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Habs experimenting Plekanec and Kostitsyn as point men on the PP?

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Old
09-28-2011, 09:49 PM
  #51
uiCk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post


Moen an energy guy? In the Stanley Cup playoffs? After seeing all season that Moen on a line with Gionta and Gomez was a failure?

If you call that useless rambling, can I call your post blind devotion to a failed coach?
Moen was the closest thing to "energy" guy who can create some space, thus the use of quotations. Kostopulous and Neil are other examples come to mind. i don't understand how thats "blind devotion" to a failed (LOL!) coach, considering every time a coach puts on a guy like moen, neil, they do it to reignite certain players/lines. Obviously youre right, Martin put moen on top line because he doesnt know what to do, not because he was trying to put spark on first line, what a bizzare thing for coach to do, eh?


Last edited by hototogisu: 09-29-2011 at 08:07 AM. Reason: not needed
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Old
09-28-2011, 10:06 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It's not the 1 way contract...it's that he would have to pass waivers...he'd get snatched up in a second.
that was the point of my reference to the 1 way contract

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09-28-2011, 10:23 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
that was the point of my reference to the 1 way contract
Contracts have nothing to do with waivers. It just means he'd get paid the same in the NHL and AHL.

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09-28-2011, 10:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Martin............
What's wrong with the pp lines? I also think those are the best options, our best shooters are Subban and Kostitsyn, no?

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09-28-2011, 11:06 PM
  #55
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Markov, and subban are locks for the first unit. Campoli would be a nice 2nd pairing option if he can play full time... same with weber. I even see promise with yemelin on the 2nd pairing.

I dont think the habs need to resort to having a forward on the blueline unless injuries strike hard.

Plekanec was used back there last year and he clearly looked more effective from the halfboards. Akost has that big shot, but he's not good enough at getting it on net. He can be a little erratic from back there.

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09-29-2011, 07:30 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lupes View Post
Ah, is that so, so they are only being experimented to play on the point for PP to replace Markov. I was kind of surprised that they would actually be used on Even strength, which wouldn't be a bad thing since both are capable of playing exceptional defence but that would only leave a huge hole open on the #1 center spot.

Thanks for the insight and have a great season.
Bob Gainey was one of the best defensive players ever and once the Habs were forced to use him as a D man for a short time and it wasnt good.

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09-29-2011, 07:35 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain G View Post
The 2 units were :

Cammalleri - DD - Cole
Subban - Plekanec

Pacioretty - Gomez - Gionta
Campoli - Kostitsyn

I'm really excited by those decisions...hopefully it'll go well.
Hopefully Subban and AK can get their shots off quicker this year.

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09-29-2011, 07:40 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
that was the point of my reference to the 1 way contract
Waivers has to do with pro service time, not the type of contract. Henry Lawson Wilsie and co had to pass waivers and they have 2 ways.

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09-29-2011, 08:23 AM
  #59
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He is a leafs fan so his confusion is understandable.

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09-29-2011, 08:54 AM
  #60
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Not a fan of either AK or Plek on the PP point but I understand why it's being tried. But if I remember correctly there was nothing gained last year with Plek on the point. If AK would be SK then yes - that seemed to be more beneficial without removing a key "half board" component to play the point.

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09-29-2011, 09:15 AM
  #61
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What about Desharnais at the point? Probably the best vison on the team.

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09-29-2011, 09:27 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
Guys don't forget that Yemelin, Weber and Campoli all have hard slapshots
I don't think slapshots are the problem on the first wave as Subban has that locked in until Markov returns and might mess it up a bit as they both play same side of PP.. I thiknk the problem is, is that they want someone with a bit of vision to quarterback the PP.. PK has been getting better on PP but he has lacked a little in creativity from the point

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09-29-2011, 09:40 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Hopefully Subban and AK can get their shots off quicker this year.
You have a good point with AK. He's got a hard and precise wrister, but he needs time to unload it. I would get very nervous to see him on the point. And I just can't remember him one timing the puck... not sure if he can do it!!

Subban is actually pretty good at one timing while skating backward. He scored many of his goals that way last year.

