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Old
09-29-2011, 04:26 PM
  #101
Strome18
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Originally Posted by MTK View Post
That was a really dumb and overpayment move by Colorado. There is though value for goalies but when Rolie was traded how many teams needed a goalie?? Not many.

I am fine with the trade then and today same goes for Wiz trade. Wiz signed for about the same as Tavares, he is not a great defense man

People getting upset over trades from last year that didn't hurt our team or prospect pool are just petty. For God sakes, Mike Milbury was our GM and look at his trades.

Garth has done fine in all his trades for the most part in my opinion. People here think everyone is worth a 1st round pick.

I hope Garth follows up on the future considerations from Chicago or else
We all know a Toews is worth at least 2 - 1st rounders.

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09-29-2011, 05:48 PM
  #102
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I've been watching dehaan for a very long time and I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on the isles d depth chart. I truly hope they do not give him a spot on the opening roster. He is not ready. Give him a half a year in the bridge at the very least. People look at hamonic and say look he did it. Why not dehaan. They are two different style players and completly built differently

Edit: Im sorry this does bother me a lil bit. How can you say that this kid is the 4th best defenseman on this team, when he has not even played or proved anything in the AHL let alone even in the NHL? On top of that he had a crappy preseason IMO. This truly boggles me and am very curious about the thought process behind that.
We can agree to disagree.

I don't believe he'll be given the job, I think he'll earn the job. (Granted, it's not like the competition is fierce with top NHL defenders!)

I don't compare deHaan to Hamonic. I saw him in Oshawa and he had real poise for that level. I saw him in the WJC and he looked like a better player. With every year, he's improved. The timid 6'1" 150 lbs 18 year old at the draft is gone. I'd say deHaan is probably 185-190lbs now. I've seen him in street clothes and he's much more physically mature than he was. He's gotten stronger, he plays way more physical than he used to (even more than he should, IMO) and he looks like a different player.

I believe you when you say that you think "he's not ready" - but I think "he's ready" now. Where we disagree.

If you forget the birth certificate and watch the game it's obvious that deHaan can play. I'd say Donovan is probably right behind deHaan for that matter. I don't think 30 AHL games will change much about deHaan's size, strength. What makes him an NHL player, the same reason why he was drafted, is his smarts, skating and decision-making. He's already at the NHL level based on what I see. Of course he'll make mistakes but by game 20-30 I believe he'll be far better than Eaton & Jurcina & Mottau & Staios. I think he's already better than those guys.

As I said before, ideally, I'd love for Snow to have acquired TWO defensemen. Signing Ehrhoff and re-signing Martinek would have meant a much stronger NYI team and deHaan would then be best suited to the AHL. But there's nobody better than deHaan (outside Streit, MacDonald and Hamonic) - so it's kind of obvious to me.

I remember watching Kaberle in his first camp in Toronto as a 20 year old. He looked like a kid, looked frail, couldn't speak the language at all - but it was obvious he could play. I see the same thing in deHaan.


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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
As a fan I'm not happy about having seen Martinek and Hillen walk just so that we bring in Staios as a tryout player. Even if he signs, I'd rather have each of the other two.

I believe Snow was trying other things that haven't panned out yet (it takes two to tango) and of course there's always that preseason waiver wire, which I think he'll be making use of.

Then again, I wouldn't put it past this team to have run prospects camp looking to see if it felt that a Katic, de Haan or even Donovan was pretty much ready for some role on the Island. I dislike seeing a team plan that way, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.
If that was "the plan" then it's a sorry plan for an NHL GM. I don't think it was the plan, I believe Snow took a hard run at Ehrhoff and missed - but I applaud the effort. But just because you ask Scarlett Johansson out and she says no, doesn't mean you settle for Star Jones on a "tryout"

In terms of the waiver wire, that might be the case. I just don't expect a team to improve when they're choosing from the 7th or 8th best defenseman on another team when you have giant holes in your top 2.

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Originally Posted by MTK View Post
Garth has done fine in all his trades for the most part in my opinion. People here think everyone is worth a 1st round pick.

I hope Garth follows up on the future considerations from Chicago or else
Some of us aren't upset about the trades. I don't expect Snow (or any GM) to win every trade - what I do expect is to address team needs.


Last edited by redbull: 09-29-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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Old
09-29-2011, 06:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
We can agree to disagree.

I don't believe he'll be given the job, I think he'll earn the job. (Granted, it's not like the competition is fierce with top NHL defenders!)

