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Evgeny Grachev is off to an impressive start with the St. Louis Blues

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Old
09-24-2011, 03:11 PM
  #26
Barbara Underhill
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Good for Grachev I am happy for him, going to place the blame on Gernander. I think we need to reevaluate the farm system if we want to develop our offensive prospects. Gernander does a good job getting guys to be defensively responsible but I think he struggles with the offensive side of things.

I still think Grachev is going to have a solid career and am happy he'll get a chance with St. Louis. He obviously felt he was mishandled and I can't hold that against him.

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09-24-2011, 03:34 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
The player requesting the trade points squarely to HIS belief that the issue is with management.

When he then goes on to blossom IMMEDIATELY post-trade, it goes a long way towards showing he was right.

I've been getting progressively more and more concerned about Gernander for a long time now. It seems he can develop players who are defense-first hustle guys like Callahan, who play the game similarly to how he himself played. But, he's displayed no acumen to deal with talented offensive players - indeed, they seem to stagnate under him. We got a glimpse at Gernander in the TC between periods clips - and he was AWFUL. Granted, it was an artificial situation with a team that had been thrown together and it was only a little bit of exposure, but still - I was left INCREDIBLY unimpressed.

If it turns out we let a 6'4" monster who can skate and shoot go (for a 3rd round pick! ) because of this idiot... I want him gone. Now.
Out of all the people in the franchise that help make these decisions you go after the minor league coach? You think this was Ken's call all by himself? Shoney, Slats, Clark, and maybe even Messier were a part of this decision, why are you all up on Gernander?

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09-24-2011, 04:17 PM
  #28
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I don't give a crap. He requested a trade and I don't care how he does.

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09-24-2011, 04:23 PM
  #29
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I'm sorry, but, i cannot get worked up over Grachev scoring some goals in a pre-season game after he's traded. From this vantage point, the Rangers have been doing a pretty good lately of bringing along their young talent. For whatever reason, it didn't work here for Grachev. With Kreider and Miller on the way, I'm not too concerned about losing an enigmatic prospect. It's was worth the selection at the time, and they got back a 3rd round pick. No harm, no foul.


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09-24-2011, 04:29 PM
  #30
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BRF posted the same garbage last year about Gernander. Hey, god bless Grachev I hope he does great but he didn't want to be here. It took the Rangers almost a full season to trade him.

Gernander should get credit for the players he developed for the big club. We are going to use a miced in MSG broadcast to criticize the way he talks to a team? It's hogwash....

I just want to thank Leslie for her efforts on the board. You do a great job and I'm sorry not all posters appreciate your efforts...

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09-24-2011, 05:53 PM
  #31
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He scored a few preseason goals. Big F'ing deal. Some of you guys are acting like we just let the next Ovechkin get away from us.

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09-24-2011, 06:46 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post

I realize I have long been Grachev's biggest supporter; I don't expect others to be as upset or as demonstrative in their anger/disappointment as I am. By the same token, I am rather confused that the default reaction from the vast majority of the fanbase (many of whom are prepared to call out management on a daily, if not hourly, basis regarding the most minor adjustment to the 4th line or the 3rd pair on the big squad) seems to be to line up with the team on this one without so much as a hint of ambivalence or qualification.
Why?

He did not want to be a part of this organization. That is why "the vast majority" of the fanbase is sided with the organization on this one.

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09-24-2011, 07:05 PM
  #33
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The worst part about the community we have here on HF is that a majority of people spend their time playing Monday morning QB and armchair GM. Its inevitable that the second a player we once had has even the slightest success, a thread goes up announcing it and the whining commences. Its preseason. A guy lighting it up against a bunch of players who will probably get cut before preseason ends is not success. If he wins the Calder, point it out. 3 goals in the preseason is hardly the reason to worry about letting a guy who demanded a trade go.


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09-24-2011, 07:33 PM
  #34
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I'm particularly frustrated with the handling of this particular prospect, who I long thought had the best upside of any of our kids. All of the info I've been able to draw from the outside has led me to look at Gernander as the cause and I therefore want him out.
Look, I get this. Been there with prospects I wanted to see make good.

For reason's having nothing to do with the Rangers Grachev failed as a prospect. He and his people wanted him in the pro's when the Org. wanted him back in junior. He got his way, but he was not ready for the NHL.... or even the AHL. He goes to Hartford and by most accounts became known as a guy who floated thru many if not most of his shifts. Looked completely over whelmed with having to play against guys who had no respect or fear of his size or skills. Now I heard some things from various sources that he had some family problems back in Russia and that could well be a distraction. In the end, bottom line, it was not a good fit. He asked to be dealt.