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09-29-2011, 09:48 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Monaco88 View Post
What about Desharnais at the point? Probably the best vison on the team.
I watched Desharnais a few time with the Bulldogs and the guy is at his best when playing down low, near and around the net. If he's to play on our PP, it has to be at that position.

Plekanec is very well suited for the point. He didn't look good last year, but it was all new for him. He can do it.

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09-29-2011, 10:12 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by IWalkThroughWalls View Post
I watched Desharnais a few time with the Bulldogs and the guy is at his best when playing down low, near and around the net. If he's to play on our PP, it has to be at that position.

Plekanec is very well suited for the point. He didn't look good last year, but it was all new for him. He can do it.
was gonna say exactly this.

desharnais is at his best playing behind the net

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Old
09-29-2011, 10:34 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
was gonna say exactly this.

desharnais is at his best playing behind the net
Yup. He's small, but sneaky and opportune. He knows where to be, and when to be there.

Plus, he always seems to surprise the opposing D by actually being where he is.

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Old
09-29-2011, 11:28 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
What's wrong with the pp lines? I also think those are the best options, our best shooters are Subban and Kostitsyn, no?
My biggest concern/complaint is with having a forward on the point. If you look at the most successful power plays, it is because of great passing and a strong net presence. Sure, there are goals being scored from the points but I think that Kostitsyn and Plekanec would be more successful in front of the net and or the slot.

I dont see the need to reinvent the wheel by putting forwards at the points. We have DMen who can handle that job. And, I dont really care to see the other teams racking up short handed goals because we have a forward on the point.

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09-29-2011, 11:34 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Moen was the closest thing to "energy" guy who can create some space, thus the use of quotations. Kostopulous and Neil are other examples come to mind. i don't understand how thats "blind devotion" to a failed (LOL!) coach, considering every time a coach puts on a guy like moen, neil, they do it to reignite certain players/lines. Obviously youre right, Martin put moen on top line because he doesnt know what to do, not because he was trying to put spark on first line, what a bizzare thing for coach to do, eh?
This kind of off topic so this will be my last reply regarding this. I dont disagree with occasionally using an energy guy on one of the top lines. Moen was not that guy. He was consistently placed on the Gionta/Gomez line during the regular season with no success for anyone on that line. It was a failure during the regular season and I was baffled that Martin returned to that combination in Game 3 of the playoffs against the Bruins. He effectively neutered Gomez and Gionta once that happened since Moen does not have the hands or the skills to play on that line.

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09-29-2011, 11:35 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
This kind of off topic so this will be my last reply regarding this. I dont disagree with occasionally using an energy guy on one of the top lines. Moen was not that guy. He was consistently placed on the Gionta/Gomez line during the regular season with no success for anyone on that line. It was a failure during the regular season and I was baffled that Martin returned to that combination in Game 3 of the playoffs against the Bruins. He effectively neutered Gomez and Gionta once that happened since Moen does not have the hands or the skills to play on that line.
Agreed. If I'm not mistaken, Moen made critical errors in the offensize zone leading to Bruins goals.

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09-29-2011, 11:47 AM
  #70
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Credit Olivier for digging up the data that made us realize that Martin's strategy was more complex than that. He was watching his matchups so closely that Moen was on the LW of Gomez-Gionta when they faced Bergeron (the Bruins' best forward), and Darche was used when the line faced either Krejci or Peverley.

Moen has no offensive skill, but he does have the defensive ability to match up against high-end players and not get destroyed. With the injuries piling up on the Habs, Martin was getting short of players able to do that. Moen wasn't his first option so much as the least bad of what he had left. Who could he use? AK, who was busy on the first line and had never worked on that line? Pouliot, who was a PK-generating machine and would have been in over his head against top-end players? Darche? Eller, who was doing a vital job holding up the centre? DD was the only viable expermiental option really, but Martin had barely started trying that out when he went down.

Adding Cole and Pacioretty is going to make a huge difference there.

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09-29-2011, 12:02 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Credit Olivier for digging up the data that made us realize that Martin's strategy was more complex than that. He was watching his matchups so closely that Moen was on the LW of Gomez-Gionta when they faced Bergeron (the Bruins' best forward), and Darche was used when the line faced either Krejci or Peverley.

