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Flyers talking to Predators to move salary

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Old
09-30-2011, 05:07 AM
  #251
dookie88
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Eh, he hasn't been any more impressive than Bartulis/Lilja/Gustafson.
The guy is 23 years old, a high draft pick, big and can skate.
Reminds you of someone?

I guess it's already to late (haven't checked if he passed) but as another user said, he's probably better than anyone we have on the Phantoms if Gus is making the big club.
I like his upside, if he cleans up his game he's at the very least a decent #5 dman and there's some upside to it.

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09-30-2011, 05:14 AM
  #252
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Holmgren needs to pull his head out of his ass and waive Shelley.

After his 1.1M dollars are buried in ADK our cap situation looks relatively good:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.250m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.845m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $1,402,500

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,302,539; BONUSES: $3,815,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $997,461

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09-30-2011, 05:41 AM
  #253
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I think that should be a lock for the opening line-up.

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09-30-2011, 07:26 AM
  #254
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Homer will send Shelley down as a last hope thing. He obviously loves the guy considering the amount and length of term he gave him.

2 more freakin' years of Shelley is too much.

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09-30-2011, 09:03 AM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
The guy is 23 years old, a high draft pick, big and can skate.
Reminds you of someone?

I guess it's already to late (haven't checked if he passed) but as another user said, he's probably better than anyone we have on the Phantoms if Gus is making the big club.
I like his upside, if he cleans up his game he's at the very least a decent #5 dman and there's some upside to it.
He still hasn't impressed. He's played in the A for what, three years and a handfull of NHL games? Sure he's young, but he hasn't looked that great. He's looked ok, but so has Gus and Bart. I've seen him play in person a handful of times and on TV. He's been traded once and waived by the Islanders. We already have a handful of 5/6/7 Dmen. No need to waste a contract on this dude.

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09-30-2011, 09:41 AM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
Holmgren needs to pull his head out of his ass and waive Shelley.

After his 1.1M dollars are buried in ADK our cap situation looks relatively good:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.250m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.845m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)
Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $1,402,500

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,302,539; BONUSES: $3,815,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $997,461
Betts is horrendous at this point...he needs to go. Put Talbot at center with Rinaldo and Harry Z on the wings. That's a line that can actually do something and change some momentum. Nodl-Betts-Talbot is a snoozefest of a 4th line that will have zero impact on games.

this is what I would do...

Jagr-G-Read
Hartnell-Briere-JVR/Simmonds
Vorecek-Schenn/Coutourier-Simmonds/JVR
Rinaldo-Talbot-Harry Z

Jagr-G-Read - G/Jagr are are so good, you don't need a top player like JVR there. Read has great speed to break down the defense and create even more gaps and space that these two hockey genius's would instantly exploit. It would be terrific for Jagr's game so he won't have to tote the puck in and can have those guys set it up and he can then use his unreal space reading ability and just go to the open space. I think they'd work really well together and surprised they haven't tried it yet.

Hartnell-Briere-JVR/Simmonds -two big guys for Briere. I might prefer to try Simmonds here.

Vorecek-Schenn/Courtierier-Simmonds/JVR - could move JVR here too and make it a real threat and TOUGH matchup if JVR is skating vs. a 3rd defense pairing. I've liked what I've seen from Courtourier. Very good on the cycle, protects the puck really well. He's still crazy young and needs to develop but he's looked good. I wouldn't worry about JVR on the "3rd line" as I'd look to put him on the PK as well as PP to get his numbers around 20 mins/night.

Rinaldo-Talbot-Harry Z -gritty line that no one will like and be very quick.

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09-30-2011, 09:59 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banger View Post
Betts is horrendous at this point...he needs to go. Put Talbot at center with Rinaldo and Harry Z on the wings. That's a line that can actually do something and change some momentum. Nodl-Betts-Talbot is a snoozefest of a 4th line that will have zero impact on games.

this is what I would do...

Jagr-G-Read
Hartnell-Briere-JVR/Simmonds
Vorecek-Schenn/Coutourier-Simmonds/JVR
Rinaldo-Talbot-Harry Z

Jagr-G-Read - G/Jagr are are so good, you don't need a top player like JVR there. Read has great speed to break down the defense and create even more gaps and space that these two hockey genius's would instantly exploit. It would be terrific for Jagr's game so he won't have to tote the puck in and can have those guys set it up and he can then use his unreal space reading ability and just go to the open space. I think they'd work really well together and surprised they haven't tried it yet.

