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Old
09-20-2011, 04:26 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Except I never said that's truly what I believe, or it's what I got from it.

I'm showing that it's pretty easy to find whatever you want from that quote if you want to start looking for hidden meanings. Some people choose to see "zomgs he hates richards and carter! proof!" when it's just as easy to see "zomgs he thinks too much has changed and theyre pushing their luck! Proof!"

I didn't think either of those things when I read that quote. When I read it I thought he was trying to say there are a lot of good players here, and things are pretty different.
Exactly. That's what I took from it. He's excited to get the Season started. Not that he's knocking past teammates.

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09-20-2011, 04:41 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If you change a team too much it can do more harm than good.
The operative words as I see it is 'too much' and 'can'... We can never set a mark where it is too much, and obviously it is different in ever circumstance and always open to interpretation and debate in the post mortem.

That said... What I'm taking from Briere's statements is that the return on the trades are potentially very good, and can set the team up for an extended period of time... if they pan out. Thinking about it, one could see the return being quite a bit lower... especially if Homer had put himself in a position of weakness -- which leads me to agree with the feeling that GMs came after him rather that the other way around... and he had options, one being keep one or both and move other players -- Briere in my mind is looking at five young players with better than average talent... a couple with seemingly exceptional talent upside... replacing two players who have either reached near their top level or need something to push them there. They may get that something by being moved.

Briere also has to be seeing -- again in my mind -- that while the two leaving had team favoring contracts, if they continued to play well or improved, the five coming had low early contracts either signed or to be signed... and control being with the Organization for a reasonable period... and afforded great flexibility where Carter and Richards were nearing their No Trade Clauses kicking in and taking away much flexibility from the team.

As others have stated here, IMO Briere was being optimistic and seeing the upside... and in no way reflecting bad upon Carter and Richards, but rather reacting well to a couple trades that could have set the team back quite a bit for an extended period during the last years of his own contract.


With Snider saying they were lucky to be where they were a couple seasons back... I took it to mean that they were lucky to make the Postseason because they had to do so in a Shootout against a great goalie... and that they went far subsequently proves how consistent a team they were... and that had to be addressed, even though they were coming off a Stanley Cup Final appearance.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 09-20-2011 at 05:23 PM.
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09-20-2011, 04:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by El Emperor View Post
Not sure if Columbus is a bad area for sports, but with Ohio State, any pro sports team will have an uphill battle to get those fans to the games.

Having said that, who knows, maybe Carter lights it up and gives that team someone other than Nash to build a fan base.

To be honest, I'm surprised it wasn't Carter to LA, Richards to Columbus as I think Richie would have more line chemistry with Nash... But our return for both players was great, so I won't complain.
You might see it that way, but the GMs who went after them appear to have wanted their men pretty badly... thus the great potential return.

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09-20-2011, 04:50 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
The operative words as I see it is 'too much' and 'can'... We can never set a mark where it is too much, and obviously it is different in ever circumstance and always open to interpretation and debate in the post mortem.

That said... What I'm taking from Briere's statements is that the return on the trades are potentially very good, and can set the team up for an extended period of time... if they pan out. Thinking bout it one could see the return being quite a bit lower... especially if Homer had put himself in a position of weakness -- which leads me to agree with the feeling that GMs came after him rather that the other way around... and he had options, one being keep one or both and move other players -- Briere in my mind is looking at five young players with better than average talent... a couple with seemingly exceptional talent upside... replacing two players who have either reached near their top level or need something to push them there. They may get hat something by being moved.

Briere also has to be seeing -- again in my mind -- that while the two leaving had team favoring contracts, if they continued to play well or improved, the five coming had low early contracts either signed or to be signed... and control being with the Organization for a reasonable period... and afforded great flexibility where Carter and Richards were nearing their No Trade Clauses kicking in and taking away much flexibility from the team.

As others have stated here, IMO Briere was being optimistic and seeing the upside... and in no way reflecting bad upon Carter and Richards, but rather reacting well to a couple trades that could have set the team back quite a for an extended period during the last years of his own contract.


With Snider saying they were lucky to be where they were a couple seasons back... I took it to mean that they were lucky to make the Postseason because they had to do so in a Shootout against a great goalie... and that they went far subsequently proves how consistent a team they were... and that had to be addressed, even though they were coming off a Stanley Cup Final appearance.
great post. All hit the nail on the head

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Old
09-25-2011, 12:51 PM
  #55
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Inside the Flyers: Captain Chris Pronger is setting tone in Flyers' locker room

Decent article....some more Briere comments. Hopefully the locker room culture does change for the better and by the second half translates to some playoff success...


Quote:
Left unsaid: Holmgren also changed the culture of the locker room.

The locker-room demeanor of Richards and Carter was distant - and apparently the Flyers worried that it may have sometimes carried onto the ice.

Danny Briere, one of the Flyers' alternate captains, called Richards and Carter "good teammates," but he acknowledged that the trades should be good for all teams involved.

