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Avery an embarrassment to the team

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Old
09-28-2011, 06:57 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
Could you please quote my personal attacks? Show me exactly where Brendan Shannahan has spoken out against Sean Avery? I know for a fact that Chris Drury claimed that his problem with Avery doing that to Brodeur was based solely on the fact that he was worried Sean was going to take a penalty. I guess that's one up for me since you have nothing that supports your claims.

Shanahan was anxious to take over for Campbell because he wanted to clean up the game from guys like Avery? You're insane. Shanny wanted a job in hockey. And if you'd like to spend your time giving me a list of all the vile, suspendable, dangerous things that Avery has done on the ice that Shanny needs to clean up I'd love to sit here and listen.

Avery has never been a dirty player. There's zero for Shanny to clean up with him.

Why do you resort to far fetched nonsense to try and prove your point?

Why don't you and everyone else just come out and say you don't like the guy?

That's all you have to say. But instead time and time again you guys sit here and try and act like you like the guy and he just interferes with some sort of right and wrong that burns in your souls.

Just tells us all you don't like him and be done with it.
There was an article awhile back that gave us a glimpse into Avery, what he does and says. Shanahan was in it, just trying to have a post game conversation with an opposing player when Avery came in and was a dick to the guy. Shanny was (understandably) displeased.

Not set in stone, but it wouldn't surprise me if the two weren't exactly buddy-buddy.

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09-28-2011, 06:58 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
No, that's not what I implied at all.... I said if a player like Avery were on the Devils or Flyers and pulling Avery's antics (diviing, embellishing injuries, refusing to drop the gloves when squaring off) against our players, our entire fan base would be moaning and groaning about it and we all know that's true... No Ranger fan would be sitting here and saying it's perfectly acceptable because our player (Avery) does the same... Anyone who says that is wearing their Rangers' colored glasses for sure... Nobody would let Patrick Kaleta get a free pass acting like that, nobody would let Ruutu get a free pass either... It's no different than when Ryan Hollweg would repeatedly deliver dangerous boarding hits towards the end of his Rangers tenure... Very few Ranger fans speaking out against those hits, because it was our player delivering them... Had any of our Ranger players been on the receiving end of those hits, they'd be calling for the player's head and a 10 game suspension.... Maybe I'm a different breed but I like to do my best to view things objectively and not let bias creep into my opinions... It would feel pretty disingenuous to me to have a double standard for my own team's players and outwardly criticize opposing players for doing the same things, however my take is that a lot of fans don't see any issue with that....
But why do you think that people don't get on someone like Avery for diving? From what I've seen/read everytime he has everyone floods the GDT with

Just because people don't harp on it for a year doesn't mean that we agree with it.

Your objectivity is fine. But assuming that fans of a team are going to constantly criticize a player on their own team the same as someone on another is a little naive.

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09-28-2011, 07:01 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
No, that's not what I implied at all.... I said if a player like Avery were on the Devils or Flyers and pulling Avery's antics (diviing, embellishing injuries, refusing to drop the gloves when squaring off) against our players, our entire fan base would be moaning and groaning about it and we all know that's true... No Ranger fan would be sitting here and saying it's perfectly acceptable because our player (Avery) does the same... Anyone who says that is wearing their Rangers' colored glasses for sure... Nobody would let Patrick Kaleta get a free pass acting like that, nobody would let Ruutu get a free pass either... It's no different than when Ryan Hollweg would repeatedly deliver dangerous boarding hits towards the end of his Rangers tenure... Very few Ranger fans speaking out against those hits, because it was our player delivering them... Had any of our Ranger players been on the receiving end of those hits, they'd be calling for the player's head and a 10 game suspension.... Maybe I'm a different breed but I like to do my best to view things objectively and not let bias creep into my opinions... It would feel pretty disingenuous to me to have a double standard for my own team's players and outwardly criticize opposing players for doing the same things, however my take is that a lot of fans don't see any issue with that....
I'm objective. When Hollweg boarded people, I said it was despicable. I said Purinton should be banned from the league. Accordingly, I wouldn't complain about Avery antics if they were being performed against us by an opponent. You can tell me I'm wearing Rangers-tinted glasses all you want, but you don't know my personal opinions better than I do.

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09-28-2011, 07:08 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
There was an article awhile back that gave us a glimpse into Avery, what he does and says. Shanahan was in it, just trying to have a post game conversation with an opposing player when Avery came in and was a dick to the guy. Shanny was (understandably) displeased.

Not set in stone, but it wouldn't surprise me if the two weren't exactly buddy-buddy.
That's fine. I wouldn't expect Avery to be buddy-buddy with anyone on an opposing team. As far as I know, when they were teammates there was no issue.

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09-28-2011, 07:14 PM
  #330
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Avery doesnt do much suspension worthy stuff anyways. He isn't Matt Cooke. He isn't even Matthew Barnaby.

