HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Further Comments on HF's Rangers Top 20

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-28-2011, 06:35 PM
  #1
Leslie Treff
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
Further Comments on HF's Rangers Top 20

Yesterday, Hockey’s Future published the Fall Top 20 of Rangers’ prospects (find it here: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article..._york_rangers/), and I noticed that there has been very little discussion of it. So, I wonder are we all basically in agreement or am I so far off base in everyone’s mind, they are not even bothering to comment. The blog [...]

More...

Leslie Treff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 06:41 PM
  #2
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 22,661
vCash: 500
Awards:
They look pretty solid to me. I'd bump Thomas down a few spots, as his bust factor is pretty high IMO. And I've never been impressed by Chad Johnson, so I would probably have him down near the bottom of the top 20.

I'm sure the reason for lack of discussion is due to people not realizing it was updated!

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 06:55 PM
  #3
Fitzy
All Is Well
 
Fitzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,837
vCash: 50
I think you have McDonagh a little low. Chad Johnson is high, as I don't think he should even be in the top 20.

Thomas is quite high.

Fitzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 07:04 PM
  #4
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 12,979
vCash: 500
I can't put Thomas above either McDonagh or Erixon. And, I think Miller will end passing Thomas in next year's poll. I also think McColgan should be higher.

jas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 08:28 PM
  #5
UAGoalieGuy
Registered User
 
UAGoalieGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Long Island,New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,637
vCash: 500
Yeah I think McD should have been higher. He has top 4 potential and was already playing top 4 minutes for half of a season in the NHL. He should easily be a HF Top 50 Prospect when the new list comes out because of these facts but he probably will not due to the fact that Kreider, Thomas, and Erixon would all have to be on the list before him, which I don't see happening.

I honestly would flip-flop Thomas and McD and keep the rest of the top 5 the same:

1. Kreider
2. McD
3. Erixon
4. Thomas
5. Miller

UAGoalieGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 08:42 PM
  #6
Bird Law
Daisy's back.
 
Bird Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 71,417
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Bird Law
Quote:
Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
Yeah I think McD should have been higher. He has top 4 potential and was already playing top 4 minutes for half of a season in the NHL. He should easily be a HF Top 50 Prospect when the new list comes out because of these facts but he probably will not due to the fact that Kreider, Thomas, and Erixon would all have to be on the list before him, which I don't see happening.

I honestly would flip-flop Thomas and McD and keep the rest of the top 5 the same:

1. Kreider
2. McD
3. Erixon
4. Thomas
5. Miller
Agreed. There is no logical reason to have McD at 4. None.

Leslie, for some reason you have never been overly high on McDonagh. But now that he's proven his worth as a NHL d-man, I don't get how you can still not believe in him. It's a little bit bewildering and makes no real sense.

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
"Used to be only Twinkies and cockroaches could survive a nuke. I'd add Habs to that. I'm convinced the CH stands for Club du Hypocrisy." - Gee Wally
Bird Law is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 08:43 PM
  #7
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 22,661
vCash: 500
Awards:
Also, I just updated the file for the scrolling marquee up top. It should be updated soon. Thanks Leslie.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 08:46 PM
  #8
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 27,961
vCash: 500
I know McIlrath is raw and all, but I still think he has to at least be in that top-5 group, it would nice to see ALL 1st rounders up there in the top-5.

Kreider
McDonagh
Erixon
McIlrath
Miller

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 08:47 PM
  #9
Tawnos
Moderator
BoH Mod Only
 
Tawnos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 11,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Agreed. There is no logical reason to have McD at 4. None.

Leslie, for some reason you have never been overly high on McDonagh. But now that he's proven his worth as a NHL d-man, I don't get how you can still not believe in him. It's a little bit bewildering and makes no real sense.

I'm not worried about McD, but he's not actually proven yet after 40 games.

Chad Johnson is way too high on there though.

