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The Jagr Thread Part II: Moves Like Jagr

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Old
09-27-2011, 01:01 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You started talking about Bob getting the nod last year as if it somehow had any relevance to a discussion of projecting preseason to regular season production (it didn't).
I'm not quite sure how you inferred this other than for straw man reasons. Maybe that (discussion) is the intent of people like Jags6868 but again I will repeat once more....in situations like Jagr who hasn't played in the NHL for 3 years and rookies who haven't played ever or limited games below the threshold so that in their 2nd year they are still considered rookies...there is value and insight that can be gained in a competitive environment against opposing NHL teams. Again nothing more and nothing less. Things like whether they fit in the system or play within it, don't go nuts on the ice like a Rinaldo or Sestito, are in game shape etc etc. That is basically my point..again preseason has worth IMO in these kinds of instances....you categorically say it doesn't because it doesn't correlate with regular season production. I never even argued that point..it's one totally different from what I'm expressing.

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09-27-2011, 01:01 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Other than you, every person that watched the game would tell you that Jagr looked impressive not only on the powerplay but at evenstrength.

You're saying Jagr can't create his own chances? Are you serious? That is the funniest thing I have ever heard.

I completely agree. Jagr was by far the best player on the ice last night. He created many chances for his teammates and looked like a superstar out there. If he keeps this up, he will be our best offensive player. That is still a BIG if though. I'm not sure what he was watching.

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Old
09-27-2011, 01:36 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
I'm not quite sure how you inferred this other than for straw man reasons. Maybe that (discussion) is the intent of people like Jags6868 but again I will repeat once more....in situations like Jagr who hasn't played in the NHL for 3 years and rookies who haven't played ever or limited games below the threshold so that in their 2nd year they are still considered rookies...there is value and insight that can be gained in a competitive environment against opposing NHL teams. Again nothing more and nothing less. Things like whether they fit in the system or play within it, don't go nuts on the ice like a Rinaldo or Sestito, are in game shape etc etc. That is basically my point..again preseason has worth IMO in these kinds of instances....you categorically say it doesn't because it doesn't correlate with regular season production. I never even argued that point..it's one totally different from what I'm expressing.
Maybe you should have paid attention to the post I was responding to when you suggested I was arguing an equivalency between Jagr and Sim, then.

That's what I was talking about and then you started babbling about Bob as if that was in any way relevant.

And, btw, that was not a NHL team we were playing against last night. None of these preseason teams are. These games are glorified scrimmages that let the NHL make a cheap buck.

Whether Jagr or anyone else tears it up foreshadows squat going forward until they do it when it matters.

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09-27-2011, 01:55 PM
  #104
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Article talking about how great Jagr was:

http://www.courierpostonline.com/art...ws|text|Flyers

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09-27-2011, 02:12 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Other than you, every person that watched the game would tell you that Jagr looked impressive not only on the powerplay but at evenstrength.

You're saying Jagr can't create his own chances? Are you serious? That is the funniest thing I have ever heard.
Jagr looks like a beast and I believe he will be a dominate player this year. I don't know how anyone can watch his play to date and draw any other conclusion. I can understand it being a small sample size, it being against weak competition, etc.....but regardless, of all players playing, he has shined brighter than the rest. Will it continue? I don't know. But so far, so *ing good!!!

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09-27-2011, 02:16 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Maybe you should have paid attention to the post I was responding to when you suggested I was arguing an equivalency between Jagr and Sim, then.

That's what I was talking about and then you started babbling about Bob as if that was in any way relevant.

And, btw, that was not a NHL team we were playing against last night. None of these preseason teams are. These games are glorified scrimmages that let the NHL make a cheap buck.

Whether Jagr or anyone else tears it up foreshadows squat going forward until they do it when it matters.
I understand his posts. He said preseason is important - you said it it useless. He said Bob is an example of how preseason can show that a guy is ready. You said Sim in an example of how it proves preseason means nothing. Those are 1 guy on each side of the ledger. Jagr has been a beast. He has been better than Giroux, Briere and anyone he has played against. He beat Lundquist cleanly twice last night and he is one of the best in the world.

We don't know if it will continue, but based on what our eyes have seen so far.....we think all signs SO FAR point to Jagr having a good season!!! What is so hard to understand about that. I mean, it isn't empirical......but.....