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09-28-2011, 07:22 PM
  #331
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i know one thing, this is his last season here with the NYR, maybe even the NHL. Hopefully he'll get pushed out of the lineup before the season starts.

ruckus, you can always stop by his restarant, order some chicken fingers and not pay...

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09-28-2011, 07:28 PM
  #332
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i know one thing, this is his last season here with the NYR, maybe even the NHL. Hopefully he'll get pushed out of the lineup before the season starts.

ruckus, you can always stop by his restarant, order some chicken fingers and not pay...
He's here under contract for this year. Hopefully he steps up and has a great season.

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09-28-2011, 07:41 PM
  #333
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He's here under contract for this year. Hopefully he steps up and has a great season.
i just said that. thx.

nah. Tort's got his number. he'll be riding pine.

besides he needs his free time to advocate.

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09-28-2011, 07:46 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I'm objective. When Hollweg boarded people, I said it was despicable. I said Purinton should be banned from the league. Accordingly, I wouldn't complain about Avery antics if they were being performed against us by an opponent. You can tell me I'm wearing Rangers-tinted glasses all you want, but you don't know my personal opinions better than I do.
I didn't imply you weren't being objective, and I said, quote "very few Ranger fans spoke out against those hits", as in the large majority of fans more or less were quiet about them.... Now if our guys were on the receiving end of those hits, our fans would be livid. Wouldn't you agree there's an obvious double standard at play when it involves our own players vs. other team's players? Crosby was allegedly the biggest crybaby diver in the league, but it was perfectly acceptable to most when Avery was guilty of the same diving and embellishment, but not a peep from our fan base?

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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
Avery doesnt do much suspension worthy stuff anyways. He isn't Matt Cooke. He isn't even Matthew Barnaby.
Nope, just stuff that makes the players in the league despise him and vote him the most hated player in the league. Even the majority of the Stars team couldn't stand him, and that's saying a lot because those guys were teammates of his when he was with the organization... Even our players found a way to have an amicable relationship with Donald Brashear while he was a Ranger, even after all the crap he pulled against our team (sucker punches and general goonery).


Last edited by wolfgaze: 09-28-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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09-28-2011, 08:01 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Crosby was allegedly the biggest crybaby diver in the league, but it was perfectly acceptable to most when Avery was guilty of the same diving and embellishment, but not a peep from our fan base?
Difference is when Crosby dives the Penguins get a powerplay, when Avery dives nothing happens or he gets the penalty. And conversely Crosby can slash and cross check all he wants and doesn't get called for it. It's the Crosby double standard that people hate.

If every time Avery dove the Rangers actually got a powerplay I would want him to do it every shift. Or maybe not, considering our PP

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09-28-2011, 08:11 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I didn't imply you weren't being objective, and I said, quote "very few Ranger fans spoke out against those hits", as in the large majority of fans more or less were quiet about them.... Now if our guys were on the receiving end of those hits, our fans would be livid. Wouldn't you agree there's an obvious double standard at play when it involves our own players vs. other team's players? Crosby was allegedly the biggest crybaby diver in the league, but it was perfectly acceptable to most when Avery was guilty of the same diving and embellishment, but not a peep from our fan base?
And before that, you said, "our entire fan base would be moaning and groaning." Prior to that, you said that if a Devils player were doing what Avery did, "we would all be speaking out against it." Your first couple statements were all-inclusive. There are objective posters such as myself on the other side of this argument.

I can't get into a "most" discussion about how many people call out Avery and how many call out Crosby. I really don't know. I do know that a ton of people criticize Avery here, so even then I'd hesitate to say "most."

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09-28-2011, 08:14 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
i just said that. thx.

nah. Tort's got his number. he'll be riding pine.

besides he needs his free time to advocate.
So why wouldn't you root for him to succeed while he's here? I'm rooting for him to put together a performance like he did during his first season and a half with us. Is that likely? Probably not. Is it likely that someone else pushes him off the roster? The early returns aren't good, as Avery has been one of our best forwards and the younger forwards have done nothing to distinguish themselves. I'm rooting for the guys already on the team to succeed.

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09-28-2011, 08:16 PM
  #338
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Claude Lemieux who's last season with NJ was back in 1995? How were you gauging Devil fans opinions on the subject matter back in '95, basing it off of those you knew???

I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade regardless of my allegiance to a particular team, and I'm glad some others on here aren't hesitant to do the same.... Avery pulls clownish antics on the ice that a lot of players don't respect or appreciate, and I'm not just talking about his opponents.... Anyone think Shanny would support his teammates goating other players into fights and then refusing to drop the gloves? Did Drury respect/support Avery trying to deliberately screen the goaltender with his stick? Some players have respect for the game and operate with integrity, others clearly don't....
Shanny and Avery went back to the Red Wings. They're pals--and it's not just because they're both Irish.