I don't compare deHaan to Hamonic. I saw him in Oshawa and he had real poise for that level. I saw him in the WJC and he looked like a better player. With every year, he's improved. The timid 6'1" 150 lbs 18 year old at the draft is gone. I'd say deHaan is probably 185-190lbs now. I've seen him in street clothes and he's much more physically mature than he was. He's gotten stronger, he plays way more physical than he used to (even more than he should, IMO) and he looks like a different player.

I believe you when you say that you think "he's not ready" - but I think "he's ready" now. Where we disagree.

If you forget the birth certificate and watch the game it's obvious that deHaan can play. I'd say Donovan is probably right behind deHaan for that matter. I don't think 30 AHL games will change much about deHaan's size, strength. What makes him an NHL player, the same reason why he was drafted, is his smarts, skating and decision-making. He's already at the NHL level based on what I see. Of course he'll make mistakes but by game 20-30 I believe he'll be far better than Eaton & Jurcina & Mottau & Staios. I think he's already better than those guys.

As I said before, ideally, I'd love for Snow to have acquired TWO defensemen. Signing Ehrhoff and re-signing Martinek would have meant a much stronger NYI team and deHaan would then be best suited to the AHL. But there's nobody better than deHaan (outside Streit, MacDonald and Hamonic) - so it's kind of obvious to me.
yeah it might not do much, i mean if it was up to me i would have him spend a year in the ahl, but half the season down there may allow him to transition to a faster game and get used to playing against men. Which would get him better prepared for the NHL instead of trying to learn and adjust on the fly and possibly hurting the team. Given the isles record with rushing players, i am sure you are right and we will see him on the opening night roster. I wish snow did go out and get the D this team truly needs. I fear rushing Dehaan will stunt his potential and could possibly ruin his confidence. Was hoping the team would take the slow and steady approach with this kid.

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Old
09-29-2011, 07:36 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by redbull;



Some of us aren't upset about the trades. I don't expect Snow (or any GM) to win every trade - what I do expect is to address team needs.
my post was addressing past trade and being upset for wishart and wiz trade.

I agree he should of gotten 1-2 defenceman and addressed the team needs. He should of done that through trades but as I said he hasn't really mismanaged the assets he has

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09-29-2011, 08:31 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by MTK View Post
my post was addressing past trade and being upset for wishart and wiz trade.

I agree he should of gotten 1-2 defenceman and addressed the team needs. He should of done that through trades but as I said he hasn't really mismanaged the assets he has
I don't have any issues with his asset management nor his trades. I know Milbury gets knocked around (deservedly so) for his awful trades but the other extreme isn't necessarily the way to go either.

Generally, I'm in favor of building from within, through the draft, but I'd like to see team needs addressed in some way. Ignoring large gaps for three straight off-seasons doesn't exactly instill confidence in your team, your fan base, and shouldn't impress your owner (if he cares about winning, the on-ice product)

But maybe the motivation from the top isn't the same as it is for fans.

Either way, Snow's done a very good job of bringing in the right type of players, of signing the core players to long-term deals, there's some depth in the organization for a change - so let's see how the team does and enjoy the season.

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09-29-2011, 08:59 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Well, it's not like any of us thinks this team goes into every offseason asking itself "What do we need and who do we need to get to win the Stanley Cup next season?"

I know the idealists feel every GM should go into the offseason asking himself just that, but we darn well know that reality is a much, much different thing.
Stanley Cup? That's a little far reaching, let's aim for the playoffs. I think most of us have been looking for (now running on 2-3 years) a veteran top-6'er to play with JT and a veteran top-4 Dman to augment the back end. Snow and co. have failed at both. Instead we've got a castoff from NYR and a few filler D men.

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09-29-2011, 10:06 PM
  #107
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how is this offseason a failure??? wishart going to minors doesn't prove anything...he's 23 if he pans out great if he doesn't i don't view snow as an idiot..everyone is always screaming why cant we get a prospect back in a deal...we finally do and now its he is panning out oh no...
Do you realize this team finished 5th from last in the 4th year of a rebuild. This offseason sucked balls. Yes the team should be better but after the end of the year we will be outside looking in. I wish the rest of you Isles fans would realize it doesnt have to take 10 years

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09-30-2011, 12:00 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
First.

i've been screaming for two NHL dmen and two NHL forwards for the past two off-seasons. I've been disappointed every offseason including this past one. I'd prefer Martinek being kept over what we have.

I'd prefer to have 7 better choices than deHaan at this stage....but alas, there aren't.

I don't think there are many defensemen that can jump from junior to the NHL right away. Even if they "could" - why "should" they?! I believe all players should prove their ability in the AHL before the NHL with very few exceptions.

with all that said, we are where we are and guest what...deHaan is better than most defensemen on the Islanders as of today. The fact that Wishart and Reese have been waived, two older, more experienced defensemen that have "seasoning" - that's not a great sign for the state of the dmen core.

