HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Prospect Rinaldo using preseason to grow

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-27-2011, 08:27 PM
  #26
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,411
vCash: 5700
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Same reason they all like Shelly, Carcillo, etc etc? Because its the Flyers mentality, to have a goon and/or crazy ****er on the team that really doesnt help the team much, but is there.

Oh and incase anyone wants to know/didnt know, Shelly's caphit DOES count against the cap even when suspended. Bill Daly, Deputy Commissioner and Chief Legal Officer of the NHL confirmed it.
Carcillo at least had proven he had some sort of game at a previous level. For his faults, he had a 30-goal OHL season, almost a second the previous season, and a 21-goal AHL season (although only 30 points, which speaks to one spot where his game obviously lacked). I'm sure some, or a lot, was luck, and that happens, but he also had to be on the ice and doing something to have enough chances to do so.

Jody Shelley, in 96-97 for Halifax had 25 goals, but given his 420 PIMS, I bet anyone who saw him play knew where his career was headed. Shelley had two pretty nice goals last year (the second probably really soft), but you don't see anyone arguing for more playing time since he obviously displayed that once in a great while he can get behind a defense and get around the goalie.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2011, 08:37 PM
  #27
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Same reason they all like Shelly, Carcillo, etc etc? Because its the Flyers mentality, to have a goon and/or crazy ****er on the team that really doesnt help the team much, but is there.

Oh and incase anyone wants to know/didnt know, Shelly's caphit DOES count against the cap even when suspended. Bill Daly, Deputy Commissioner and Chief Legal Officer of the NHL confirmed it.

Say you rolled with this lineup:



Rinaldo is still fighting for a roster spot with Nodl and Read. Obviously if Nodl is hurt longer then expected Rinaldo has a good chance of being on the team. At this moment though, I dont think I agree with Rinaldo outbeating Read. I dont know if anyone does.
No way he is beating out Read. Who are your other etc's etc's? Name our crazy ****er year by year who was worthless

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2011, 08:39 PM
  #28
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,411
vCash: 5700
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
well they get to see what he brings in practice. I think he is a great player type for a 4th line grind. You cannot base everything off of junior and AHL. Look at a guy like Matt Read he looks great, but developed very slow.

I bet rinaldo makes the most of his chance and shows he can be effective
No, of course you can't base everything off of junior and AHL, but pretty much anyone who has played (and actually plays, again, excludes goons...and that's still only most goons), at some point displayed some sort of offensive prowess. When stepping on the ice, there was a decent threat of a goal being scored.

Matt Read looks great, developed slow, but totally different role and is also just short of a PPG in college, and at least looks like he was a dominant player in the USHL and Junior A. Pretty much any NHL forward should be able to have any hockey fan pull up their career numbers at whatever leagues they played in, and see that you were a decent offensive contributor, at worst in juniors.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2011, 08:46 PM
  #29
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Well he isnt really going to be counted on to fill the score sheet, he is going to be a grinder/grit player with speed and energy on the 4th line.

He showed he has some offensive skills with his goal in the preseason, and might show more with some more time.

His role has always been a grinder type of player whatever league he has played in, and this has obviously limited what he has done offensively.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2011, 09:08 PM
  #30
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,411
vCash: 5700
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Well he isnt really going to be counted on to fill the score sheet, he is going to be a grinder/grit player with speed and energy on the 4th line.

He showed he has some offensive skills with his goal in the preseason, and might show more with some more time.

His role has always been a grinder type of player whatever league he has played in, and this has obviously limited what he has done offensively.
But all of these guys have at one point, that's what I'm saying.

There are plenty of grinders, dime-a-dozen, in the NHL who at some point, have proven they have a nose for a net and were a consistent scoring threat. Those skills likely helped them in becoming a grinder, because that helps develop your game on the boards. If you can pull a puck out of a scrum, and set up or score a goal, you can make an NHL career out of that. Even the ****-disturbers. To have never done that gives no basis for projecting to be an effective player.

