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Evgeny Grachev is off to an impressive start with the St. Louis Blues

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Old
09-26-2011, 03:54 AM
  #51
Ola
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I think much comes down to the position you put a player in.

In the game today, inorder to constantly create offense, you need to; i) skate really well no matter what (IE no "he skates well for someone 6'5" excuse), ii) play next to someone that covers a ton of ice and gets the puck up ice.

Evgeny Grachev can't be put in the same position as a Artem Anisimov. He doesn't move well enough. If you like bring in a Ryan Malone or Dustin Penner, you put 'em in a position thats pretty much custom made for them. The typical PF role. The guys mentioned are players who have some strong sides, but who definitely could not fill-in in just about any role.

In HFD, under Gernander, my opinion is that Kenny kind of plays a "no-favor"-game towards players like Grachev. There is certainly no politics with Gernander in charge. He is obviously not telling like a "career AHLer" -- look, we want to get this kid in X and Y position's. Its your job to get it done.

They have to start from the bottom and work their way up. They have to win respect among their teamates, and get players they are competing with for jobs in the NHL to try to support them on the ice. Stuff like that.

I don't think its black and white situation, to be perfectly honest. You need to have a bit of a fingerkupp gefühl. Gernander could have more of that.

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09-26-2011, 06:09 AM
  #52
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Who are we referring to again? Some marginal 3rd round pick that benefitted from playing with two much more talented players?

A guy that had a problem because we were trying to teach the guy uhow to play at both ends of the rink. So much of a problem that he asked out 2 freaking years ago?

I could care less about the kid today. He's not a Ranger, nor is he Rangers poperty and if he ever plays in the NHL I could care less.

That sentiment goes any player on the team or in the system.

Eff them if they do not want to be here.

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09-26-2011, 06:35 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Who are we referring to again? Some marginal 3rd round pick that benefitted from playing with two much more talented players?

A guy that had a problem because we were trying to teach the guy uhow to play at both ends of the rink. So much of a problem that he asked out 2 freaking years ago?

I could care less about the kid today. He's not a Ranger, nor is he Rangers poperty and if he ever plays in the NHL I could care less.

That sentiment goes any player on the team or in the system.

Eff them if they do not want to be here.
I pretty much echo this sentiment.

It's not that I hate Grachev because he's not in our system anymore, it's just that I really don't care what he does. He wanted out, and he got it. You can't really blame a player for trying to further their own career, and I'm not going to demonize him for it. I could simply care less.

We basically got Fogarty for Grachev. If we want to analyze that swap a few years down the road, when we know what we have in Fogarty, I'm all for it. Until then, I'm not losing sleep over trading Grachev.

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09-26-2011, 06:57 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Leslie, thanks for clearing that up - I really appreciate it. The original post did seem out of character, so I was a bit mystified. Sorry if I overreacted.

As to Gernander, well, I've obviously made my position clear. As with every criticism I level at the organization, I hope to be proven wrong.
Leslie doesn't owe you an apology and there was nothing "out of character about what she said. It wasn't rude and certainly wasn't even remotely condescending; nevermind " incredibly condescending ". It was a simple, factual statement ...in one small sentence. The fact you reacted the way you did, is a reflection on you. Not Leslie.

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09-26-2011, 10:44 AM
  #55
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Grachev was not a Gernander/Tortorella kind of player. He has too much talent and is not physical enough.

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09-26-2011, 12:23 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Grachev was not a Gernander/Tortorella kind of player. He has too much talent and is not physical enough.
wrong. if he had "too much talent", he would have cracked the NHL line up or at the very least tore up the AHL. He plateaued. He simply doesn't have too much talent.

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Old
09-26-2011, 01:43 PM
  #57
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I'm sorry, but, i cannot get worked up over Grachev scoring some goals in a pre-season game after he's traded. From this vantage point, the Rangers have been doing a pretty good lately of bringing along their young talent. For whatever reason, it didn't work here for Grachev. With Kreider and Miller on the way, I'm not too concerned about losing an enigmatic prospect. It's was worth the selection at the time, and they got back a 3rd round pick. No harm, no foul.
Yeah they bring them right from college, juniors or europe with very little time in Hartford. Ken Gernander is mediocre and who has really "developed" offensively in the 40 years he has been there ?

For me it's different I'm a Grachev fan. So I am still following him. I also have an added incentive in proving a lot of naysayers wrong.

