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09-29-2011, 03:02 PM
  #151
Volcanologist
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Komisarek is the only bad contract on the roster.

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09-29-2011, 03:03 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
If I was Burke, I wouldn't give Bob McCown the time of day. This guy bashes the Leafs (and Burke for that matter) every chance he gets.
How dare he.

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09-29-2011, 03:05 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Komisarek is the only bad contract on the roster.
don't be surprised if he shows that he is more than just a bad contract to some, so far im getting a very positive vibe from this pre-season.

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09-29-2011, 03:07 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
leafs have only one fatty contract and it belongs to komi.

otherwise they are tight and ripped.

the rest of the players should have little problem producing up to or beyond their contracts.
No. They are fat from head to toe.

Last year, the Leafs were entering the season with the 3rd highest payroll spending. The return on that investment was a 21st place finish.

Compare that to a team like Carolina, who were 24th in the league in payroll, yet found themselves higher in the standings than the Leafs.

Quite clearly, we aren't getting the same bang for buck that teams like Tampa, LA, and Carolina are currently experiencing. It's a systemic issue for the Leafs that goes beyond Mike Komisarek. Once again, we are going into the season as one of the top spending teams on players (5th). I wonder what kind of return we will get? Nothing short of playoffs is acceptable for that amount of money being spent.


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09-29-2011, 03:14 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
No. They are fat from head to toe.

Last year, the Leafs were entering the season with the 3rd highest payroll spending. The return on that investment was a 21st place finish.

Compare that to a team like Carolina, who were 24th in the league in payroll, yet found themselves higher in the standings than the Leafs.

Quite clearly, we aren't getting the same bang for buck that teams like Tampa, LA, and Carolina are currently experiencing. It's a systemic issue for the Leafs that goes beyond Mike Komisarek.
You're comparing their spending at the start of the year to their finish at the end. That's apples and oranges, the players were radically different at the end. I also don't recall they were ever 3rd in spending, maybe only in your world.

You could also have 22 skaters that are playing excellent and among the best in the league for value and performance along with a goalie that can't stop a beach ball. The goalie could be the only thing holding the team back. Your equation is useless.

There's always a cyclical curve of when you have some bargains and when you don't based on the age of the team, what contract each player is in, how many UFAs, etc. It's not black and white. The team finances have been managed well by Burke, someone needs to buy you a calculator.

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09-29-2011, 03:14 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Komisarek is the only bad contract on the roster.
Komi has far more value to this team then Lupul - who's making 4.25
Unfortunately were just not as deep upfront as we are on D and Lupul's complete lack of production goes unnoticed.

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09-29-2011, 03:17 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
don't be surprised if he shows that he is more than just a bad contract to some, so far im getting a very positive vibe from this pre-season.
I was lambasted for saying this last season but i think Komi can be fine. If we are still serious about picking up some elite level talent we have a better chance of doing it by packaging some of our better/young prospects, especially since our defense is already busy.

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09-29-2011, 03:17 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by dirk41 View Post
How dare he.
He never ever said a positive thing about the Leafs, not even pre-lockout. Sorry if I have a different opinion than you on McCowan, sue me. It's ok to criticize, but how about mix it up and say something positive sometimes? Even Healy mixes it up.

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09-29-2011, 03:19 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by leafsin2011 View Post
You're comparing their spending at the start of the year to their finish at the end. That's apples and oranges, the players were radically different at the end. I also don't recall they were ever 3rd in spending, maybe only in your world.

There's always a cyclical curve of when you have some bargains and when you don't based on the age of the team, what contract each player is in, how many UFAs, etc. It's not black and white. The team finances have been managed well by Burke, someone needs to buy you a calculator.
http://web.archive.org/web/201009221...rts.php?Team=4

In the span of one year, we have dropped from 3rd highest to 5th highest in spending.

It's very black and white, actually. The Leafs are getting pounded by teams who spend significantly less.

Keep spinning and you might start getting dizzy.

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09-29-2011, 03:20 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Komi has far more value to this team then Lupul - who's making 4.25
Unfortunately were just not as deep upfront as we are on D and Lupul's complete lack of production goes unnoticed.
You mean during pre-season? He was on fire to end the season, and showed great chemistry with Kessel. Lets see what happens when games matter before labeling him like that.