Hartnell-Briere-JVR/Simmonds -two big guys for Briere. I might prefer to try Simmonds here.

Vorecek-Schenn/Courtierier-Simmonds/JVR - could move JVR here too and make it a real threat and TOUGH matchup if JVR is skating vs. a 3rd defense pairing. I've liked what I've seen from Courtourier. Very good on the cycle, protects the puck really well. He's still crazy young and needs to develop but he's looked good. I wouldn't worry about JVR on the "3rd line" as I'd look to put him on the PK as well as PP to get his numbers around 20 mins/night.

Rinaldo-Talbot-Harry Z -gritty line that no one will like and be very quick.
That's five rookies in the starting lineup, six if Gus makes it. Read on the top line is a bit of a stretch. I agree that Jagr and G don't "need" another good player on their line, but if you do put someone out there it makes that line all the better. Your second line is fine, I have no problem with that. Third line too seems ok. Fourth line though, I don't see it. I think it will shake out more like this:

JvR-G-Jagr
Hartnell-Briere-Voracek
Simmonds-Schenn-Read (or Couturier if he makes it, could be swapped with Schenn at center)
Talbot-Betts-Nodl (or Read if Couturier makes it)

Those third and fourth lines could be very difficult to play against. Simmonds and Talbot are both sandpaper type players, and Read seems like he could be as well. Betts is still a solid defensive player, same with Nodl. Guess we'll find out pretty soon how this shakes out. There is also this rumor of a trade coming so who knows, really.

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Old
09-30-2011, 10:00 AM
  #258
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People are severely underestimating Betts. He might not be 100%, but he plays his role and does a damn good job of doing it.

This team has taken a ton of penalties in the past, and there's no reason to think that is going to change. We've lost Richards, Carter, Lappy, and Gagne in the last two years alone, and we've replaced them with Talbot, essentially. Good teams have people in their bottom 6 who are capable of killing penalties well. Getting rid of Betts is a step back.

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Old
09-30-2011, 10:35 AM
  #259
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I know its preseason but I thought Betts played well so far...

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09-30-2011, 11:14 AM
  #260
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Betts doesn't score, therefore he isn't good. Seems to be alot of peoples opinion on the guy. He has a role and he performs that role rather well. You don't need a fourth line that scores.

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09-30-2011, 02:22 PM
  #261
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Ya add me to the Waive Shelly bandwagon, although if we can geta decent player in return for Hartnell (assuming he'd waive) i'd listen.

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09-30-2011, 02:40 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Betts doesn't score, therefore he isn't good. Seems to be alot of peoples opinion on the guy. He has a role and he performs that role rather well. You don't need a fourth line that scores.
completely incorrect with respect to my opinion. Betts doesn't hit, he's terrible offensively (can't score, can't cycle to sustain pressure), his faceoff % is 50% so that doesn't help, he skates in syrup. He's done.

The only thing he brings right now is PK and he's not even terrfic at that. Their PK is dead in the middle so it's not as if they are at the top of the pack and he's been an incredible PKer and faceoff guy. You don't need a 4th liner that scores but one that can change momentum or have a possible impact on a game would be nice. I just don't see him adding any value at this point or at least what some others can't do cheaper with more potential upside in other areas. They need to turn the page with him.

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09-30-2011, 02:48 PM
  #263
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You aren't going to find anyone who has Betts' skill for less money.

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09-30-2011, 02:49 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You aren't going to find anyone who has Betts' skill for less money.
what are his skills at this point?

I would like a 4th line that can actually play hockey and get in the other teams zone and throw some hits, get some pressure on the opposition. They've turned the page on this team and rebooted and I think he and Shelley need to go to make a more upbeat, impactful 4th line. They aren't going to have the top 3 line dominance like they did last year so I think the 4th line can and should play more mins this year.


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09-30-2011, 02:53 PM
  #265
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what are his skills at this point?
PK, and defense. He's a good 4th liner, and his cap hit is in the 700k area. He doesn't need to play center, we can have Talbot center the 4th line and move Betts to wing.