That's why I say, go back to the AHL, and prove it, as the NHL is not the place to all of a sudden figure it out. That's why you have coaches down there.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2011, 09:19 PM
  #31
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
I think he has shown some offensive potential in preseason. He is a spark plug, and will make it really hard on other teams players as he seems tough as nails.

Im not sure exactly what everyone in the media is seeing, and more importantly what Lavy is seeing but they obviously are pretty high on this guy.

I think he is perfect for our 4th line. If anything he is going to bring some speed, and punish some people on the boards.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2011, 09:22 PM
  #32
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
I think he has shown some offensive potential in preseason. He is a spark plug, and will make it really hard on other teams players as he seems tough as nails.

Im not sure exactly what everyone in the media is seeing, and more importantly what Lavy is seeing but they obviously are pretty high on this guy.

I think he is perfect for our 4th line. If anything he is going to bring some speed, and punish some people on the boards.
Why not go for Harry Z then? He is faster than Rinaldo, hits everything in sight, has offensive potential, and plays on the pk.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2011, 09:29 PM
  #33
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,411
vCash: 5700
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
I think he has shown some offensive potential in preseason. He is a spark plug, and will make it really hard on other teams players as he seems tough as nails.

Im not sure exactly what everyone in the media is seeing, and more importantly what Lavy is seeing but they obviously are pretty high on this guy.

I think he is perfect for our 4th line. If anything he is going to bring some speed, and punish some people on the boards.

OK, well, if that's what you think, that's what you think. In two leagues, he's never displayed anything resembling capable offensive potential, so I'm not sure how one goal, a couple preseason games where he was barely getting on the ice, and a bunch of scrimmages outweighs his resume.

This is also a nice looking goal:



If all you're looking for is someone who can skate, "punish some people," and get in a fight or two, then you might have the same standards as your local beer league.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-27-2011, 09:41 PM
  #34
StandingCow
Registered User
 
StandingCow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 3,537
vCash: 50
They should show rinaldo vidoes of what not to do every night right before he goes out on the ice... and in between periods.

I really think it is just a matter of time before he gets himself suspended.

StandingCow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 12:14 AM
  #35
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Why not go for Harry Z then? He is faster than Rinaldo, hits everything in sight, has offensive potential, and plays on the pk.
I actually wouldnt mind Harry Z... I just do not want a slow, old 4th line that accomplishes nothing but waste time on the ice.

nodl-betts-shelley is the worst 4th line in the league... there is no offense, only speed from nodl, and none of them can hit or grind. I know nodl is a decent forechecker, but he cannot carry the other two. Our 4th line needs to be productive physically and chip in a few goals.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 04:44 AM
  #36
Spongolium*
Potato Magician
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bridgend,UK
Country: Wales
Posts: 8,653
vCash: 500
Lapperiere - Betts - Carcillo

Probably the most dominating fourth line in the NHL during their stint together. The flyers have the chance to make this happen this year. The reason the line was so succesful was because they could all keep the puck, but they were also extremly physical on the ice.

Nodl - Betts - Talbot

Isn't going to give you any scoring power, but a healthy betts means this line could actually be used very strongly as a shutdown line. The difference will be that you have almost no physicality.

Rinaldo - Talbot - Z

Is a line that is going to cause havok. That's a considerable amount of speed and hitting from one line. Something that the flyers haven't had for a while. The downside is that you lose the ability of that shutdown line, but the possibility of having a line that can pin opponents in their own end for stretches.

Personally I want no part of shelley on this team. Also his caphit does not count against the team while suspended if he is sent down, correct?

Time to cut ties with that contract and start rolling the best possible team.

Spongolium* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 08:57 AM
  #37
Banger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I don't think it's not not liking him as it is having rational expectations. He'll get his NHL chance, I am sure of this, and it seems that he has done what the organization has asked him to do thus far, as far as his discipline goes. Again, to his credit. But everything points to him getting a cup of coffee or two, and that's it. Some guys still get that, knowing they probably won't have an NHL career.