Moen has no offensive skill, but he does have the defensive ability to match up against high-end players and not get destroyed. With the injuries piling up on the Habs, Martin was getting short of players able to do that. Moen wasn't his first option so much as the least bad of what he had left. Who could he use? AK, who was busy on the first line and had never worked on that line? Pouliot, who was a PK-generating machine and would have been in over his head against top-end players? Darche? Eller, who was doing a vital job holding up the centre? DD was the only viable expermiental option really, but Martin had barely started trying that out when he went down.

Adding Cole and Pacioretty is going to make a huge difference there.
I'm with you here.

It's not like when Bob Gainey decided to go with Laraque on the 1st line in 2009 playoffs against the Bruins, breaking the Tanguay-Koivu-Kovalev line that was red hot in the last stretch of the season... man, that was sad!! But I'm totally out of topic!

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09-29-2011, 12:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by IWalkThroughWalls View Post
I'm with you here.

It's not like when Bob Gainey decided to go with Laraque on the 1st line in 2009 playoffs against the Bruins, breaking the Tanguay-Koivu-Kovalev line that was red hot in the last stretch of the season... man, that was sad!! But I'm totally out of topic!
From what I remember, Tanguay should have been a scratch that series, based on how badly his shoulder was. The idea was to shelter him from the Bruins' top line (specifically Lucic, who was his match-up, and would have eaten him alive) while at the same time trying to neutralize Lucic by putting him up against Laraque.

Obviously it didn't work but at least there was a modicum of strategy behind the move...it's not like Gainey broke up the line for ****s and giggles.

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09-29-2011, 12:35 PM
  #73
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Plekanec wasn't very good there last year. I don't recall AK doing it much but SK used to be alright at it. I wish they would just use D-men.

Subban is key...like another poster said...double shift him or play him a minute and a half then give the scraps to someone else.

Subban 1:30

Weber/Campoli ~1:00 each

Yemelin ~:30 until he gets better adjusted to NA

Forwards at the point coughing up breakaways DO NOT WANT

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09-29-2011, 12:42 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
From what I remember, Tanguay should have been a scratch that series, based on how badly his shoulder was. The idea was to shelter him from the Bruins' top line (specifically Lucic, who was his match-up, and would have eaten him alive) while at the same time trying to neutralize Lucic by putting him up against Laraque.

Obviously it didn't work but at least there was a modicum of strategy behind the move...it's not like Gainey broke up the line for ****s and giggles.
I found the thread about it!

http://hfboards.com/archive/index.php/t-632578.html

It was indeed a strategy, just not a very good one.

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09-29-2011, 04:33 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Credit Olivier for digging up the data that made us realize that Martin's strategy was more complex than that. He was watching his matchups so closely that Moen was on the LW of Gomez-Gionta when they faced Bergeron (the Bruins' best forward), and Darche was used when the line faced either Krejci or Peverley.

Moen has no offensive skill, but he does have the defensive ability to match up against high-end players and not get destroyed. With the injuries piling up on the Habs, Martin was getting short of players able to do that. Moen wasn't his first option so much as the least bad of what he had left. Who could he use? AK, who was busy on the first line and had never worked on that line? Pouliot, who was a PK-generating machine and would have been in over his head against top-end players? Darche? Eller, who was doing a vital job holding up the centre? DD was the only viable expermiental option really, but Martin had barely started trying that out when he went down.

Adding Cole and Pacioretty is going to make a huge difference there.
And using Moen on that line was an extreme FAIL. Looking at Game 4 where we lost 5-4 in OT, Gomez was - 3, Gionta was -3 and Moen was -2. Bergeron was + 1 with a goal and an assist.

Gomez and Gionta were doing well in Games 1 and 2 with Darche (who has the ability to feed passes and accept passes without fumbling) and then Martin got the wild idea to go back to a failed experiment.

With all that said, I really like Moen for what he does. And his best fit which will allow him to be a valuable asset is playing on the 4th line. Anything else is setting him and his top 6 linemates up for failure.

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