As far as Drury is concerned I was never a fan but even in Drury's case no one has really ever shown that Avery was a problem in the locker room. In Avery's time as a Ranger only Valiquette really ever came out with anything negative about Sean though Christensen kind of threw him under the bus last year. Neither of those players has ever been a core guy and Christensen strikes me as a little strange.

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09-28-2011, 08:28 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Shanny and Avery went back to the Red Wings. They're pals--and it's not just because they're both Irish.

As far as Drury is concerned I was never a fan but even in Drury's case no one has really ever shown that Avery was a problem in the locker room. In Avery's time as a Ranger only Valiquette really ever came out with anything negative about Sean though Christensen kind of threw him under the bus last year. Neither of those players has ever been a core guy and Christensen strikes me as a little strange.
Christensen has thrown other guys under the bus, too. Not just Avery. He's a coward. A weak, spineless blob of jelly. He can't leave soon enough, if you ask me.

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09-28-2011, 08:29 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post

As far as Drury is concerned I was never a fan but even in Drury's case no one has really ever shown that Avery was a problem in the locker room. In Avery's time as a Ranger only Valiquette really ever came out with anything negative about Sean though Christensen kind of threw him under the bus last year. Neither of those players has ever been a core guy and Christensen strikes me as a little strange.
I wasn't a fan of Drury's either, it's not a matter of a player being a problem in the lockerroom in terms of not getting along with his teammates, there are certain things done on the ice that the other players in the league have no respect for... And Avery does a lot of them... That's why the players voted him the most hated player in the league, above players who have reputations for dirty hits and players who have lengthy suspension records.... That says a lot...

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09-28-2011, 08:33 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Difference is when Crosby dives the Penguins get a powerplay, when Avery dives nothing happens or he gets the penalty. And conversely Crosby can slash and cross check all he wants and doesn't get called for it. It's the Crosby double standard that people hate.
Noted observation but it's the act that annoys me independent of the result...

Quote:
If every time Avery dove the Rangers actually got a powerplay I would want him to do it every shift. Or maybe not, considering our PP
No integrity involved in diving....

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09-28-2011, 08:35 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Christensen has thrown other guys under the bus, too. Not just Avery. He's a coward. A weak, spineless blob of jelly. He can't leave soon enough, if you ask me.
there is a reason Christencrap was on many teams but there was also a reason Cory Stillman was on many teams...but for different reasons......

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09-28-2011, 08:39 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I wasn't a fan of Drury's either, it's not a matter of a player being a problem in the lockerroom in terms of not getting along with his teammates, there are certain things done on the ice that the other players in the league have no respect for... And Avery does a lot of them... That's why the players voted him the most hated player in the league, above players who have reputations for dirty hits and players who have lengthy suspension records.... That says a lot...
Other players on other teams--whatever! I mean who really ****ing cares? The pest role didn't start with Avery you know. This has been going on forever. Bert Olmstead--his teammates even hated him. Bryan 'Bugsy' Watson was universally reviled. Bobby Hull couldn't have loathed a player any more than he loathed Watson. Derek Sanderson? Paul Baxter? Ken Linseman? I'll ask you do you really think that Sean has taken this to a new level? because I don't. I think I'd agree with you if he was more like Matt Cooke or Kaleta who actually seem to want to hurt other players. Avery is nasty--but he doesn't try to hurt players and he plays to win. There's not this--oh well, christmas is around the corner, we'll worry about the wins afterwards with Avery or the Christensen thing of I'll show up every 4 or 5 games. The endgame for me is if Sean can help us win games I want him on the ****ing team. If I don't think he can help us win games--then no.

There's no real moral to winning Stanley Cups. Your team either wins or it doesn't. I don't know if he's going to be a part of a Rangers Stanley Cup winning team but even if he gets us a step closer that is something. For now IMO he's part of the picture.

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09-28-2011, 08:48 PM
  #344
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And speaking of absolute *******s--how many of you have been watching P. K. Subban and you're crazy if you wouldn't want him on your team. And yeah he acts like he's going to fight and then doesn't and is every bit as nasty as Avery and goads opponents into taking penalties. Avery has some decent talent but Subban is a couple levels above that. Reminds me of Chelios.

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09-28-2011, 08:53 PM
  #345
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No integrity involved in diving....
Where does your integrity start? If Avery draws a penalty in the NHL finals by diving and the Rangers score a Cup clinching goal. Do you say he has integrity at that point? Or do you say the Cup victory is tarnished?

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09-28-2011, 08:53 PM
  #346
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I hope Avery is on PK Subban's case whenever we play the Habs.

Subban's talented as hell, but he is a pain in the you-know-what.

