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Honestly the only reason Marshall is not down by Bourdon is because the organization seems to feel he's growing. To their credit he is a pretty sturdy shutdown defenseman despite being totally useless with the puck.

I have two concerns with Ranford. First, the pace he finished the end of last season on after returning from suspension, and second, the rumblings of having a problem with his coach. I'm not sure how true those rumors are, but it's concerning nonetheless.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 05:56 PM
  #13
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
This is why rankings like this are not really that useful. If a 'prospect' is someone who is actually a prospective NHL player, Rinaldo should be in the top 5, because he's going to something most of the guys on that list are never going to do - play in the NHL. The people who matter, like Holmgren, think he's right up there in terms of challenging for a job with the NHL team.

But what would the GM and Director of Player personnel know about it, the HF 'wannabe experts' don't rank Rinaldo up their with all the AHL-lifers heading for Europe after their ELCs on the list? Marshall just plain stinks. He's never going to be an NHL call up, but he's 7? ROTFLMAO...
Yes, Rinaldo will probably play in the league, but that doesn't mean he has any business being there. Just look at the likes of Shelley, Cote, and Boogaard. Sometimes players who are barely AHL caliber talent make the league because there are still backwards thinking general managers that believe fighting is a useful skill in the NHL. The Flyers happen to be most backwards thinking organization when it comes to goons.

Rinaldo is completely overvalued based on his toughness. He brings little else to the table except he can skate well. Perhaps he can develop into a defensive forward if they are smart enough to get him to focus on that role in the AHL, but otherwise he'll have a short career like Cote because he doesn't bring much to the table.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 06:52 PM
  #14
DeflatedFootball7
Registered User
 
DeflatedFootball7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Belleville
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,951
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Yes, Rinaldo will probably play in the league, but that doesn't mean he has any business being there. Just look at the likes of Shelley, Cote, and Boogaard. Sometimes players who are barely AHL caliber talent make the league because there are still backwards thinking general managers that believe fighting is a useful skill in the NHL. The Flyers happen to be most backwards thinking organization when it comes to goons.

Rinaldo is completely overvalued based on his toughness. He brings little else to the table except he can skate well. Perhaps he can develop into a defensive forward if they are smart enough to get him to focus on that role in the AHL, but otherwise he'll have a short career like Cote because he doesn't bring much to the table.
I don't know why people keep posting this. He's really trying to become more of a hockey player and he's looked really fast during camp. People just downplay him constantly. makes no sense what so ever.

DeflatedFootball7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 07:07 PM
  #15
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
I don't know why people keep posting this. He's really trying to become more of a hockey player and he's looked really fast during camp. People just downplay him constantly. makes no sense what so ever.
Mika Pyorala looked great in camp. Means nothing. Last season was an embarrassment for Rinaldo so he needs more than a few games in camp to prove he is more of a hockey player.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 07:24 PM
  #16
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
I don't know why people keep posting this. He's really trying to become more of a hockey player and he's looked really fast during camp. People just downplay him constantly. makes no sense what so ever.
He goes to a psychiatrist for help due to his anger management problem. Just saying... (not making this up. Google it. Few articles on it)

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 07:38 PM
  #17
DeflatedFootball7
Registered User
 
DeflatedFootball7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Belleville
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,951
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
He goes to a psychiatrist for help due to his anger management problem. Just saying... (not making this up. Google it. Few articles on it)
Does that make him less of a hockey player? Jordin Tootoo had problems, went to a specialist, and he dominated for the Preds in the second half. I'm not putting them on the same level but it's a litttle unfair to Zac to say he's gonna be awful because of anger management issues (that he's getting help for)

DeflatedFootball7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 07:40 PM
  #18
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,713
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
Does that make him less of a hockey player? Jordin Tootoo had problems, went to a specialist, and he dominated for the Preds in the second half. I'm not putting them on the same level but it's a litttle unfair to Zac to say he's gonna be awful because of anger management issues (that he's getting help for)
Anger problems can lead to VERY bad things for his team. Examples: bad penalties (which he is known to take) and suspensions (which he had more than goals last season)

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 08:52 PM
  #19
Larry44
10 - 88
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Mika Pyorala looked great in camp. Means nothing. Last season was an embarrassment for Rinaldo so he needs more than a few games in camp to prove he is more of a hockey player.
Mika Pyorala also played some really smart hockey for us during the season. I don't know why he fell out of Lavy's favour, but I really liked him.

And for Rinaldo, well, he IS trying to play. He has scored the nicest goal of the preseason so far too, so it's not like he has no offensive instincts or scoring talent.

You can't compare him to goons like Shelley et al. He's a Carcillo/Avery type. A small fast disturber. But he has better skills than he gets credit for.

He really needs to stop taking stupid penalties, and it's not accident they are playing him with Talbot, who can teach him to thrive as pest.

If a list of 'prospects' includes stiffs who will never play in the NHL (guys like Marshall and Bourdon who are already behind Lauridsen and Kessel on my depth chart - and probably many others), and ignores actual prospects that will play in the NHL, what friggin' use is it?

Larry44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2011, 10:07 PM
  #20
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Mika Pyorala also played some really smart hockey for us during the season. I don't know why he fell out of Lavy's favour, but I really liked him.

And for Rinaldo, well, he IS trying to play. He has scored the nicest goal of the preseason so far too, so it's not like he has no offensive instincts or scoring talent.

You can't compare him to goons like Shelley et al. He's a Carcillo/Avery type. A small fast disturber. But he has better skills than he gets credit for.