If he has all these skills that everyone in the media keep screaming about, it would help if they had any tangible evidence to that.
Guys mature at different times of their lives, mentally as well as physically. He probably thought that the only way he had a chance was to play an insane maniac style of play. It got him the attention and he rose all the way up to the NHL at the age of 21. That's not a small feat for a player like him.

Now they are trying to tone him down to become a "regular player". Why can't he succeed, just because he hasn't been a scorer in the past? The team, the NHL Philly Flyers, certainly seem to think he can and why would they waste their time on him if they didn't feel that way...they could care less what he did in the minors, it's completely 1000% irrelevant right now.

He's a very good skater and a hard hitter and those attributes aren't going to disappear. He's never going to be a scorer and that's not why he's on the roster. There is no reason whatsoever that he can't be an agitator that throws big hits on the forecheck and drops the gloves once in a while.

It's generally that scoring ability along with the rough style of play that gets guys noticed and drafted...Zac was able to attract the attention without the scoring. What's the difference if a guy scores in the minors and plays a goon/energy role in the NHL but doesn't score and a guy who doesn't score in the minors and plays an energy role and doesn't score in the NHL? Absolutely nothing....the play in the minors is generally what gets the player on the radar...he was noticed in spite of that. I think you're premise is faulty.


Last edited by Banger: 09-28-2011 at 09:09 AM.
Banger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 09:17 AM
  #38
jd2210
Registered Non User
 
jd2210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Why not go for Harry Z then? He is faster than Rinaldo, hits everything in sight, has offensive potential, and plays on the pk.
Harry Z has actually surprised me more than anyone at camp. I would have said Read, but I already had very high hopes of him making the team. Harry on the other hand I was convinced was AHL fodder that wouldn't even get a preseason game. His speed is very impressive and his age he, like Read won't be "ruined" by being played in the NHL "too early."

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this but I'd like to see our 4th line be Talbot, Betts, Harry Z with Nodl or Rinaldo as the 13th.

jd2210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 10:25 AM
  #39
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banger View Post
Guys mature at different times of their lives, mentally as well as physically. He probably thought that the only way he had a chance was to play an insane maniac style of play. It got him the attention and he rose all the way up to the NHL at the age of 21. That's not a small feat for a player like him.

Now they are trying to tone him down to become a "regular player". Why can't he succeed, just because he hasn't been a scorer in the past? The team, the NHL Philly Flyers, certainly seem to think he can and why would they waste their time on him if they didn't feel that way...they could care less what he did in the minors, it's completely 1000% irrelevant right now.

He's a very good skater and a hard hitter and those attributes aren't going to disappear. He's never going to be a scorer and that's not why he's on the roster. There is no reason whatsoever that he can't be an agitator that throws big hits on the forecheck and drops the gloves once in a while.

It's generally that scoring ability along with the rough style of play that gets guys noticed and drafted...Zac was able to attract the attention without the scoring. What's the difference if a guy scores in the minors and plays a goon/energy role in the NHL but doesn't score and a guy who doesn't score in the minors and plays an energy role and doesn't score in the NHL? Absolutely nothing....the play in the minors is generally what gets the player on the radar...he was noticed in spite of that. I think you're premise is faulty.
See the thing is, these great skaters/checkers are ussually ones that can play more than 5 minutes a game. Since Rinaldo cant play on the pk, and isnt really defensive reliable, I'd rather have a 4th line player that CAN play on the pk while doing the checking and agitating. And there are plently of 4th liners out there that can do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
Harry Z has actually surprised me more than anyone at camp. I would have said Read, but I already had very high hopes of him making the team. Harry on the other hand I was convinced was AHL fodder that wouldn't even get a preseason game. His speed is very impressive and his age he, like Read won't be "ruined" by being played in the NHL "too early."