He could turn out to be a bust, and I have been hearing it so far lol. For now I hope he makes Kenny G. eat it.

Also I'm pretty sure he didn't dress for one game so he may have 3 goals in 3 games.


Last edited by The Mouth: 09-26-2011 at 01:52 PM.
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Old
09-26-2011, 02:39 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Who are we referring to again? Some marginal 3rd round pick that benefitted from playing with two much more talented players?
This is so insanely short sighted i dont know where to begin.

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09-26-2011, 02:40 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Who are we referring to again? Some marginal 3rd round pick that benefitted from playing with two much more talented players?

A guy that had a problem because we were trying to teach the guy uhow to play at both ends of the rink. So much of a problem that he asked out 2 freaking years ago?

I could care less about the kid today. He's not a Ranger, nor is he Rangers poperty and if he ever plays in the NHL I could care less.

That sentiment goes any player on the team or in the system.

Eff them if they do not want to be here.
I don't get your point. The above apply's to our entire farm team basically. Screw them all and stop having a team in the AHL then.

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09-26-2011, 02:48 PM
  #60
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I remember when Matt Gilroy had a good preseason and we were all excited.

I would think that several years of watching a player would out weigh a couple of games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mouth View Post
Yeah they bring them right from college, juniors or europe with very little time in Hartford. Ken Gernander is mediocre and who has really "developed" offensively in the 40 years he has been there ?

For me it's different I'm a Grachev fan. So I am still following him. I also have an added incentive in proving a lot of naysayers wrong.

He could turn out to be a bust, and I have been hearing it so far lol. For now I hope he makes Kenny G. eat it.

Also I'm pretty sure he didn't dress for one game so he may have 3 goals in 3 games.
Grachev played 1 year in the OHL then 2 years in the AHL and 8 games with the Rangers. He played twice as long with Hartford than he did in the minors.

Rangers run development camps as well as participate in prospect tournaments in Traverse City, all with the goal of developing their prospects.

Additionally the organization plays a role on where their prospects play. IE, JT Miller's decision to go to the OHL rather than NCAA, and where will Scott Stajcer end up in the CHL as his rights will likely be traded to a team where he will need to get playing time.

I think you severely underestimate how much of an impact an organization plays on a player's development both directly and indirectly at the Jr/NCAA level.


Last edited by vipernsx: 09-26-2011 at 02:59 PM.
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Old
09-26-2011, 03:14 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyNX27 View Post
This is so insanely short sighted i dont know where to begin.
What's short sighted about it?

He gleaned alot of points from two much more talented players and was able to use his size advantage over kids.

He gets to the AHL where now HIS talents are on display and lo and behold, he's no longer that guy he was in Juniors? I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because he was a marginal prospect?

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09-26-2011, 03:22 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I don't get your point. The above apply's to our entire farm team basically. Screw them all and stop having a team in the AHL then.
My point is that I could care less for a player that doesn't want to be a New York Rangers player.

The kid jumps to the AHL after one season of Junior Hockey, the coaching staff wants him to work on his game away from the puck and encourage him to use his size.

For what ever reason he asks out. Screw him.

And Yes, that goes for any player in the Rangers organization.

If they do not want to be here, I do not want them to be here. That goes for Lundqvist, Staal, Callahan, Dubi.

I don't view this as a Gernander problem. I view this a an individual players problem.

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09-26-2011, 04:23 PM
  #63
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Some thoughts here.

The Rangers drafted Grachev after everyone passed on him, which they did because other teams were unsure that they could get him here. The Rangers were able to get Grachev to come over--I was not privy to those discussions, so I have no idea how it happened. The Rangers were able to get Brampton to select Grachev and to get the junior team to get the paperwork done in time for the fall of 2008 season.

It was an outstanding team they had in Brampton, and Grachev developed really well. The Rangers were very happy. I was not privy to what was promised or not promised prior to Grachev coming over, but I do know that in the Fall of 2009, the Rangers felt that Grachev was not ready for professional play. They wanted him to return to Brampton for one more year. I'll say it again, the Rangers were very excited about him and his development.

Grachev and his people, or maybe it was just his people, did not him to return to junior hockey and wanted him to be earning a professional salary. Whose doing this disagreement was, I will never know.

Needless to say, the Rangers were looking for a certain type of player out of Grachev--strong on the puck, good puck pursuit, a goal scoring center/winger. Grachev was not able to play that type of game in Hartford his first pro season. At times, he looked like he was taking multiple shifts off a game. Why that was, again I don't think that we will ever know.

