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The "Duchene vs. Tavares" Debate

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Old
09-26-2011, 07:29 PM
  #1
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The "Duchene vs. Tavares" Debate

Is completely insulting to me, as I don't see how the two hold the same franchise value and potential. One is a speedy centerman with decent hands, the other is a superstar in the making, has history and stats to prove it, and has turned two AHL players into first line mainstays.

Or did I make that up?

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Old
09-26-2011, 07:54 PM
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Hipietro
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I'm just amazed at people calling Tavares one of the most overrated player in the league. That's ridiculous.

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09-26-2011, 07:56 PM
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Who cares! We know what we got.

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Old
09-26-2011, 08:14 PM
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scott99
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I was praying the Isles would take Tavares in 09, thought for sure they were gonna take Duchene. I'm happy I was wrong. Tavares is the right guy for this team. No offense to the Avalanche and Duchene, but Tavares has done as much, with a lot less.

Not to mention, Tavares has been the #1 center on the Isles since day one, therefore teams have been keying on Tavares defensively immediately, while Duchense had less defensive pressure with Stastny, Hedjuk and others taking the pressure off of him. People don't realize or mention that when having the Tavares/Duchene debate.

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Old
09-26-2011, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
I'm just amazed at people calling Tavares one of the most overrated player in the league. That's ridiculous.

Who are these "people" you speak of? Because I haven't heard of anyone.

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Old
09-26-2011, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by periferal View Post
Who are these "people" you speak of? Because I haven't heard of anyone.
There's a poll in the poll section, and a majority of people chose Tavares, but you HAVE to see what some morons are saying. That Duchene is better, a better all around player, has a better shot, etc.

It's hilarity

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Old
09-26-2011, 08:46 PM
  #7
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I take it personal honestly. And Duchene has ONE more point in the same amount of games but quite frankly I'm not concerned with points. JT is a world class leader and professional athlete. I mean he's commits to this franchise with all the arena hoopla before the preseason because he didn't want it being a distraction and IMO he could of easily got 7+ but took less for the team. Also John as came out and said he wants kill penaltys and become and all around better player, something else Duchene will never do. To add on that, Duchene would be a 30 pt. player with JT's linemates while JT would have 80+ plus points with Duchene's linemates. Lastly! JT is a game changer, pressure player, and can take over a game. Duchene? I don't think so, watch him disappear in the playoffs *cough* Sedins *cough* {MOD EDIT}

I really do take it personal and it's insulting. Im sick of this franchise being the A.S.S. WIPE of the league.


Last edited by Homeland Security: 09-26-2011 at 08:49 PM. Reason: Edited
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Old
09-26-2011, 08:53 PM
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Hipietro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by periferal View Post
Who are these "people" you speak of? Because I haven't heard of anyone.
On the main board, poll section.

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Old
09-26-2011, 08:55 PM
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People only think Duchene is better because he had one more point in their rookie years. We won, I'd take JT over Duchene 11 times out of 10 and never think twice about it.

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09-26-2011, 09:01 PM
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Similar careers, lets just be thankful neither is a bust

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Old
09-26-2011, 09:01 PM
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Some underrating of Duchene going on here. The kid is good and a very exciting player to watch and wouldnt be surprised seeing him putting up some really good numbers with Colorado. That being said Tavares was the right pick for this team and I would pick him 10 out of 10 times and I have a man crush on him...

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Old
09-26-2011, 09:08 PM
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macleod50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 Timer View Post
Who cares! We know what we got.
Exactly.

The Colorado fans in that thread seem extremely bitter that other fans are picking Tavares.

I think Duchene is a dynamic player, but Tavares's on-ice vision makes it the tiebreaker for me.

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Old
09-26-2011, 09:43 PM
  #13
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Jesus. Who ****ing cares?

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Old
09-26-2011, 09:47 PM
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Duchene is not in the same class as Tavares.

That will be apparent to everyone outside the Islander fan base very soon, most likely this seaosn.

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Old
09-26-2011, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macleod50 View Post
Exactly.

The Colorado fans in that thread seem extremely bitter that other fans are picking Tavares.

I think Duchene is a dynamic player, but Tavares's on-ice vision makes it the tiebreaker for me.
We sound bitter as well just by having this thread honestly.

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Old
09-26-2011, 09:59 PM
  #16
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Tavares's Magical Play!

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Old
09-27-2011, 01:42 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Jesus. Who ****ing cares?
Exactly.

This debate comes up once a month. Both teams are happy with the player they got, that's all that matters.

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Old
09-27-2011, 02:19 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
I was praying the Isles would take Tavares in 09, thought for sure they were gonna take Duchene. I'm happy I was wrong. Tavares is the right guy for this team. No offense to the Avalanche and Duchene, but Tavares has done as much, with a lot less.

Not to mention, Tavares has been the #1 center on the Isles since day one, therefore teams have been keying on Tavares defensively immediately, while Duchense had less defensive pressure with Stastny, Hedjuk and others taking the pressure off of him. People don't realize or mention that when having the Tavares/Duchene debate.
Moulson is a very comparable player to Hejduk at this point in their careers, and the Islanders secondary scoring drew a lot of top checking assignments due to Grabner's breakout. Also, the Islanders outscored the Avalanche (slightly). The linemates/team argument is pretty weak here and the two both put the same number of points and led their team in scoring by very similar margins. They absolutely are comparable players and neither has done enough to really pull away as decidedly better at this point.