Tawnos is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 08:53 PM
  #10
rangersfan111
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 290
vCash: 500
Honestly Leslie your the best but you overrate the rangers prospects. Christian Thomas has an 8.0D ...8.0 is the same as evgeny kuznetsov and gabriel landeskog. People need to keep in mind that Christian Thomas like Tyler Toffoli succeeded because they were playing in the eastern conference in the OHL. Playing against the petes, bulls, wolves, frontenacs and colts for half their games. Playing against this weaker competition pads their stats. I just can't see Christian Thomas as a first line player... no chance. Kreider is still overrated in my opinion. Until he puts up acceptable numbers in college he can't be given an 8.0 ... speed and size are not everything. If these guys are 8.0's guys like mikael granlund, brayden schenn, vladimir tarasenko should be given at least 9.0's.
That's just my 2 cents. Tim Erixon and McDonaugh had proper grades with great writeups and I enjoyed reading the rest of your list.

rangersfan111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 08:57 PM
  #11
Bird Law
Daisy's back.
 
Bird Law's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Country Roads
Country: United States
Posts: 71,417
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Bird Law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I'm not worried about McD, but he's not actually proven yet after 40 games.

Chad Johnson is way too high on there though.
No, he's pretty proven. You don't drop off the face of the planet with a defensive game. Offensive? Sure. Defensive? About as rare as a white elephant.

Bird Law is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 09:02 PM
  #12
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 22,661
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangersfan111 View Post
Honestly Leslie your the best but you overrate the rangers prospects. Christian Thomas has an 8.0D ...8.0 is the same as evgeny kuznetsov and gabriel landeskog. People need to keep in mind that Christian Thomas like Tyler Toffoli succeeded because they were playing in the eastern conference in the OHL. Playing against the petes, bulls, wolves, frontenacs and colts for half their games. Playing against this weaker competition pads their stats. I just can't see Christian Thomas as a first line player... no chance. Kreider is still overrated in my opinion. Until he puts up acceptable numbers in college he can't be given an 8.0 ... speed and size are not everything. If these guys are 8.0's guys like mikael granlund, brayden schenn, vladimir tarasenko should be given at least 9.0's.
That's just my 2 cents. Tim Erixon and McDonaugh had proper grades with great writeups and I enjoyed reading the rest of your list.
I can understand disagreeing with a couple rankings, but do know that Leslie is one of the most conservative and reasonable staff writers on HF. People typically complain that she's too harsh on our prospects!

FWIW, the rankings are more than just the number--the letter grade is just as important. A rating of 8.0C means that the player is a First-Line Forward/No. 2 Defenseman/No. 1 Goaltender (the 8.0), that may reach his potential but could drop two number ranks (the C). Dropping two ranks would make a player a third liner/bottom pair defenseman/backup goalie. A player with a D rating is unlikely to reach his potential and could drop three levels, putting them as a healthy scratch-type player. So the difference between an 8.0C and 8.0D is actually pretty significant.

Full explanation of the rankings here: http://www.hockeysfuture.com/playerprojections/

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 09:03 PM
  #13
iamitter
Thornton's Hen
 
iamitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,358
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangersfan111 View Post
Honestly Leslie your the best but you overrate the rangers prospects. Christian Thomas has an 8.0D ...8.0 is the same as evgeny kuznetsov and gabriel landeskog. People need to keep in mind that Christian Thomas like Tyler Toffoli succeeded because they were playing in the eastern conference in the OHL. Playing against the petes, bulls, wolves, frontenacs and colts for half their games. Playing against this weaker competition pads their stats. I just can't see Christian Thomas as a first line player... no chance. Kreider is still overrated in my opinion. Until he puts up acceptable numbers in college he can't be given an 8.0 ... speed and size are not everything. If these guys are 8.0's guys like mikael granlund, brayden schenn, vladimir tarasenko should be given at least 9.0's.
That's just my 2 cents. Tim Erixon and McDonaugh had proper grades with great writeups and I enjoyed reading the rest of your list.
I don't think his grade is bad at all. If Thomas makes it in this league, he will be a top 6 forward. If he doesn't, he won't make it at all.

iamitter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 09:04 PM
  #14
Leslie Treff
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
This is the first Top 20 that I am in a quandary on in quite a few years. I think that most of us agree that Thomas has first line potential, so unless someone else has first line of pairing potential, I generally don't put them ahead of a first line/pairing guy. On the other hand, Thomas may be considered to be less certain than I would hope--thus the D in the rating.