Better for us, better for him that he's gone. If he makes it, great. Good for him. I never wish ill on a guy. They can't all work out.

But before you throw Gernander under the bus, realize he's done a pretty fair job. Or else he would not be there. Cally, Dubi, Ani, and Sauer all came threw his tenure. The fact that Hartford was good enough for them and some how not good enough for Grachev, maybe tells us some thing. We'll see.

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09-24-2011, 07:54 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
But before you throw Gernander under the bus, realize he's done a pretty fair job. Or else he would not be there. Cally, Dubi, Ani, and Sauer all came threw his tenure. The fact that Hartford was good enough for them and some how not good enough for Grachev, maybe tells us some thing. We'll see.
Wasn't Schoeny the coach until the 07-08 season? Which would mean Dubinsky played no games for Gernander as HC and Callahan only played 11. Gernander as I've said before does a good job teaching the defensive side of the game but I think he struggles getting the most out if his players offensively. In this situation I feel that might have led to Grachev's trade request. I don't think Gernander will ruin any prospects but he might not tap into their full potential either.

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09-24-2011, 07:59 PM
  #36
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The player requesting the trade points squarely to HIS belief that the issue is with management.

When he then goes on to blossom IMMEDIATELY post-trade, it goes a long way towards showing he was right.

I've been getting progressively more and more concerned about Gernander for a long time now. It seems he can develop players who are defense-first hustle guys like Callahan, who play the game similarly to how he himself played. But, he's displayed no acumen to deal with talented offensive players - indeed, they seem to stagnate under him. We got a glimpse at Gernander in the TC between periods clips - and he was AWFUL. Granted, it was an artificial situation with a team that had been thrown together and it was only a little bit of exposure, but still - I was left INCREDIBLY unimpressed.

If it turns out we let a 6'4" monster who can skate and shoot go (for a 3rd round pick! ) because of this idiot... I want him gone. Now.
I agree that Grachev was not developed well, but I don't think that Gernander is completely to blame. The organization wants Gernander to develop a specific type of player and anytime they have one who is more creative, they run into problems. It's ironic--Colin Campbell used to moan and groan all the time about how the Devils were all an interchangable flock of forwards and then worked hard to create a team full of interchangable forwards (and one that became very hard to watch).

Let's not forget that this organization needed to get back to drafting players who were hard working and more defensively minded--the free agent mercenary teams were filled with stars (most of them past their prime or damaged goods). But now, this organization needs to focus more on developing talent rather than two way, defensive first hockey players. Gernander may not be the coach for that--but it's management that has to make the change to their thinking as well.

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09-25-2011, 08:48 AM
  #37
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I agree that Grachev was not developed well, but I don't think that Gernander is completely to blame. The organization wants Gernander to develop a specific type of player and anytime they have one who is more creative, they run into problems. It's ironic--Colin Campbell used to moan and groan all the time about how the Devils were all an interchangable flock of forwards and then worked hard to create a team full of interchangable forwards (and one that became very hard to watch).

Let's not forget that this organization needed to get back to drafting players who were hard working and more defensively minded--the free agent mercenary teams were filled with stars (most of them past their prime or damaged goods). But now, this organization needs to focus more on developing talent rather than two way, defensive first hockey players. Gernander may not be the coach for that--but it's management that has to make the change to their thinking as well.
I agree with this. I hope that they start looking at drafting skilled players in the coming years. I find it hard to believe that they couldn't find one skilled player that they didn't deem a "Ranger" in recent drafts. I hate to bring him up but Tarasenko seemed to me to fit the mold: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospec...imir_tarasenko

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09-25-2011, 10:17 AM
  #38
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If the replacement works out as to potential fine. But that seems more an unknown when Grachev showed up front he's a beast who can skate and has a shot.

Grachev and Tarasenko as Ws on the same line could be frightening...

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Old
09-25-2011, 12:19 PM
  #39
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There's nothing wrong with the Rangers AHL development system/coaching. There's nothing wrong with Gernander.

This clown scored a few goals in pres-season, big friggin' whoop.

Let's see what happens when he's playing against real NHLers, in the Regulation Season.

This guy had major issues with composure in every camp and in Traverse City. Everytime the puck came to him, he was jittery/shakey and spastic. Could barely handle the puck. He has major issues in the ability to read the play, anticipate and get involved in the flow of the game.

Then he had two or three good games last year in Pre-Season.
Came up during the season, played eight games and looked completely over-whelmed and under-skilled. Couldn't handle the puck, was lost in the sauce (again) and spent most of his time either slowly skating back and forth or being a spectator out on the ice. With the exception of one good hit and a resulting decent play; he did nothing in eight games.