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09-27-2011, 02:17 PM
  #107
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Devils fan here. Can't believe I'm saying this but I'm so happy Jagr is thriving right now, and hope it continues in the regular season. Just not against us. You can kill the Pens and Rags though.

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Old
09-27-2011, 02:49 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I understand his posts. He said preseason is important - you said it it useless. He said Bob is an example of how preseason can show that a guy is ready. You said Sim in an example of how it proves preseason means nothing. Those are 1 guy on each side of the ledger. Jagr has been a beast. He has been better than Giroux, Briere and anyone he has played against. He beat Lundquist cleanly twice last night and he is one of the best in the world.

We don't know if it will continue, but based on what our eyes have seen so far.....we think all signs SO FAR point to Jagr having a good season!!! What is so hard to understand about that. I mean, it isn't empirical......but.....
Thanks..you've pretty much surmised my point. It's important within certain contexts and not meant to be a conclusive/absolutist indication of performance over an entire season. It's a performance measure or assessment like teachers who assess via quizzes and then more comprehensive tests. Some people argue for argument's sake. They also like to denigrate other people's arguments by categorizing their POV's with loaded baseless words like "babbling." The Bob point was just as you interpreted..there is nothing irrational about it.


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 09-27-2011 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old
09-27-2011, 03:57 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Other than you, every person that watched the game would tell you that Jagr looked impressive not only on the powerplay but at evenstrength.

You're saying Jagr can't create his own chances? Are you serious? That is the funniest thing I have ever heard.
It seems as though you have a reading comprehension problem. I said last night, he didn't look like a player that could create his own chances. On the PP, he was very good in finishing and showing his experience in moving into openings at the right time.
But at ES, he wasn't very impressive in my opinion. He was behind the play a lot, and didn't look to have much of a game without the puck. Like I said, when he has the puck, he looks great. Average otherwise. But it is pre season. I expect him to improve. But at the same time, he isn't going to be getting as much time and space that he got last night, once the game start being real.

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Old
09-27-2011, 04:41 PM
  #110
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Still not sure where people got the idea he was slowing down. Looking at his stats, he's put up PPG+ essentially every year of his career. Glad to see him shine on the NHL stage and shut all the haters up. Yeah he's old, and the knock on older players is their skating ability, well he's been succeeding in a league with much more emphasis on skating than the NHL, so I think he'll be okay.

Still saying Roo leads the team in points.

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Old
09-27-2011, 05:41 PM
  #111
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He has a song written especially for him

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09-27-2011, 05:48 PM
  #112
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I've been one of his harshest critics but I gotta say that I like what I've seen of him so far.

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09-27-2011, 05:51 PM
  #113
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Got my mullet flowin in the breeze, givin a salute to all my peeps

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Old
09-27-2011, 09:36 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
I think everytime he scores in Pitts he should do the classic "salute" to the crowd
wasn't that salute suppose to be to his dad, since he started doing it after his dad died?

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Old
09-28-2011, 12:09 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SharksFan1 View Post
wasn't that salute suppose to be to his dad, since he started doing it after his dad died?
You very well could be right, and if so that is very cool of Jagr

I was just razzing the whole pens thing ya know..

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09-28-2011, 02:38 AM
  #116
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Jagr´s dad is alive and kicking...

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Old
09-28-2011, 04:08 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
It seems as though you have a reading comprehension problem. I said last night, he didn't look like a player that could create his own chances. On the PP, he was very good in finishing and showing his experience in moving into openings at the right time.
But at ES, he wasn't very impressive in my opinion. He was behind the play a lot, and didn't look to have much of a game without the puck. Like I said, when he has the puck, he looks great. Average otherwise. But it is pre season. I expect him to improve. But at the same time, he isn't going to be getting as much time and space that he got last night, once the game start being real.
It seems to me that you have a vision problem. You are clearly just looking to cause an argument here, it's quite sad. Jagr was a class above everytime he stepped onto the ice. Not just on the powerplay. At even strength he held off defenders, and skated circles around them. The amount of chances that line created was scary.

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09-28-2011, 05:18 AM
  #118
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I always marveled watching Jagr, I never liked his character much...however in these articles he seems incredibly humble (or humbled). I especially loved this quote...