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09-29-2011, 03:24 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Tootoo Train View Post
You mean during pre-season? He was on fire to end the season, and showed great chemistry with Kessel. Lets see what happens when games matter before labeling him like that.
Fair enough ... his job is to create time space for Kessel/Connolly right ...
He's not effective cycling the puck. He doesn't have a nose for the net.
To be completely honest I'm not entirely sure what it is he does out there?
He has some speed - and throws his weight around alright I guess? But does that justify Top line minutes? He should be undoubtedly playing 3rd line. Preferably on another team. But again there's nobody to replace him.

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09-29-2011, 03:33 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
http://web.archive.org/web/201009221...rts.php?Team=4

In the span of one year, we have dropped from 3rd highest to 5th highest in spending.

It's very black and white, actually. The Leafs are getting pounded by teams who spend significantly less.

Keep spinning and you might start getting dizzy.
Determiming players are not pulling their weight this year is slightly premature. Complain all you'd like about last year. But this season hasn't started to count yet.

There are no more inherited contracts here. Burke has signed them all, so he has to take responsibility for that. He should make the playoffs with the 5th highest paid team. There are no more Finger's, or Blake's or JSG to hold the team captive.

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09-29-2011, 03:34 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
He never ever said a positive thing about the Leafs, not even pre-lockout. Sorry if I have a different opinion than you on McCowan, sue me. It's ok to criticize, but how about mix it up and say something positive sometimes? Even Healy mixes it up.
McCown is a cynic, he takes the easy critical, second guessing route 99% of the time. I find him, given he is a professional broadcaster, very ill-informed on a lot of topics. All his co-hosts, wing-men are nothing but lap dogs for him. Most of his material comes from just reading the morning sports.

Anyway I do respect that others have a better opinion of him but thats the way I see it.

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09-29-2011, 03:34 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Stu View Post
I was lambasted for saying this last season but i think Komi can be fine. If we are still serious about picking up some elite level talent we have a better chance of doing it by packaging some of our better/young prospects, especially since our defense is already busy.
Well let's see what plays out, we certainly have enough depth in the blue line but we need to garner some elite skill players in the top line aside from just kessel.

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09-29-2011, 03:35 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
McCown is a cynic, he takes the easy critical, second guessing route 99% of the time. I find him, given he is a professional broadcaster, very ill-informed on a lot of topics. All his co-hosts, wing-men are nothing but lap dogs for him. Most of his material comes from just reading the morning sports.

Anyway I do respect that others have a better opinion of him but thats the way I see it.
very well said and agreed hundred percent, something about him just bugs me and really just annoys me.

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09-29-2011, 03:36 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Fair enough ... his job is to create time space for Kessel/Connolly right ...
He's not effective cycling the puck. He doesn't have a nose for the net.
To be completely honest I'm not entirely sure what it is he does out there?
He has some speed - and throws his weight around alright I guess? But does that justify Top line minutes? He should be undoubtedly playing 3rd line. Preferably on another team. But again there's nobody to replace him.
Lupul isn't being flashy or getting his name called out but he has quietly and steady done his job on the top line and that is make space for kessel, if you watch the game closesly you will always see that. He's certainly a stop gap atm, but he is getting his job done and can bring in some good offense when we need some from him.

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09-29-2011, 03:37 PM
  #167
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Overpaying Lupul for 2 years is balanced by an ELC for Gardiner and overpaying Phaneuf is balanced by Aulie. Surely the overpaidness of those players factored in to the prospects acquired.

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09-29-2011, 03:45 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Lupul isn't being flashy or getting his name called out but he has quietly and steady done his job on the top line and that is make space for kessel, if you watch the game closesly you will always see that. He's certainly a stop gap atm, but he is getting his job done and can bring in some good offense when we need some from him.

It feels like 90% of all Kessel goals are individual efforts. He carries the puck into the zone - and snaps a shot from the perimeter. Lupul might try and crash the crease - but rarely is he effective doing it. Furthermore how often do you see Lupul collecting garbage goals off Kessel rebounds in front of the net? I honestly think everyone just gives him a free ride because he's our only option. And thats not acceptable for a guy making 4.25/year.