Richards was sent to Flyers West, Los Angeles, for Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn, and a No. 2 draft pick in 2012, while Carter was dealt to Columbus for Jakub Voracek, a first-round pick in 2011 that turned out to be super-prospect Sean Couturier, and a third-rounder (center Nick Cousins).

"For their careers, I think it might be a good thing for them as well," said Briere, referring to Carter and Richards. "All of a sudden, the pressure is on them to start performing. I think it's good for both sides. When you look at what we got in return, it sets us up for the future. We got five young guys with a lot of upside. . . . And you watch the other moves made after that, it tells you they're still going after it this year. This organization is committed to winning.


Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...#ixzz1YzIhOVPj

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09-25-2011, 02:35 PM
  #56
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Reading on twitter from a number of different sources that the locker room dynamic is much different, and much more comfortable and loose than it was last year. Take that for what it is, but imo I tend to believe these reports, and should translate to a positive thing on the ice.

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09-25-2011, 03:42 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Reading on twitter from a number of different sources that the locker room dynamic is much different, and much more comfortable and loose than it was last year. Take that for what it is, but imo I tend to believe these reports, and should translate to a positive thing on the ice.
It's September, it's the Pre Season, there is no adversity. And it's a fresh start to a new Season. And it's a looser and more comfortable locker room. No kidding! The reporters writing that are morons!

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09-25-2011, 05:47 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Reading on twitter from a number of different sources that the locker room dynamic is much different, and much more comfortable and loose than it was last year. Take that for what it is, but imo I tend to believe these reports, and should translate to a positive thing on the ice.
I ignore pretty much everyrhing Carchidi and Panaccio say on twitter or in their articles. Richards had problems with both of them so of course they're going to get their digs in wherever they can. Let's see how jovial the dressing room is during a losing streak.

Right after the trades, Carchidi made a comment that the dressing room would be much looser because he had problems with Richards. The Philly media is way too involved with things and most of them make themselves the centre of the story which sucks. I only read Meltzer, Baker and Seravalli and ignore the others.

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09-25-2011, 06:18 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I ignore pretty much everyrhing Carchidi and Panaccio say on twitter or in their articles. Richards had problems with both of them so of course they're going to get their digs in wherever they can. Let's see how jovial the dressing room is during a losing streak.

Right after the trades, Carchidi made a comment that the dressing room would be much looser because he had problems with Richards. The Philly media is way too involved with things and most of them make themselves the centre of the story which sucks. I only read Meltzer, Baker and Seravalli and ignore the others.
I believe the room will be a better place this year and that is not meant as a knock on the guys who are no longer a part of this organization. That being said most writers have some sort of agenda. So whoever you read, take the article with a grain of salt and take out of it what you want. little timmy definitely had a axe to grind with Mike and Jeff. One thing about this is Pronger will not put up with that crap where as Mike seemed uncomfortable when the media backed him into a corner. I cannot wait for Chris to light up these so called scribes.

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09-25-2011, 07:42 PM
  #60
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I think it's only a matter of time before the media turns on Pronger. It's going to be hilarious, and I'm already stashing up on popcorn.

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09-25-2011, 08:12 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think it's only a matter of time before the media turns on Pronger. It's going to be hilarious, and I'm already stashing up on popcorn.

They love Pronger, he goes back and forth with them and makes for great stories. He also could be the best one liner in the NHL, the media will always suck up to a guy like him because he is a quote dream. He is also very respected and what he does on and off the ice is rarely if ever questioned...unlike our previous captain

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09-25-2011, 09:30 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
They love Pronger, he goes back and forth with them and makes for great stories. He also could be the best one liner in the NHL, the media will always suck up to a guy like him because he is a quote dream. He is also very respected and what he does on and off the ice is rarely if ever questioned...unlike our previous captain
Not to mention that they fear that he may be the only player who would actually meet up with them after hours... alone... and 'school' them on how to behave


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09-25-2011, 09:54 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think it's only a matter of time before the media turns on Pronger. It's going to be hilarious, and I'm already stashing up on popcorn.
I'd be shocked because they seem to be scared ****less of him. It's pathetic how they act when he insults them, as if they've received the ultimate compliment.

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09-25-2011, 10:01 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I'd be shocked because they seem to be scared ****less of him. It's pathetic how they act when he insults them, as if they've received the ultimate compliment.
If this team struggles at some point, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they throw him under the bus.

Edit: I believe this because he's the captain. The media has made the captaincy into a position that approaches the coach in terms of importance(in their minds). I doubt they break that habit easily, even though their whipping boy is gone


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 09-25-2011 at 10:10 PM.
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09-25-2011, 11:14 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
Carter is not happy he is gone.



[FGSB]

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09-25-2011, 11:26 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If this team struggles at some point, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they throw him under the bus.

Edit: I believe this because he's the captain. The media has made the captaincy into a position that approaches the coach in terms of importance(in their minds). I doubt they break that habit easily, even though their whipping boy is gone
Pronger will be one of the last scapegoats if this team starts to struggle. Homer, the new players brought in for past stars, and a high priced goalie will likely be under scrutiny before anyone.

