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Ducks 2011-12 Training Camp Discussion (Maroon assigned Syracuse, Smaby on IR)

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Old
09-28-2011, 03:28 PM
  #376
Paul4587
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Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
I agree that Blake filled a purpose on that line, and even though he is small and no longer an offensive dynamo, he hustles as hard as anyone. But some here are acting like he couldn't be replaced and that Koivu and Selanne couldn't find chemistry with anyone else, when Blake in my opininon, is a 3rd liner playing on our 2nd line. Not to mention that he is 38 and declining, chances are that he's only going to be a 25 point winger this season.
He could easily be replaced, but I see nobody on our roster that could effectively do it (unless we move Ryan to the second line). Cogliano is a worse finisher than Blake and I'm not sure McMillan is good enough offensively to play 16+ minutes with Koivu and Selanne.

Not to mention if we move Cogliano to the second line, we have nobody to centre the third line (IMO McMillan is far more effective playing on the wing than in the middle)

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09-28-2011, 03:47 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
He could easily be replaced, but I see nobody on our roster that could effectively do it (unless we move Ryan to the second line). Cogliano is a worse finisher than Blake and I'm not sure McMillan is good enough offensively to play 16+ minutes with Koivu and Selanne.

Not to mention if we move Cogliano to the second line, we have nobody to centre the third line (IMO McMillan is far more effective playing on the wing than in the middle)
The 2nd line only averaged 14ish minutes a game at even strength. Blake himself only averaged 13:15 minutes per game at ES. McMillan would have had to grow into the role a bit, but I don't think it's a reach to suggest it was certainly possible.

I'm not saying he would have been superior to Blake, but I don't think the difference was that significant.

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09-28-2011, 03:56 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
I don't believe that for one second.
Yeah, well, Fowler wasn't good enough to make Gardiner expendable either.

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Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
I don't think anyone who is complaining about Blake being on our 2nd line is doing it because they want somone else on our current roster to take his place, but because they want someone from another team to do it. Which, however is a long shot given that Blake's contract is hard to move... I realize why he's even here to begin with (freeing up space to re-sign Bobby) so I usually don't complain... But if his contract had expired earlier this summer, there's no way I would have wanted the Ducks to re-sign him with the intention of using him as a 2nd liner.
I agree, but disagree. Had Blake's contract expired, and we were able to sign him to even less money, I really do think we would've resigned him so we had money to play with at the deadline.

-------------------------------------------------

When it comes down to it, this is what irks me... Blake on the second line works. Period. Say what you want, but it's worked for two seasons now. We also happen to be fortunate enough to have the best line that hockey has seen in years, a line that can completely dominate anyone on any given night. So why in blue hell, would you want to break up the best line, to experiment with an already solid second line, after we finally seem to have found a capable bottom six - the HUGE weakness we had - while in the process making the bottom six worse again because Blake isn't suited for it? Why?

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09-28-2011, 04:19 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by McMilli View Post
Yeah, well, Fowler wasn't good enough to make Gardiner expendable either.



I agree, but disagree. Had Blake's contract expired, and we were able to sign him to even less money, I really do think we would've resigned him so we had money to play with at the deadline.

-------------------------------------------------

When it comes down to it, this is what irks me... Blake on the second line works. Period. Say what you want, but it's worked for two seasons now. We also happen to be fortunate enough to have the best line that hockey has seen in years, a line that can completely dominate anyone on any given night. So why in blue hell, would you want to break up the best line, to experiment with an already solid second line, after we finally seem to have found a capable bottom six - the HUGE weakness we had - while in the process making the bottom six worse again because Blake isn't suited for it? Why?
1 word - zemmiphobia.

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09-28-2011, 04:21 PM
  #380
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Blake can only be easily replaced if he was easily removable which he isn't. I love Jason Blake. His compete level is off the charts. Nothing about his fitness or his game suggests he's as old as he is. But for how much he makes would I like him to produce more? Absolutely but you can't squeeze juice out of a rock. Blake has great chemistry with Teemu and Saku but he needs them a lot more then they need him.

But all that is moot because he can't be moved and we might as well keep him in a position where he has the best success and that's on the 2nd line. As Carlyle stated today Cogs is going to play center and if Devo makes the team he'll be in the bottom 6. But Blake's PP spot is probably going to be lost to Cogs though so I hope Blake is ready for some PK duty.

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09-28-2011, 04:24 PM
  #381
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1 word - zemmiphobia.
Exactly. (and it's not right).

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Old
09-28-2011, 04:53 PM
  #382
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Don't want to surf all over your board here for this info, but how has DSP looked?

I know that coming into camp he was in a race for a spot in your bottom 6. I actually started a thread on the prospect board about a month ago proclaiming that he is NHL ready and that he would make the Ducks full time this year.