He really needs to stop taking stupid penalties, and it's not accident they are playing him with Talbot, who can teach him to thrive as pest.

If a list of 'prospects' includes stiffs who will never play in the NHL (guys like Marshall and Bourdon who are already behind Lauridsen and Kessel on my depth chart - and probably many others), and ignores actual prospects that will play in the NHL, what friggin' use is it?
I liked Pyorala, too, actually.

Rinaldo did score a nice goal, but even Jody Shelley has scored a pretty goal or two. Rinaldo's offense is extremely limited.

I agree Rinaldo's style of play is more along the lines of a Carcillo or Avery, but he isn't as skilled as either of them. Avery was at 1.55 PPG (84p in 55gp) his final year of juniors. Carcillo nearly had back to back 30 goal years in juniors (29 and 30) and was just under a point per game both years. Rinaldo's best year in juniors was a 10 goal 30 point performance in 56 games (.54 ppg). Even Shelley and Cote had better career years in juniors. Cote had back to back 50+ point seasons and nearly scored 30 goals one year. Shelley's best was 25 goals and 44 points in 59 games (.75 ppg).

Rinaldo's debut in the AHL is also more in line with Shelley and Cote.
Rinaldo - 9 points in 60 games
Shelley - 5 points in 22 games, then 8 points in 69 games
Cote - 11 points in 61 games

While Avery and Carcillo were clearly better.
Avery - 23 points in 58 games
Carcillo - 24 points in 51 games

Rinaldo is only a prospect in the mind of someone who would draft Klotz in the 3rd round, draft Mathers over Hyka, sign Shelly to a cap hit of $1.1M over 3 years, and waste a roster spot on Cote. He's not a prospect in the real world.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-25-2011, 12:58 AM
  #21
Larry44
10 - 88
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Rinaldo is only a prospect in the mind of someone who would draft Klotz in the 3rd round, draft Mathers over Hyka, sign Shelly to a cap hit of $1.1M over 3 years, and waste a roster spot on Cote. He's not a prospect in the real world.
It's a slippery slope to call our playoff call up 'not a prospect in the real world'. Rinaldo is a prospect in the minds of Laviolette, Holmgren and the rest of the Flyers' organization. Now, I realize that those guys, who actually run an NHL team, don't know anything. Mea culpa. The HF Geniuses rule. Marshall and Bourdon are prospects (sent to the Phantoms camp today, non?), while 'non-prospects' like Rinaldo are with still with the NHL camp.....

Larry44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-25-2011, 01:01 AM
  #22
Giroux tha Damaja
Registered User
 
Giroux tha Damaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Giroux tha Damaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Rinaldo is only a prospect in the mind of someone who would draft Klotz in the 3rd round, draft Mathers over Hyka, sign Shelly to a cap hit of $1.1M over 3 years, and waste a roster spot on Cote. He's not a prospect in the real world.
Like it or not (most likely not), if he's a prospect in their minds he is a prospect in the real world. Those people you're talking about are running the show.

Giroux tha Damaja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-25-2011, 02:09 AM
  #23
CS
Bryzgalov's Blueline
 
CS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lumberton, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 14,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
It's a slippery slope to call our playoff call up 'not a prospect in the real world'. Rinaldo is a prospect in the minds of Laviolette, Holmgren and the rest of the Flyers' organization. Now, I realize that those guys, who actually run an NHL team, don't know anything. Mea culpa. The HF Geniuses rule. Marshall and Bourdon are prospects (sent to the Phantoms camp today, non?), while 'non-prospects' like Rinaldo are with still with the NHL camp.....
While I don't necessarily agree that Rinaldo is a "non-prospect," I have to point out that his potential is that of a Darroll Powe who can not play high-end defense and meanwhile is a risk for losing his temper taking a stupid penalty in the process much in the fashion of pre-Laviolette Carcillo.

He has the hands of Dan Carcillo.
The skating of Darroll Powe.
The defensive awareness of Jody Shelley.
And the intensity of Steve Downie pre-Tocchet coaching stint.

But because he's on Holmgren's "call-up" list as an enforcer, we should catapult him up the top of the charts?

He's not bad. He's just not amazing either.

Also, another thing to note...

It's one thing to compete with Jody Shelley for a job and beat him out because he can't skate. It's another to compete to play on the Flyers' 3 pairings where every player has to be able to do their job, not just skate around like a wrecking ball trying to take penalties.

Maybe I'm too hard on Rinaldo, but he will have to prove me wrong himself.

CS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-25-2011, 04:59 AM
  #24
Spongolium*
Potato Magician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,653
vCash: 500
If he turns into another darroll powe I will be very happy. I think Rinaldo will cut out the suspension type hits in the NHL because he wants to be here. His speed is his biggest weapon, he's incredibly fast for such a short stride. He also hits like a freight train

Spongolium* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-25-2011, 08:33 AM
  #25
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 9,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
He has the hands of Dan Carcillo.
The skating of Darroll Powe.
The defensive awareness of Jody Shelley.
And the intensity of Steve Downie pre-Tocchet coaching stint.
respectfully disagree.

Carcillo had 34g and 57pts in 108 AHL games to Rinaldo's 3g 9pt in 60 games. Carcillo also had 69g and 152pts in 161 OHL games to Rinaldo's 27g for 69pts in 185 OHL games. At the NHL level Carcillo has 36g and 73pts. Not trying to belittle the guy, obviously his role is not to put up points but still he's no Carcillo.

FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.