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09-29-2011, 03:52 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
It feels like 90% of all Kessel goals are individual efforts. He carries the puck into the zone - and snaps a shot from the perimeter. Lupul might try and crash the crease - but rarely is he effective doing it. Furthermore how often do you see Lupul collecting garbage goals off Kessel rebounds in front of the net? I honestly think everyone just gives him a free ride because he's our only option. And thats not acceptable for a guy making 4.25/year.
It's more about going hard to the net and dragging defenders back so Kessel has more space between the blueline and the hashmarks. Also does a pretty good job along the boards. You can't judge him by how much he makes though, that never does any good. He brought us Gardiner, and fills an area of weakness (lw).

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09-29-2011, 03:53 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by PresidentCamacho View Post
http://web.archive.org/web/201009221...rts.php?Team=4

In the span of one year, we have dropped from 3rd highest to 5th highest in spending.

It's very black and white, actually. The Leafs are getting pounded by teams who spend significantly less.

Keep spinning and you might start getting dizzy.
Convenient you included a cap figure where Jeff Finger and his 3.5 million is included, he was not on the roster and that would plummet our salary ranking. We were not 3rd (again, black and white only in your world).

Again, Giguere was not a 6M goalie. So everyone else is overpaid because our goalie couldn't stop pucks.

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09-29-2011, 03:54 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
It feels like 90% of all Kessel goals are individual efforts. He carries the puck into the zone - and snaps a shot from the perimeter. Lupul might try and crash the crease - but rarely is he effective doing it. Furthermore how often do you see Lupul collecting garbage goals off Kessel rebounds in front of the net? I honestly think everyone just gives him a free ride because he's our only option. And thats not acceptable for a guy making 4.25/year.
Not really, look back at some of the games, and you will understand why, I was tbh astonished that this guy was clearing up space as he was known exactly not for that and was weak, but he clearly was able to stand on his own feet and fight if needed. I was conviced when the lupul-kessel duo started creating magic that he was a top line winger but i got a reality check when I checked out old games.

He isn't the clear cut perfect choice, that everyone knows but he is certainly at least working for us and we should be just thankful for that, i mean god damn then we would be stuck with crabbs in our team if he wasn't present. There was a reason kessel really started excelling when Lupul came and he showed it again a night back, money is what we can use at will, if that much (albeit over paid) is working for our top line player then I don't mind, especially when we also get a solid young defensive stud in gardiner with that overpaid winger.

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09-29-2011, 03:56 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Not really, look back at some of the games, and you will understand why, I was tbh astonished that this guy was clearing up space as he was known exactly not for that and was weak, but he clearly was able to stand on his own feet and fight if needed. I was conviced when the lupul-kessel duo started creating magic that he was a top line winger but i got a reality check when I checked out old games.

He isn't the clear cut perfect choice, that everyone knows but he is certainly at least working for us and we should be just thankful for that, i mean god damn then we would be stuck with crabbs in our team if he wasn't present. There was a reason kessel really started excelling when Lupul came and he showed it again a night back, money is what we can use at will, if that much (albeit over paid) is working for our top line player then I don't mind, especially when we also get a solid young defensive stud in gardiner with that overpaid winger.

Shoulda hung on to Antropov?

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09-29-2011, 04:00 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by leafsin2011 View Post
Convenient you included a cap figure where Jeff Finger and his 3.5 million is included, he was not on the roster and that would plummet our salary ranking. We were not 3rd (again, black and white only in your world).

Again, Giguere was not a 6M goalie. So everyone else is overpaid because our goalie couldn't stop pucks.
2009/2010 - 11th in spending - 29th place finish.

It's very black and white.

We are in for the same story this year.

2011/2012 - 5th in spending - No playoffs.

Are you gonna blame it on Komisarek?

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09-29-2011, 04:02 PM
  #174
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Shoulda hung on to Antropov?
boat set sail a long time ago and we have no more to think about that.

Not to mention he wasn't exactly the antropov player we needed after the injuries.

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09-29-2011, 04:05 PM
  #175
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boat set sail a long time ago and we have no more to think about that.

Not to mention he wasn't exactly the antropov player we needed after the injuries.

He sure looked good last night ... finally starting to use that big body.

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