The dmen in camp include Ness (played well, will clearly be in the AHL though), Donovan (really promising but destined for the AHL) and the best of the bunch in Calvin deHaan.

Streit, MacDonald, Hamonic, deHaan, Eaton, Jurcina, Staios, Mottau - these are the top eight, from best to worst in terms of their game right now.

Unless something drastic happens between now and October, I think deHaan makes this team.
I've been watching dehaan for a very long time and I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on the isles d depth chart. I truly hope they do not give him a spot on the opening roster. He is not ready. Give him a half a year in the bridge at the very least. People look at hamonic and say look he did it. Why not dehaan. They are two different style players and completly built differently

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09-30-2011, 12:44 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by KH1 View Post
That's absolutely insane.

The Isles took a team that finished a full 20 points out of a playoff spot, and added a decent 4th line center, a washed up 38 year old winger, and a 37 year old defenseman who couldn't crack any other lineup in hockey. We actually managed to lose depth from last season.

I agree that getting a top 4 defenseman is hard. It's supposed to be hard! That's why Garth Snow is getting paid a ******** of money to be the GM--it's his freaking job to upgrade the team! Instead, we're going into the season with a mediocre, injury prone defense and absolutely no depth behind it.

That's "highly successful?" Because we got future considerations for Gervais, and got another kid with a lottery pick that we earned by sucking so badly?

Meanwhile, all of our rivals for the last playoff spot have been making significant, tangible upgrades. And the Isles are just sitting on their hands and hoping that this team magically improves by itself (and, apparently, that not a single defenseman gets hurt at any point during the season.)

If this was wildly successful, I'd love to hear your definition of failure.
Exactly.

We were a bottom 5 team last year, and we did nothing to improve the team.

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09-30-2011, 06:35 AM
  #110
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
If that was "the plan" then it's a sorry plan for an NHL GM. I don't think it was the plan, I believe Snow took a hard run at Ehrhoff and missed - but I applaud the effort. But just because you ask Scarlett Johansson out and she says no, doesn't mean you settle for Star Jones on a "tryout"

In terms of the waiver wire, that might be the case. I just don't expect a team to improve when they're choosing from the 7th or 8th best defenseman on another team when you have giant holes in your top 2.
Well, of course as stated in many previous posts, I too believe that the attempt to grab Erhoff was symbolic and applaudible. He's not Pronger or Keith, but he's the type of Dman who'd have gone a longgggg way in getting us into a playoff position.

I too believe that Snow wants THAT caliber of Dman, or he's not gonna invest much in anything less. Staios is far less, but we've hardly invested anything thus far.

Waiver wire and under-the-radar signings:
What we have to remember is that Snow has had moderate to great success on the waiver wire in recent years. In addition, you almost always see good, useful players on that preseason waiver wire who are on the outside looking in because of financial reasons or the numbers game. Throw in the fact that Moulson and Parenteau, if not also guys like Jurcina, have been good under-the-radar depth signings, I believe the precedence is there to believe that Morrow and Snow will be able to add a useful player via the waiver wire next week.

Last year they signed Mottau with lightning speed after Streit was injured. Not that Mottau is a worldbeater, but it does show that the team wanted to have a certain level of depth right from the get-go. That depth is not there, as KH1 mentioned above.

But precedence gives us reason to believe it could very well be by the time the season starts.

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09-30-2011, 06:35 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Top Corner View Post
Do you realize this team finished 5th from last in the 4th year of a rebuild. This offseason sucked balls. Yes the team should be better but after the end of the year we will be outside looking in. I wish the rest of you Isles fans would realize it doesnt have to take 10 years
no it doesn't have to take 10 years..but the pens hawks and kings didn't do it in 3...who did you want to bring in the offseason?? you want the wiz at 5.5 per?? we locked up grabner..ko and jt. signed reasoner and traded for rolston both will add leadership...we must be looking at different teams...i'm not saying this was a great offseason..but it didn't suck "balls"

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09-30-2011, 07:01 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BelovedIsles View Post
Stanley Cup? That's a little far reaching, let's aim for the playoffs. I think most of us have been looking for (now running on 2-3 years) a veteran top-6'er to play with JT and a veteran top-4 Dman to augment the back end. Snow and co. have failed at both. Instead we've got a castoff from NYR and a few filler D men.
Well, when it comes to that forward, I can only say I'd rather have the Moulsons and Parenteaus of the world than the Frolovs and Ponikarovskys of the world, both of whom were clamored for by a number of fans here.