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this but I'd like to see our 4th line be Talbot, Betts, Harry Z with Nodl or Rinaldo as the 13th.
Honestly, that would be perfect. Harry can do the agitating and forechecking as good as Rinaldo can. The one HUGE difference is that Harry Z can be played on the pk. No one is really talking about it, but I think Harry has a good of a chance as Rinaldo does. Todays lines, Harry played on a line with Betts and Rinaldo. I wouldnt be surprised if that last spot is between Harry and Zac.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 10:40 AM
  #40
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
See the thing is, these great skaters/checkers are ussually ones that can play more than 5 minutes a game. Since Rinaldo cant play on the pk, and isnt really defensive reliable, I'd rather have a 4th line player that CAN play on the pk while doing the checking and agitating. And there are plently of 4th liners out there that can do that.




Honestly, that would be perfect. Harry can do the agitating and forechecking as good as Rinaldo can. The one HUGE difference is that Harry Z can be played on the pk. No one is really talking about it, but I think Harry has a good of a chance as Rinaldo does. Todays lines, Harry played on a line with Betts and Rinaldo. I wouldnt be surprised if that last spot is between Harry and Zac.
Luckily Harry Z's first initial of his surname didn't start with an S.......

We had a kid in school whose name was Harry Krotz.......you can only imagine the abuse he took. Parents are really dumb sometimes...

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 01:38 PM
  #41
jd2210
Registered Non User
 
jd2210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Luckily Harry Z's first initial of his surname didn't start with an S.......

We had a kid in school whose name was Harry Krotz.......you can only imagine the abuse he took. Parents are really dumb sometimes...
In my car dealership days I had a customer named Dick Fealer. Why he didn't just go by Richard or Rick is beyond me.

jd2210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 03:14 PM
  #42
ORYX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 500
Who cares how a player was in Junior and AHL if they are playing a certain way today? Seriously? "You will not make this team ever because despite your new style of play that is good enough, you were not "good" enough in the past"?

If anyone knows Rinaldo from Junior they'll know that he was misused. Think about, the guy hits like a freight train, can scrap you to pieces. His job was to protect in the OHL, not to score. When you're young and your coach tells you to play a certain style, especially if your coach is Dale Hunter, you listen.

He displayed flashes of offensive prowess in Junior, you just didnt see it often because he wasnt trying to score, but trying to beat the crap out of the best on the opposition.

I can't believe some are infering he shouldnt make an NHL roster, or we have no reason to believe he has no skill because he didnt light up the OHL....

ORYX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 03:18 PM
  #43
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
Who cares how a player was in Junior and AHL if they are playing a certain way today? Seriously? "You will not make this team ever because despite your new style of play that is good enough, you were not "good" enough in the past"?

If anyone knows Rinaldo from Junior they'll know that he was misused. Think about, the guy hits like a freight train, can scrap you to pieces. His job was to protect in the OHL, not to score. When you're young and your coach tells you to play a certain style, especially if your coach is Dale Hunter, you listen.

He displayed flashes of offensive prowess in Junior, you just didnt see it often because he wasnt trying to score, but trying to beat the crap out of the best on the opposition.

I can't believe some are infering he shouldnt make an NHL roster, or we have no reason to believe he has no skill because he didnt light up the OHL....
Please.. go right ahead and find any player that didnt have offense EVER in juniors or AHL come in and score goals and score points in the NHL. Please. Any example will do.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 03:22 PM
  #44
captainpaxil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
kids looked great so far.

captainpaxil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 03:30 PM
  #45
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,249
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
In my car dealership days I had a customer named Dick Fealer. Why he didn't just go by Richard or Rick is beyond me.
That is bad..you actually just reminded me..NO LIE! His older brother's name was Richard...but he didn't go by Dick but still. I mean seriously what the heck were the parents thinking!

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.