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09-25-2011, 11:41 PM
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I wonder if we can arrange a vBookie event for this.

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Old
09-26-2011, 06:57 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Pronger will be one of the last scapegoats if this team starts to struggle. Homer, the new players brought in for past stars, and a high priced goalie will likely be under scrutiny before anyone.
Pronger, Homer and Snider would have to do a LOT to get any negative media coverage. They never say anything bad about those three. Someone else will be the whipping boy.

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09-26-2011, 09:33 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Pronger, Homer and Snider would have to do a LOT to get any negative media coverage. They never say anything bad about those three. Someone else will be the whipping boy.

Hey Ms. Woof, are you a Flyers fan or a Richards/Carter fan? It's time for you to get over it or become a fan of the Kings or Blue Jackets. You can't change what has done so why don't you move on and cheer for the team? Your pessimistic comments are really depressing...

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09-26-2011, 09:58 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
Hey Ms. Woof, are you a Flyers fan or a Richards/Carter fan? It's time for you to get over it or become a fan of the Kings or Blue Jackets. You can't change what has done so why don't you move on and cheer for the team? Your pessimistic comments are really depressing...
Thank you....

I don't mind pessimism and it's not like it's not warranted at times but it is getting a bit tiresome to constantly see the insinuations that everything that supposedly happened with Richards and Carter (between the media, fans etc) is now going to happen with other players or that we are going to suck to prove a point that trading the both of them was stupid and Holmgren is an idiot. It's like they want to see the Flyers fall flat on their face. Wishing ill against this team to prove some silly personal point and gripe is a bit much and is depressing...more depressing than my moniker which has more to do with other subject matter I post about in other forums...

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09-26-2011, 10:53 AM
  #71
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Oh I see. So people aren't allowed to have opinions that don't have sunshine beaming out of Pronger's ass?

My apologies. Here you go:



Please drink responsibly and enjoy. I'm outta here.

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09-26-2011, 11:06 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Thank you....

I don't mind pessimism and it's not like it's not warranted at times but it is getting a bit tiresome to constantly see the insinuations that everything that supposedly happened with Richards and Carter (between the media, fans etc) is now going to happen with other players or that we are going to suck to prove a point that trading the both of them was stupid and Holmgren is an idiot. It's like they want to see the Flyers fall flat on their face. Wishing ill against this team to prove some silly personal point and gripe is a bit much and is depressing...more depressing than my moniker which has more to do with other subject matter I post about in other forums...
It can never be Richards and Carter causing the problem. Especially when Briere said it will be good for them since they will face more pressure to produce. Briere has carried his weight in the playoffs. What has Carter done to become such an endearing figure on these boards? Richards I can understand, but Carter has always seemed to be injured or ineffective whenever he got to the playoffs.

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09-26-2011, 11:33 AM
  #73
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From an outsider perspective, even if the media "turns" on Pronger, I have no doubt that he will give as good as he gets and more likely than not, it wouldn't affect him in the least.

If there is anyone in the league who can tell the media to shove it and have absolutely no qualms about doing so, it would be Pronger.

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09-26-2011, 11:52 AM
  #74
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Awww, have I hurt the kool-aid drinkers' widdle feelings? LOL!

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09-26-2011, 12:08 PM
  #75
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Ooh, I'm glad I saw this thread. I saw the soundbite a few days ago of Briere saying "don't push your luck" with a pretty big smirk on his face on tsn.ca when they were up there to play the Leafs. That's definitely the impression that I got.

If there was a locker room faction at odds with Richards/Carter, little bits here and there seem to indicate (to me) that was most of all Briere, Boucher, Timonen and possibly Giroux. I also got the impression when those players reacted differently to the Zherdev situation. Carter and Richards seemed at least patient with him, while Briere was especially outspoken (as far as you can read into it from public comments).

I think Briere is hugely in favor of the offseason moves. Namely Bryzgalov and Jagr in, Richards and Carter out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
It was discussed briefly in the GDT (article posted there as well). He likely had separate thoughts with the statement about "luck" limited to the recent acquisitions and not the trades of the two players: "If someone would have told me when I signed here that Richards and Carter would be gone and Jagr, (new captain Chris) Pronger and Bryzgalov would be sitting in the same dressing room as me, I would have said, 'c'mon, now let's not push our luck too much,' "

If the writer sensed derision or conflict in Briere's response, critical to Richards and/or Carter, he probably would have promoted it in the article.

Later in the article, Briere is quoted as saying "I don't want to throw those guys under the bus," he said. "They were good teammates. I really have nothing bad to say against them as teammates, you know? For their careers, I think (the trade) might be a good thing for them, as well. All of a sudden now the pressure is on them to start performing. It's good for both sides. If everything turns out, it could be one of those trades where it worked out for the team and it worked out for the player."

Maybe my preconceived notions are slipping in, but the "don't push your luck" thing seemed like Briere's genuine feelings blurting out, while the second part is the political spin of Briere trying to minimize what he said. Briere knows you're not supposed to throw even former teammates under the bus, so he says, "I don't want to throw those guys under the bus."

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