As I explained, I think that Erixon may have a higher offensive upside than McDonagh. McDonagh was actually traded to the Rangers at least in part because Montreal realized that he was not going to be the offensive defenseman that they drafted him as. And I don't think he will. He is going to be a really solid second pairing two-way guy. I don't understand why some folks think that I am down on him. I am not at all. I love his game; its just that I think that Erixon may provide more offense, so that gives him an edge in my mind.

I am not sure where to put McIlrath. But he is trending upward.

Johnson may very well be too high, but a lot will depend on what he does in the next couple of months. If he puts on a show like his rookie season, I think he may become an NHL backup, if not in New York, then somewhere else, while other players in his range may not make the NHL at all.

Leslie Treff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 09:09 PM
  #15
Leslie Treff
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
And BTW, I dropped Kreider's ranking from 8.5 to 8.0. Remember he has played in international competition, including the men's tourney and done very well. I do think that he is below some of the other top prospects in the league, so I dropped him to an 8.0. But frankly, he may just be a little raw, and he is truly an 8.5.

We shall see.

Leslie Treff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 09:12 PM
  #16
alkurtz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Mahopac, NY
Posts: 876
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
No, he's pretty proven. You don't drop off the face of the planet with a defensive game. Offensive? Sure. Defensive? About as rare as a white elephant.
I have utmost confidence that McD will follow up last years excellent play with more of the same.

And I would tend to agree that young offensive D have more of a chance to backslide than defensive D.

But I don't think it is as uncommon as you think for even defensive minded second year D to backslide. Hope it doesn't happen here.

As for Thomas and Miller. I think CT is rated highly because he has (here comes that hated word) first line potential. Whether it ever happens remains to be seen.

And while I have been super impressed with JTM and see him as more of a sure thing than CT, I see him more as an excellent second line player in the manner of Dubinsky.

So I guess its a matter of how you personally rank prospects: by potential or by certainty.

I remain super hign on Kreider and have come around to the pro McIlrath side. I see him as a solid NHL D in a few years.

alkurtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 09:51 PM
  #17
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
I think you have McDonagh a little low. Chad Johnson is high, as I don't think he should even be in the top 20.

Thomas is quite high.
Thomas as our 2nd rated prospect is ridiculous. He may very well turn out to be a bust. My top 5 would be
Kreider
McDonagh
Erickson
JT Miller
Mcilrath

Can't put Erickson ahead of McD who's already a solid 2nd pair guy. I don't see Erickson ever being as good a defenseman as McD.
Mcilrath showed me a lot in the pre season game against the Devils. If he continues to make the strides he has made this past year, he will be exactly what this team has been missing since Beuk's days.

Drewbackatu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 10:56 PM
  #18
BrooklynRangersFan
Change is good.
 
BrooklynRangersFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn of course
Country: United States
Posts: 10,057
vCash: 500
I love this current crop of Rangers prospects (especially when counting prospects as defined by HF). Honestly, I don't know if I've been this enthused about the Rangers' pipeline since right after we had drafted Brendl and Lundmark (despite how that worked out).

I think people lose sight of just how good they are because A) they're already used to them on the big club and don't think of them as prospects (e.g. McD), B) didn't appear in camp due to NCAA/SEL commitments (e.g. Kreider, Fasth) or C) are still quite young (e.g. Thomas, Miller).

Especially those last two categories - I love our picks from the last two drafts. I have to admit I'm even warming up to McIlrath (when I make myself forget that Tarasenko was available).

BrooklynRangersFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 10:59 PM
  #19
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 7,877
vCash: 500
Weise should be where Johnson is. CJ and Vally should not be on the list, and Parlett should be. Otherwise very good.


Last edited by Beacon: 09-28-2011 at 11:45 PM.
Beacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-28-2011, 11:10 PM
  #20
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 7,877
vCash: 500
This is arguably our strongest prospect corps in two decades since we had Amonte, Weight, Zubov, etc coming up the pipeline in the early 90s.

Is this bunch stronger than the class that produced Staal, Sauer, Dubi and Cally? Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly has the potential to produce at least 4 (or even 8) above average NHLers. We'll see how it works out, but I'll say this: the "Class of 2005" prospects didn't look as good in 2005 as the "Class of 2011" prospects.

The more I think about it, the more it seems like this is the best prospect class we've had since HF was started.

Beacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:39 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.