How is that prediction holding up? Seems mixed so far on what he should do? Top line minutes in the OHL or bottom 6 minutes in the NHL...

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09-28-2011, 05:15 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Don't want to surf all over your board here for this info, but how has DSP looked?

I know that coming into camp he was in a race for a spot in your bottom 6. I actually started a thread on the prospect board about a month ago proclaiming that he is NHL ready and that he would make the Ducks full time this year.

How is that prediction holding up? Seems mixed so far on what he should do? Top line minutes in the OHL or bottom 6 minutes in the NHL...
Hard to tell. I say 60% he`s going back to juniors and 40% he`s staying. Maybe even 65 and 35.
Biggest (only?) concern is if he can stay consistant whole year.


PS
Great read on Macenauer.

http://ducks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?i...id=DL|ANA|home

Just now i know he`s actually drafted year before McMillan.

Mind=Blown

Thought he was 1 year younger.


Last edited by Kalvinators: 09-28-2011 at 05:23 PM.
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Old
09-28-2011, 05:24 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
Hard to tell. I say 60% he`s going back to juniors and 40% he`s staying. Maybe even 65 and 35.
Biggest (only?) concern is if he can stay consistant whole year.


PS
Great read on Macenauer.

Just now i know he`s actually drafted year before McMillan.

Mind=Blown

Thought he was 1 year younger.
Honestly, I'd flip those numbers around. Carlyle's giving him a lot of playing time, and even trying McMillan on the second line to try Smith-Pelley on the third [again] (in what looks to be our opening lineup) tonight.

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09-28-2011, 05:33 PM
  #385
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Tarkki was sent down today.

http://ducks.ocregister.com/2011/09/...-center/75953/

Quote:
– The Ducks assigned goaltender Iiro Tarkki to Syracuse (AHL), making official what was already apparent that Jeff Deslauriers will be the third netminder that they’ll be allowed to take overseas for their two season-opening games in Helsinki and Stockholm.

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Old
09-28-2011, 05:46 PM
  #386
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Tentative lineup is up....someone start a GDT. They lost both times I did it preseason.

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Old
09-28-2011, 05:48 PM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McMilli View Post
Honestly, I'd flip those numbers around. Carlyle's giving him a lot of playing time, and even trying McMillan on the second line to try Smith-Pelley on the third [again] (in what looks to be our opening lineup) tonight.
DSP phissicality only ads to that. He`s pretty good in front of the net, so other guys (McMillan, Cogliano, Gordon, Macenauer or other shor ones) can do their job better.

But i still think his consistency will give Randy a headscratch.

Even though, those numbers were for whole season. I still think that he could get those 9 games and then go from there. Doubt he`ll get more, even though it`s not impossible.

If he really stays, i could see Beleskey probably going through waivers.

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Old
09-28-2011, 05:59 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Don't want to surf all over your board here for this info, but how has DSP looked?

I know that coming into camp he was in a race for a spot in your bottom 6. I actually started a thread on the prospect board about a month ago proclaiming that he is NHL ready and that he would make the Ducks full time this year.

How is that prediction holding up? Seems mixed so far on what he should do? Top line minutes in the OHL or bottom 6 minutes in the NHL...
I'd say it's anyone's guess. Carlyle really likes his grind and physical game and Gordon seems to be effective especially in producing points. Both have developed good chemistry with Cogliano and each other. Both competing very hard for a spot on the team. Will be sad to see one of them not make it.

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Old
09-28-2011, 06:00 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Don't want to surf all over your board here for this info, but how has DSP looked?

I know that coming into camp he was in a race for a spot in your bottom 6. I actually started a thread on the prospect board about a month ago proclaiming that he is NHL ready and that he would make the Ducks full time this year.

How is that prediction holding up? Seems mixed so far on what he should do? Top line minutes in the OHL or bottom 6 minutes in the NHL...
He's shown flashes of looking ready but mostly looks slow and clumsy. I personally don't think he's good enough yet and we have better options for our third line than him. I've got a feeling he will be sticking around for the 9 games regardless of whether he deserves it or not.

Also, surely it's better for his offensive development to dominate juniors getting top line and PP minutes as opposed to playing 8-12 minutes a night in Anaheim and scoring 15-30 points.

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09-28-2011, 06:05 PM
  #390
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Thanks guys. I hope he makes it, selfishly, because of fantasy hockey. But in all honesty the Ducks will likely be better served if he has an extra year to work on his offensive game in the OHL.

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09-28-2011, 06:31 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by McMilli View Post
Yeah, well, Fowler wasn't good enough to make Gardiner expendable either.
If Fowler made Gardiner expendable, then he also made Schultz, Sbisa, and Vatanen expendable. I've said it before, but my belief is that Murray was focused on the shiny new toys.