At the AHL level he barely made much of a splash. Last season, This Grachev clown was outscored (for the team lead in scoring) by high octane offensive dynamos...such as:

Kris Newbury, Jeremy Williams, Brodie Dupont, Tim Kennedy, Wade Redden and Dale Weise. The previous season, even Ilkka Heikkinen had 10 m ore total points than him

Then he demands a trade?

This clown is still young. He's 21 years old! But he's a .......d.....I mean ...clown.

What Grachev wants is to NOT be responsible out on the ice. What he wants, is the freedom to freelance offensively. That's it. Only that. But you have to prove you have those kind of offensive skills, before any coach let's you freelance.

When you get outscored by Brodie Dupont two seasons in a row, you're not some kind of offensive dynamo. And in today's NHL game, you have to learn to be responsible in your own end and in the neutral zone.

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09-25-2011, 12:20 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Good for Grachev I am happy for him, going to place the blame on Gernander. I think we need to reevaluate the farm system if we want to develop our offensive prospects. Gernander does a good job getting guys to be defensively responsible but I think he struggles with the offensive side of things.

I still think Grachev is going to have a solid career and am happy he'll get a chance with St. Louis. He obviously felt he was mishandled and I can't hold that against him.

True words in my eyes. Feel the same way and wish him all the best in STL

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09-25-2011, 12:57 PM
  #41
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This guy had major issues with composure in every camp and in Traverse City. Everytime the puck came to him, he was jittery/shakey and spastic. Could barely handle the puck. He has major issues in the ability to read the play, anticipate and get involved in the flow of the game.

Then he had two or three good games last year in Pre-Season.
Came up during the season, played eight games and looked completely over-whelmed and under-skilled. Couldn't handle the puck, was lost in the sauce (again) and spent most of his time either slowly skating back and forth or being a spectator out on the ice. With the exception of one good hit and a resulting decent play; he did nothing in eight games.
This is Grachev's problem. The only time he ever feels comfortable with the puck is along the boards and in the corners of the offensive zone. He, like 50% of the players we seem to acquire, has major confidence issues. My god is he talented though. Great hands, good speed for his size, and a heavy shot.


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09-25-2011, 01:33 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
There's nothing wrong with the Rangers AHL development system/coaching. There's nothing wrong with Gernander.

This clown scored a few goals in pres-season, big friggin' whoop.

Let's see what happens when he's playing against real NHLers, in the Regulation Season.

This guy had major issues with composure in every camp and in Traverse City. Everytime the puck came to him, he was jittery/shakey and spastic. Could barely handle the puck. He has major issues in the ability to read the play, anticipate and get involved in the flow of the game.

Then he had two or three good games last year in Pre-Season.
Came up during the season, played eight games and looked completely over-whelmed and under-skilled. Couldn't handle the puck, was lost in the sauce (again) and spent most of his time either slowly skating back and forth or being a spectator out on the ice. With the exception of one good hit and a resulting decent play; he did nothing in eight games.

At the AHL level he barely made much of a splash. Last season, This Grachev clown was outscored (for the team lead in scoring) by high octane offensive dynamos...such as:

Kris Newbury, Jeremy Williams, Brodie Dupont, Tim Kennedy, Wade Redden and Dale Weise. The previous season, even Ilkka Heikkinen had 10 m ore total points than him

Then he demands a trade?

This clown is still young. He's 21 years old! But he's a .......d.....I mean ...clown.

What Grachev wants is to NOT be responsible out on the ice. What he wants, is the freedom to freelance offensively. That's it. Only that. But you have to prove you have those kind of offensive skills, before any coach let's you freelance.

When you get outscored by Brodie Dupont two seasons in a row, you're not some kind of offensive dynamo. And in today's NHL game, you have to learn to be responsible in your own end and in the neutral zone.
I agree. It seemed like, from what little I know of the situation, Grachev wanted more freedom to be an offense first player but he never put up the numbers to make a case for that freedom. Rather than developing a tenacious D game and trying to build up a nice offensive resume he asked to be traded. I'm fine with that. No hard feelings - I'd rather NYR not be depending on a player who isn't flexible enough to operate the way that they want.

Lastly, it's preseason. Jagr had two points and people are saying he's a lock for 80 and will get 50 with his eyes closed... its all just preseason. Countless players have had hot preseasons and fizzled out when the real rosters start playing.