Quote:
“With ‘G’ at center, you guys have a good future here,” Jagr said. “He’s a little genius. He’s a little Mario Lemieux. He has great hands. You have to be watching all the time.”

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Old
09-28-2011, 06:50 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
It seems to me that you have a vision problem. You are clearly just looking to cause an argument here, it's quite sad. Jagr was a class above everytime he stepped onto the ice. Not just on the powerplay. At even strength he held off defenders, and skated circles around them. The amount of chances that line created was scary.
How many times now have you replied to me with personal remarks? But I'm clearly looking for an argument? LOL Like I said, it's an open forum. Disagree with me all you want. But you better bring more than that. Jagr at ES was average overall.

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09-28-2011, 07:23 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
How many times now have you replied to me with personal remarks? But I'm clearly looking for an argument? LOL Like I said, it's an open forum. Disagree with me all you want. But you better bring more than that. Jagr at ES was average overall.

You're just flat out wrong. Read the article I posted. He set up Coburn's goal which was even strength and screened the goalie on the play. You need to watch it again.


Last edited by MrHockey1982: 09-28-2011 at 07:35 AM.
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Old
09-28-2011, 07:30 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
You're just flat out wrong. Read the article I posted. He set up Coburn's goal which us even strength and screened the goalie on the play. You need to watch it again.
No I'm not wrong. Was that pass intended for Coburn? One play is just one play. Overall for the game, his play at ES was average. There is more to the game of Hockey then just scoring goals. Watch the complete game.

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09-28-2011, 07:36 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
No I'm not wrong. Was that pass intended for Coburn? One play is just one play. Overall for the game, his play at ES was average. There is more to the game of Hockey then just scoring goals. Watch the complete game.

I watched the game 2 or 3 times. What about the article then? He was also the player of the game. How do you argue those points?

“He’s the best player on the ice … on both teams,” new Flyers goalie Ilya Bryzgalov said. “There’s no question. He said to the Russian media that he’s not a star anymore. He’s so good.”

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09-28-2011, 08:02 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
No I'm not wrong. Was that pass intended for Coburn? One play is just one play. Overall for the game, his play at ES was average. There is more to the game of Hockey then just scoring goals. Watch the complete game.
The pass was intended for Giroux who actually did tip the puck to Coburn. The pass was accurate to Giroux, but Cobrun was also in that spot. The fact is Jagr, it was Jagr's forechecking that caused the turn over, Jagr made a nice move and passed it.

Jagr actually caused quite a few turnovers in the game with his forechecking.

You keep saying that there is more to hockey than just scoring goals. Jagr was the best player on the ice for both teams. At the end of the day, it's the score that matters and Jagr had 3 Pts out of the 5 the team scored.

You keep talking about seeing "proof". There are about 100 articles, stemming from NHL.com, TSN.ca to every Flyers beat writer that said that Jagr was dominant and looked like the Jagr of the 120 Pts days.

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Old
09-28-2011, 08:06 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
I watched the game 2 or 3 times. What about the article then? He was also the player of the game. How do you argue those points?

“He’s the best player on the ice … on both teams,” new Flyers goalie Ilya Bryzgalov said. “There’s no question. He said to the Russian media that he’s not a star anymore. He’s so good.”
He scored 2 PP goals, and had an assist. Player of the game is normally based on goals and assists. Like I said, there's far more to the game of Hockey. You have to look at the forecheck, and pressure on the puck, strong positional play, winning puck battles and puck races. Backchecking pressure, and defensive play. In all of the aspects of 5 on 5 play, he was average.

That doesn't take away from his performance on the PP. Even though he was given a ton of time and space that he won't get in the regular Season on a regular basis.

On the assist on the Coburn play, the Ranger player made a terrible play trying a weak bank off the boards. Jagr gets the puck and attempts a pass to Giroux. It deflect off Giroux's stick to an wide open Coburn, who blasts it past the Goalie. But we read how Jagr set up Coburn. Coburn's top shelf laser is what made the play.

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Old
09-28-2011, 08:17 AM
  #125
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Oh god I liked reading this thread in the first two or three pages, but now its just that every other vanscivers or jesters post makes me vomit.

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