Even proven and effective wingers like Eric Cole all have question marks. I mean staying with this example, and I love what Cole is capable of, the guy is a walking hospital bill and has only really had any major NHL success while playing with Staal or in general, in Carolina. He is however a guy many of our fans felt would have been a logical signing.

However, with that info in mind, should we have outbid Montreal for him, who are now giving him 4 million per???

Should we have outbid Buffalo for Ville Leino who's getting what, between 3.5 and 5 million per???

Fact is, since Tavares has even been here, there's nary been a UFA winger worth getting who isn't being overpaid or was even available via trade. Certainly none who have put up the 50 points per we've been getting from the cost-efficient, under-the-radar Moulson and Parenteau.

And now for the obvious.... with these things in mind, are not particularly the Parenteaus of the world just holdovers until primarily Niederreiter and Strome, but also maybe Petrov, Kabanov and Lee are on the Island???

Like most, I think it's time to make the playoffs. No doubt, I want that this season. But the future topflight wingers are going to be homegrown. They're coming from the inside, not as big time signings from the outside. There will be no Hossa or Kovalchuk here until this team is seen as only that far away from a Stanley Cup.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 09-30-2011 at 07:08 AM.
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09-30-2011, 07:03 AM
  #113
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Exactly.

We were a bottom 5 team last year, and we did nothing to improve the team.
Well, we've realistically added Streit, Okposo, Nabokov, Rolston and Reasoner.

But the more pressing question: Do you and others believe improvement can ONLY come from the outside?

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09-30-2011, 07:11 AM
  #114
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tonights lineup:

Blake Comeau-Marty Reasoner-Nino Niederreiter

Jay Pandolfo-Josh Bailey-PA Parenteau

Matt Martin-Ryan Strome-Tim Wallace

Trevor Gillies-Trevor Frischmon-Micheal Haley

Defensemen

Mark Streit-Steve Staios

Aaron Ness-Mark Eaton

Matt Donovan-Mike Mottau

Goaltenders

Rick DiPietro, Kevin Poulin

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Old
09-30-2011, 08:35 AM
  #115
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Well, we've realistically added Streit, Okposo, Nabokov, Rolston and Reasoner.

But the more pressing question: Do you and others believe improvement can ONLY come from the outside?
I don't believe that improvement can only come from the outside, but I also don't believe that it can come completely from within.

The Isles added Mark Streit, a 4th line center, a washed up 3rd line winger, and a backup goalie (because we all know that The Rick will be starting again.) Plus we lost all of our defensive depth, which was very poor to begin with.

I just don't see that adding up to a 20 point increase in the standings.

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09-30-2011, 08:56 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KH1 View Post
I don't believe that improvement can only come from the outside, but I also don't believe that it can come completely from within.

The Isles added Mark Streit, a 4th line center, a washed up 3rd line winger, and a backup goalie (because we all know that The Rick will be starting again.) Plus we lost all of our defensive depth, which was very poor to begin with.

I just don't see that adding up to a 20 point increase in the standings.
Then again, producing the same offense while cutting the goals against by 25 should add up to that 20 point increase.

But I'm with you that this goal will need to be achieved more by spectacular goaltending and solid puck-possession than by the defensive corps as is.

With the recent injury histories of Streit, Eaton, Mottau, MacDonald and Jurcina, this team needs to not only add an addition like Staios, but also get a very serviceable Dman from the waiver wire (he can be an under-the-radar type - he just has to have game) or swing another deal like the 3rd for Wisniewski move last summer.

Other than that, we can only hope an pray that a de Haan and/or Donovan is ready to be everything that Hamonic and MacDonald have been in recent years.

We know Wishart and Reece won't be...

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09-30-2011, 11:02 AM
  #117
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Anyone else notice that Colliton was not in camp?

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09-30-2011, 11:08 AM
  #118
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Anyone else notice that Colliton was not in camp?
he has a groin pull

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09-30-2011, 11:34 AM
  #119
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Anyone else notice that Colliton was not in camp?
why would Snow mess with his most valuable trade chip...better he rests

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09-30-2011, 11:48 AM
  #120
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Either way, Snow's done a very good job of bringing in the right type of players, of signing the core players to long-term deals, there's some depth in the organization for a change - so let's see how the team does and enjoy the season.
I think thats the best point of all, now forwards 13,14,15,16 etc. are not retread AHLer's but instead prospects like Rahkshani, Ullstrom, Dibenedetto. The 9,10,11 etc D are decent tweener guys like Reese and Wishart and prospects like Dehaan and Donovan.

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