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Does trotz's D first hurt our O?

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Old
09-25-2011, 03:23 AM
  #51
101st_fan
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
When you mention players like Crosby, Gretzky, Lemeiux, and Ovie, as elite, then we are not defining the term the same. I think I finally get why you want more descriptors for my use of the term. I don't think any of our four we've been discussing fall into the same crowd as the guys you've just mentioned. Maybe Weber and possibly Rinne at some point in the future, but not at this point in their careers. So maybe I just mean that our guys are/were among the best compared to their peers in a 2-3 year period. I've only watched hockey since 98, so I don't have a feel for the historical elite players in this sport. I would do much better with football since I've been an avid fan for 35 years.

If split up, I think Weber and Suter would have an adjustment period. We saw Weber struggle a little without Suter last season. But they would still be considered two of the best at their positions for the next few years. Do you think that either would not end up in the top pair for just about any current NHL team? Weber certainly would. Maybe I'm viewing them with rose-colored glasses. After watching their performances during the Olympics (separated and playing against the world's best), I'm comfortable saying that both are really, really good players. Maybe not elite just yet, but close.
Notice I described those players as generational talents .... the hockey equivalents of Walter Payton, Johnny Unitas, Barry Sims .... top players of all time, not just their time. The Olympics provides a very skewed view. Replace Suter with Niedermeyer, Keith, or Seabrook ... the only place Weber gets that kind of opportunity is with Team Canada.

How many of our players are guaranteed HOF guys?

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09-25-2011, 01:55 PM
  #52
WartracePred
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Notice I described those players as generational talents .... the hockey equivalents of Walter Payton, Johnny Unitas, Barry Sims .... top players of all time, not just their time. The Olympics provides a very skewed view. Replace Suter with Niedermeyer, Keith, or Seabrook ... the only place Weber gets that kind of opportunity is with Team Canada.

How many of our players are guaranteed HOF guys?
I just noticed that all the guys you mentioned, for both hockey and football, are offensive players. They are easier to identify because they are scoring goals and touchdowns. Defensive players score, but ultimately they are judged by how well they prevent others from scoring. And that's not as easy to quantify as you've mentioned before.

I think the Olympics gives us a snapshot of the players potential over the life of his career. I think your definition of elite gives more weight to lifetime stats, thus your question about HOF inductees.

Guaranteed HOF guys?? Again too early to tell. But if I had to guess, I'd say Weber only. Suter's game doesn't lend itself for a lot of attention. He's more like an offensive lineman, maybe a center, that doesn't get noticed all that often. But if he's really good, the offensive clicks like a machine. When Suter is playing well, he isn't noticed, but he puts his teammates in position to do great things.

I haven't a clue about what makes a goalie a HOFer. If I had to name two of the top of my head, I'd say Roy and Hasek just because I've heard their names so often. Rinne is nowhere near their level in my mind.

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