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09-25-2011, 02:30 PM
  #43
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Grachev looked lost on the ice with the Rangers. I didn't see his goals this week. Maybe he's not lost 10 feet from the goalie with the puck on his stick. But I didn't see him in that position with the Rangers. Just hesitating at the blue line not seeming to know which team he was on.

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09-25-2011, 03:04 PM
  #44
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I'd wager that he'll get down back to earth once the regular season starts.

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09-25-2011, 07:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
This is Grachev's problem. The only time he ever feels comfortable with the puck is along the boards and in the corners of the offensive zone. He, like 50% of the players we seem to acquire, has major confidence issues. My god is he talented though. Great hands, good speed for his size, and a heavy shot.
Honestly, I have never seen anything from him that indicates he has great hands. In fact, all I've seen is the exact opposite. He looks like he's wearing thick mittins when he has to handle the puck. Like...he's holding the stick with his feet. Jittery, spastic, shakey ...eratic.

Good shooter? Seems like he does have a very good shot. As long as he can skate inot the puck and swing that stick, he he gets off some great shots. His wrist shot is okay, sometimes nice....other times weak and inaccurate.

Again, he's young. Still time for him to pull it together. But a few goals in Pre-Season is irrelevent, a non-event and certainly no grounds for starting a thread like this one and proclaiming that the Rangers should ahve kept him. Claims of " I knew it!" are so absurd and comical, that I can barely keep from falling out of my chair.

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09-25-2011, 07:40 PM
  #46
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C'mon, Leslie. This is incredibly condescending - and an inappropriate comment given your status as a HF writer. I have been almost exclusively supportive and complimentary during your tenure. Why are you directing a comment like this to me personally?
Wow! Are you friggin' serious? Can't be. You have to be doing a satirical prose, right there. You can't possibly be that sensitive and reactionary to the harmless sentence by Leslie. I mean, seriously....C' mon!

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09-25-2011, 08:20 PM
  #47
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I am very sorry that you took my response personally, Brooklyn. It was not meant that way at all. Writing just does not have the inflection that speaking does, so you were not able to see what I meant.

Ken Gernander is a darling of the Rangers' front office and I don't see any turnover in that position in the near future. Its not secret knowledge; it just is. There is no way I meant that as an insult to you. I apologize.

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09-25-2011, 10:27 PM
  #48
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I am very sorry that you took my response personally, Brooklyn. It was not meant that way at all. Writing just does not have the inflection that speaking does, so you were not able to see what I meant.

Ken Gernander is a darling of the Rangers' front office and I don't see any turnover in that position in the near future. Its not secret knowledge; it just is. There is no way I meant that as an insult to you. I apologize.
Leslie, thanks for clearing that up - I really appreciate it. The original post did seem out of character, so I was a bit mystified. Sorry if I overreacted.

As to Gernander, well, I've obviously made my position clear. As with every criticism I level at the organization, I hope to be proven wrong.

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09-25-2011, 11:00 PM
  #49
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We got a glimpse at Gernander in the TC between periods clips - and he was AWFUL. Granted, it was an artificial situation with a team that had been thrown together and it was only a little bit of exposure, but still - I was left INCREDIBLY unimpressed.
get a grip man. you're basing your judgement on that?? that's nonsense. it's a completely contrived situation with TV cameras watching. Gernander is well respected for his coaching - specifically his mentoring rather than just trying to get wins by playing vet AHLers to boost his own CV.

the reason we havent produced a dynamite scoring forward from Hartford is because we havent had one down there. And if we had - they would have been playing with the big team anyway.

Grachev scored some goals against ECHL/AHL scrubs and NHLers who dont give a crap because it's preseason. We'll see if he even makes it to double figures by the end of the season. I doubt it.

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09-26-2011, 01:34 AM
  #50
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I still think the kid has talent, and will do well in St. Louis eventually. I want to know what the problem was, and why it came about, which we'll probably never find the answers to.

I think if anything, Grachev knew he was down the depth chart, and wanted a shot to play in the NHL. Who can blame him? It's hard to keep motivated when your team just keeps bringing in bottom-6 players and won't give you a shot to prove yourself. You can't exactly just walk up into the office, say "play me, I'll tear **** up" and go out there and score. Especially with Tortarella, who goes by the "what have you done for me lately?" mentality when it comes to putting together scoring lines.

Now I don't know if that's true or not, but that's the feeling I get, and I think it was bad asset management to trade away a kid like that for a 3rd round pick when we all knew he had far more talent than that. I was never the kind to think he could score 40 goals like some had suggested, but I easily think he can score 20-30 at the NHL level in the right situation. The right situation was obviously not here, not now.

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