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09-30-2011, 02:59 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
PK, and defense. He's a good 4th liner, and his cap hit is in the 700k area. He doesn't need to play center, we can have Talbot center the 4th line and move Betts to wing.
how good is he defensively though? he's not a shut down guy because he can't skate. He can play positionally well on the PK but that's about it. Hell he was a -3 last year. I haven't been a Betts hater but I think a lot of people are seeing thinking that we have the Betts of 2 years ago with Lappy. He's not that guy.

Ya, his cap hit is nice but I'd rather have Harry Z-Talbot-Rinaldo for a price less than Shelley-Betts-Nodl and they'd be a hell of a lot more fun and impactful. They'd be hitting bodies up and down the ice, very fast and 3 good agitators that no one would want to play against.

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09-30-2011, 03:02 PM
  #267
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There's more to hockey than hitting. Rinaldo was getting absolutely dominated in physical puck battles around the net last night too, I'd rather not see him on the roster yet.

Betts is fine on defense. As you've mentioned, he's good at positioning.

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09-30-2011, 03:04 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
PK, and defense. He's a good 4th liner, and his cap hit is in the 700k area. He doesn't need to play center, we can have Talbot center the 4th line and move Betts to wing.
Betts and Shelley need to go both are old and slow.

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09-30-2011, 03:05 PM
  #269
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I'm in total agreement that you need to get back a somewhat gritty player or we need to just keep Hartnell.

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09-30-2011, 03:06 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
There's more to hockey than hitting. Rinaldo was getting absolutely dominated in physical puck battles around the net last night too, I'd rather not see him on the roster yet.

Betts is fine on defense. As you've mentioned, he's good at positioning.
Betts and shelley both will be waived watch and see.............

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09-30-2011, 03:06 PM
  #271
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Oh yea please please please Homer waive Shelly. There's just no room.

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09-30-2011, 03:08 PM
  #272
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Now that we have Talbot I don't think we need Betts as bad as we did. We still have some good PK's on this team.

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09-30-2011, 03:09 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
There's more to hockey than hitting. Rinaldo was getting absolutely dominated in physical puck battles around the net last night too, I'd rather not see him on the roster yet.

Betts is fine on defense. As you've mentioned, he's good at positioning.
Believe me I know there's more to hockey than hitting but there's also something to be said for momentum. Rinaldo also had a fight that sparked the team, had a number of nice hits, he drew a penalty, Z drew a penalty. Against the Rags he knocked out Sauer with a solid hit in the boards. When was the last time Betts-Shelley-Nodl drew a penalty, had an impactful hit?

I'm talking about a line that can get in on the defense, forecheck, throw the body, get under the oppositions skin and spark the team a bit. I'd rather move away from the "well they aren't going to hurt you too bad" 4th line model.

We'll see how it plays out but they are changing the face and complexion of the team and I don't think they should stop at the top 3 lines. I think Rinaldo has a very good shot at making it (his $500k salary doesn't hurt). As mentioned above Talbot more than replaces Betts and his PK ability. Pair Talbot with Read on the PK and bye bye Betts.

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09-30-2011, 03:14 PM
  #274
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I see Rinaldo becoming a liability as the season goes on. When it comes to going fast and running into things, he's fine. From what I've seen he can not win a physical positioning battle, and I've seen him just get pushed out of the way a few times like it's nothing. I think he needs another year to get stronger, or other teams could just take advantage of him. I'd take Z over him.

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09-30-2011, 03:21 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I see Rinaldo becoming a liability as the season goes on. When it comes to going fast and running into things, he's fine. From what I've seen he can not win a physical positioning battle, and I've seen him just get pushed out of the way a few times like it's nothing. I think he needs another year to get stronger, or other teams could just take advantage of him. I'd take Z over him.
and Z is certainly in the mix. Rinaldo is waiver exempt whereas Nodl is not so you can keep Nodl as forward 13 and if Zac does falter or is a defensive liability you can send him down and pop Nodl in that spot.

I really haven't noticed him being pushed around or be a defensive liability though. I know there a several guys on here that have an axe to grind with him but I didn't have any opinion whatsoever on the kid. I've watched objectively (IMO) and I've really liked what I've seen. Ya, he may slow down or not be able to keep up with the pace all year but let him fail first and make you make that decision. From what I've seen and heard from the organization everyone seems to be very impressed with how he's changed his game, changed his body and has grown as a player in a short time.

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