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Old
09-27-2011, 06:03 AM
  #19
scott99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Moulson is a very comparable player to Hejduk at this point in their careers, and the Islanders secondary scoring drew a lot of top checking assignments due to Grabner's breakout. Also, the Islanders outscored the Avalanche (slightly). The linemates/team argument is pretty weak here and the two both put the same number
of points and led their team in
scoring by very similar margins.
They absolutely are comparable
players and neither has done
enough to really pull away as
decidedly better at this
point.
Sorry to disagree with you Seph, but the Islanders had nobody as good as Stastny and Stewart on the Isles in Tavares first two years. These two guys besides being decent 20+ goal scorers, are way better passers than anyone the Isles had Tavares' first two years. Hedjuk, meanwhile scored 23 goals in only 56 games during Duchene's rookie season, which betters Moulson's goal per game pace. So Duchene definitely had more help his rookie season, and teams top defensivr lines keyed on Stastny, Stewart and Hedjuk more than Duchene, where as Tavares was hounded by teams top defensive lines from game one.

Granted, the Isles were more talented in Tavares second year, but even so, I still don't think there is an Islander as good as Stastny (would love to see Tavares fed passes from someone as good as Stastny), and Hedjuk, even though old, still is talented and scored 56 points, including 34 assists.

So the debate continues.

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Old
09-27-2011, 07:10 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
Sorry to disagree with you Seph, but the Islanders had nobody as good as Stastny and Stewart on the Isles in Tavares first two years. These two guys besides being decent 20+ goal scorers, are way better passers than anyone the Isles had Tavares' first two years. Hedjuk, meanwhile scored 23 goals in only 56 games during Duchene's rookie season, which betters Moulson's goal per game pace. So Duchene definitely had more help his rookie season, and teams top defensivr lines keyed on Stastny, Stewart and Hedjuk more than Duchene, where as Tavares was hounded by teams top defensive lines from game one.

Granted, the Isles were more talented in Tavares second year, but even so, I still don't think there is an Islander as good as Stastny (would love to see Tavares fed passes from someone as good as Stastny), and Hedjuk, even though old, still is talented and scored 56 points, including 34 assists.

So the debate continues.
Duchene and Stastny play on different lines. So Stastny being a better passer is a pretty moot point. They do play some together on the PP, but at the same time Duchene still outscored JT by 9 points at ES. And anyway, Stastny had a poor year last season (had all of 2 more assists than Parenteau and 4 more than Nielsen), and it didn't stop Duchene from still putting up the same number of points as Tavares.

Duchene does play on a line with Hejduk, and Hejduk currently is highly comparable to Moulson. Duchene's linemates last season really weren't any better than Tavares'. Goals per game is also pretty irrelevent, since it also means that Duchene played 26 games without Hejduk, whereas JT played all season with Moulson. Also, if you project Hejduk's gpg over 82 games, it results in all of 3-4 more goals than Moulson scored that season. Moreover, I don't see much relevance in looking at who had more help in their rookie seasons in determining who is better now.

After last season, that one is having their points boosted significantly from the team they're on is an argument that should be laid to rest. On highly comparable teams, they put up highly comparable numbers. Both bring other strengths to the ice beyond scoring, and both are still improving. Neither is notably better than the other at present.

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Old
09-27-2011, 09:03 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
On the main board, poll section.
Link please. i was looking i did not see anything like this

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Old
09-27-2011, 09:44 AM
  #22
scott99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph View Post
Duchene and Stastny play on different lines. So Stastny being a better passer is a pretty moot point. They do play some together on the PP, but at the same time Duchene still outscored JT by 9 points at ES. And anyway, Stastny had a poor year last season (had all of 2 more assists than Parenteau and 4 more than Nielsen), and it didn't stop
Duchene from still putting up the
same number of points as
Tavares.
Duchene does play on a line with Hejduk, and Hejduk currently is highly comparable to Moulson. Duchene's linemates last season
really weren't any better than
Tavares'. Goals per game is also
pretty irrelevent, since it also
means that Duchene played 26
games without Hejduk, whereas
JT played all season with Moulson.
Also, if you project Hejduk's gpg
over 82 games, it results in all of
3-4 more goals than Moulson
scored that season. Moreover, I
don't see much relevance in
looking at who had more help in
their rookie seasons in determining
who is better now.
After last season, that one is having their points boosted
significantly from the team they're
on is an argument that should be
laid to rest. On highly comparable
teams, they put up highly
comparable numbers. Both bring
other strengths to the ice beyond
scoring, and both are still
improving. Neither is notably better
than the other at present.
We will have to agree to disagree Seph, I notice on both of your replies, you failed to address my point of Tavares having to deal with other teams top checking/defensive forwards as opposed to having more freedom to create if your not the opposing teams main focus. This is a major point. First line always faces tougher defensive players.

Also you mention Moulson and Parenteau. It's much easier to be productive when you are playing with Experienced/productive NHL wingers as opposed to CAREER Minor Leaguers. There is no coincidence that Moulson and Parenteau are having career years with Tavares as their center. That's another area where Tavares is under appreciated. He makes the players around him better.

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Old
09-27-2011, 10:09 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
Link please. i was looking i did not see anything like this

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=990485


I think this may be the link.

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Old
09-27-2011, 10:33 AM
  #24
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It's only a debate b/c we create threads such as this one.

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Old
09-27-2011, 11:09 AM
  #25
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That poll thread is embarrassing. Who the hell cares if a couple of Avs fans think Duchene will be or is better than JT? This really matters to you?

Yikes.

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