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09-28-2011, 09:02 PM
  #347
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You know what? The NUMBER ONE reason why I absolutely LOVE Sean Avery is because of how easily he pisses off stupid people.

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09-28-2011, 09:20 PM
  #348
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You know what? The NUMBER ONE reason why I absolutely LOVE Sean Avery is because of how easily he pisses off stupid people.
lol, I am with you on this.

It's comical the reactions he generates from even his own fan base, however small a percentage that may be.

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09-28-2011, 09:27 PM
  #349
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Other players on other teams--whatever! I mean who really ****ing cares? The pest role didn't start with Avery you know. This has been going on forever. Bert Olmstead--his teammates even hated him. Bryan 'Bugsy' Watson was universally reviled. Bobby Hull couldn't have loathed a player any more than he loathed Watson. Derek Sanderson? Paul Baxter? Ken Linseman? I'll ask you do you really think that Sean has taken this to a new level? because I don't. I think I'd agree with you if he was more like Matt Cooke or Kaleta who actually seem to want to hurt other players. Avery is nasty--but he doesn't try to hurt players and he plays to win. There's not this--oh well, christmas is around the corner, we'll worry about the wins afterwards with Avery or the Christensen thing of I'll show up every 4 or 5 games. The endgame for me is if Sean can help us win games I want him on the ****ing team. If I don't think he can help us win games--then no.

There's no real moral to winning Stanley Cups. Your team either wins or it doesn't. I don't know if he's going to be a part of a Rangers Stanley Cup winning team but even if he gets us a step closer that is something. For now IMO he's part of the picture.
I'm not disputing what you said above, I'm making a point about the way Avery conducts himself out on the ice, the majority of the players in the league have no respect for him for a reason... The players like Kaleta & Cooke absolutely should be the most hated players in the game because they deliver dangerous hits that are worthy of suspensions, but instead, the players vote a guy like Avery instead... If that doesn't speak volumes about the reasons why players, coaches, and the refs have problems with Sean Avery and how he conducts himself out on the ice, I don't know what will.... The point is that he doesn't need to do any of the crap that garners him all the negative attention, to be an effective hockey player, and I'm not talking about trash-talking.... We know he can throw big hits, play hard, pot some occasional goals and create some plays..... He has **** for brains and **** for focus.... Just like last night when he doesn't know when to shut his yap and he goes and gets an unsportsmanlike penalty after previously drawing a penalty.... He's imploded and shot himself in the foot many times... He stated in an interview that he did things in Dallas to make the situation worse, once he felt alienated by the team...

Quote:
"Once I felt that and had that feeling of almost isolation, I subconsciously started acting in a way that would push people away and that made the situation worse."It was kind of a defensive tactic more than anything. Anytime you're feeling a little uncertain, like your back is to the wall, you react in a defensive way. That's how I coped."

Link Who does that to an organization deliberately, honestly? That's some juvenile crap.... Avery hasn't the slightest clue how to operate and conduct himself like a professional.... Can anyone tell me why Avery hasn't caught a clue and taken notes from Brandon Prust? Prust is all business, he plays hard, goes hard, does not shy away from scrums after the whistle, and drops the gloves and takes care of his business when he needs to... No skirmishes during warm-ups, no slapping goaltenders in the helmet with his stick behind the play, no diving, no embellishing, and no drawing the negative attention of the refs..... Prust is a respected member of this organization and he has the trust of the coaching staff.... Why is it that Avery can't trash talk AND play the game like Prust out on the ice? Oh yeah, Tortorella's leash

I've lost a lot of faith in Avery.... No doubt even if Glen Sather wanted to bring him back after his contract expired, he would undoubtedly ask for clearly more money than he's worth, burn his bridges, and find himself either out of the league, or playing for some bottom dwelling team that needs to reach the cap floor...

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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
And speaking of absolute *******s--how many of you have been watching P. K. Subban and you're crazy if you wouldn't want him on your team. And yeah he acts like he's going to fight and then doesn't and is every bit as nasty as Avery and goads opponents into taking penalties. Avery has some decent talent but Subban is a couple levels above that. Reminds me of Chelios.
Subban can back up his antics with his play as a top 4 defenseman who contributes in multiple facets of the game.... Avery shows up once every 4-5 games and starts skirmishes during warm-ups?

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Where does your integrity start? If Avery draws a penalty in the NHL finals by diving and the Rangers score a Cup clinching goal. Do you say he has integrity at that point? Or do you say the Cup victory is tarnished?
I'd be quite p***ed off if that's how it played out.... You don't do that crap, plain and simple...


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09-28-2011, 09:29 PM
  #350
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lol, I am with you on this.

It's comical the reactions he generates from even his own fan base, however small a percentage that may be.
So the rest of the players in the league hate him, a lot of coaches dislike him, the refs can't stand him, and the fans around the league hate him, but it's comical if any Ranger fans take issue with him?

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