By the end of the 2009-10 season, things were not good. At last summer's development camp, however, Grachev made a very good connection with Derek Stepan, and they just put on a show together. But when Stepan stayed in New York and Grachev went back to Hartford, I think that it was basically untenable and the two sides had to part.

These things never have only one side at fault. We can speculate but, I think that this situation just did not work out and everyone just cut their losses. It was never a simple situation and I am sure that there is enough blame to go around.

I, for one, wish Grachev well and hope the best for him and the Blues.

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09-26-2011, 04:48 PM
  #64
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Thanks for this Leslie. Your right it's never a simple thing. Some maturity, family or other issues on Grachev's side. Some miss reads on both sides. Chemistry w/Gernander as a factor....probably. But in the end Grachev aked to be dealt. It did not work. That's business, sports, relationships and life. You move on.

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09-26-2011, 06:50 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Who are we referring to again? Some marginal 3rd round pick that benefitted from playing with two much more talented players?

A guy that had a problem because we were trying to teach the guy uhow to play at both ends of the rink. So much of a problem that he asked out 2 freaking years ago?

I could care less about the kid today. He's not a Ranger, nor is he Rangers poperty and if he ever plays in the NHL I could care less.

That sentiment goes any player on the team or in the system.

Eff them if they do not want to be here.
That's all well and good but in the event (probably unlikely) that Grachev develops into the offensive player a lot of fans/hf posters thought he might end up being, then you really have to look at Ken Gernander with a raised eyebrow.

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09-27-2011, 06:07 AM
  #66
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That's all well and good but in the event (probably unlikely) that Grachev develops into the offensive player a lot of fans/hf posters thought he might end up being, then you really have to look at Ken Gernander with a raised eyebrow.
Not really.

Grachev has to take some of that blame as well seeing as how he NEVER showed in Hartford what he is showing now.

Anisimov flourished under Gernander.

Callahan flourished under Gernander.

Grachev not flourishing under Gernander is not all Gernanders fault.

Gernander has his marching orders, get the player prepared to play in the NHL. Grachev's game away from the puck was not NHL ready. Not by a long shot. That was the area in which Grachev needed work. That was the focus of his development. in Hartford.

If he makes this NHL this year and is even somewhat responsible defensively, then Gernander did his job and did it well as Grachev was not good at all defensively during his short stay in NY.

That said, he could be a 30-30 guy this year and I will still not care. He didn't want to be here, screw him. Simple as that.

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Old
09-27-2011, 08:01 AM
  #67
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Ridiculous that some blame Gernander and not Grachev himself for failing here. Yep, Kenny G really made Grach look subpar for his cup of coffee in the NHL last year. He's not a Ranger anymore and I don't care what the guy does.

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10-02-2011, 12:50 PM
  #68
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Figured this should be posted:

Quote:
andystrickland Andy Strickland
Evgeny Grachev did little to help his cause today. Struggled
18 hours ago
Not shocking.

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10-02-2011, 01:12 PM
  #69
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made the team though

Evgeny Grachev - C - Blues

Evgeny Grachev has made the Blues out of training camp.
He impressed the St. Louis coaching staff with his offensive ability scoring three goals and registering five points in four games. He will play on the team's third line and may be good for 35 points.

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10-02-2011, 01:29 PM
  #70
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Seemed to fizzle down though as the preseason went on, I guess we will see if he can stick with the big club.

Edit - I haven't personally watched him at all in the preseason, im just going on what I read.


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Old
10-02-2011, 01:45 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Grachev was not a Gernander/Tortorella kind of player. He has too much talent and is not physical enough.
No one has too much talent. What I think that you are trying to say is that he wastes his talent because he doesn't try hard enough. He's certainly not alone in that category.

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10-02-2011, 01:50 PM
  #72
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Good for Grachev.

Like many have said, lets see where we are after 40 games or so...

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10-02-2011, 04:36 PM
  #73
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Don't care for players who demand trades. His agent was most likely telling other GM's this too, most likely lowered what the Rangers could get in return.

I think JD did us a favor because even getting that pick for a player who has demanded a trade is pretty good.

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Old
10-02-2011, 07:26 PM
  #74
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Guess the Rangers did Calgary a favor then too.

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Old
10-08-2011, 11:22 PM
  #75
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he was a healthy scratch for tonight. guess he wasnt that impressive in preseason

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