What evidence is there that not having Blake on the 2nd line puts Anaheim out of the playoffs?

Quote:
When it comes down to it, this is what irks me... Blake on the second line works. Period. Say what you want, but it's worked for two seasons now. We also happen to be fortunate enough to have the best line that hockey has seen in years, a line that can completely dominate anyone on any given night. So why in blue hell, would you want to break up the best line, to experiment with an already solid second line, after we finally seem to have found a capable bottom six - the HUGE weakness we had - while in the process making the bottom six worse again because Blake isn't suited for it? Why?
The RPG line isn't even the best line since the lockout.

Blake on the 2nd line works, but it's far from ideal. That 2nd line just wasn't anything special at even strength, and he's the weakest of the three players on that line.

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09-28-2011, 06:40 PM
  #392
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He's shown flashes of looking ready but mostly looks slow and clumsy. I personally don't think he's good enough yet and we have better options for our third line than him. I've got a feeling he will be sticking around for the 9 games regardless of whether he deserves it or not.

Also, surely it's better for his offensive development to dominate juniors getting top line and PP minutes as opposed to playing 8-12 minutes a night in Anaheim and scoring 15-30 points.
This. People need to ask themselves if DSP has looked SO good he will push the Ducks an extra round. My personal opinion is a resounding no, I think he looked slow, wasn't delivering the thunderous hits I was led to believe he'd be doing, and has had minimal appearance on the score sheet. I'm not saying he sucks, but he wasn't that "look at me" rookie either. Let him get better in juniors and be that player next year.

I also think people are way overthinking Blake sitting tonight. It opens a spot to evaluate a rookie for staying up for Europe and/or a 9 game stint. Blake played the last 3 games, they also know what he can do. It's still preseason. Look at the kids in a game situation in what could be a heated game and see who comes to play.

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09-28-2011, 06:52 PM
  #393
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This. People need to ask themselves if DSP has looked SO good he will push the Ducks an extra round. My personal opinion is a resounding no, I think he looked slow, wasn't delivering the thunderous hits I was led to believe he'd be doing, and has had minimal appearance on the score sheet. I'm not saying he sucks, but he wasn't that "look at me" rookie either. Let him get better in juniors and be that player next year.

I also think people are way overthinking Blake sitting tonight. It opens a spot to evaluate a rookie for staying up for Europe and/or a 9 game stint. Blake played the last 3 games, they also know what he can do. It's still preseason. Look at the kids in a game situation in what could be a heated game and see who comes to play.
Yeah, I don't see Blake being scratched tonight as having any meaning at all. Preseason is like that.

I also don't believe DSP has been good enough to make Anaheim stand up and take notice of his play. He hasn't been bad, but it's looked to me like he's still a bit behind the play at times. In my opinion, that's a sign he's still not quite ready yet. The regular season is a step up from preseason, so if he's chugging a bit out there now... Another year should do him good. Give him a rundown of what he needs to work on, speed, conditioning, and so on and let him go play in the Juniors.

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09-28-2011, 07:59 PM
  #394
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The RPG line isn't even the best line since the lockout.
I'd put RPG as the 2nd best line since the lockout behind only Heatley - Spezza - Alfreddson.

You could make an argument for a few more at #2 but I'm going to homer, and I don't think #1 is debatable.

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09-28-2011, 08:01 PM
  #395
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I'd put RPG as the 2nd best line since the lockout behind only Heatley - Spezza - Alfreddson.

You could make an argument for a few more at #2 but I'm going to homer, and I don't think #1 is debatable.
Well if Speatleysson was #1, then wouldn't Pahlsson's line be the true #1?

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09-28-2011, 08:29 PM
  #396
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Well if Speatleysson was #1, then wouldn't Pahlsson's line be the true #1?
Boom.

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09-28-2011, 09:36 PM
  #397
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I'd take RPG over the Pizza line...

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09-29-2011, 11:09 AM
  #398
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Underager Devante Smith-Pelley (Miss-St. Mike's) has played well enough for ANA that he is expected to travel with Ducks to Europe.

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Old
09-29-2011, 11:21 AM
  #399
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I disagree completely. The way to convince pests/goons/enforcers to leave your skill players alone is not to beat the crap out of the pest/goon/enforcer. It's to take runs at his skilled teammates and inform them whose fault it is they are getting beaten on until THEY tell the pest to cool it. Duco's targets have been players like Hall and Visnovsky. The Sedins won't make it through the season if he continues his antics.
But enforcers typically have their code. If Duco faces up for whatever he does that is seen as over the line, I don't think the stars will get run.

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09-29-2011, 11:32 AM
  #400
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Rodney on waivers.

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