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Old
09-30-2011, 09:48 AM
  #126
windycity
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there's a alot of overreaction going on on this board. Yes, there's work to do and we looked terrible last night but let's wait until the season starts and we're a fair bit in before we all start panicking. Imo, we're going to be fine.

That said, my view of last night

Budaj - awful, really bad
Diaz - not ready for prime time, overmatched defensively
PK - overcomplicated things but ok
Campoli - solid, along with PK our best Dman on the night
Yemelin - inconsistent but tools are there
Blunden - meh at best
Bournival - overmatched, off to Ham
Enqvist - oh boy, needs to step it up
Desharnais - some nice stuff offensively but bad on D. Probably should play as a winger
AK - asleep, the bad AK we see too much of
Cole - ok
MaxPax - not a good game for him
Cami - ok but missed 2 golden opportunities. But rather he miss them now the when it counts
Gallagher - started strong but faded, he'll be back in Vcr as he should be
Gomer - looked good

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09-30-2011, 09:50 AM
  #127
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Anybody already missing Hamrlik?
Here !

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09-30-2011, 09:50 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I disagree. Or rather, I'll hedge -- he didn't seem out of place and even looked good, so long as the puck was in the offensive zone.

As soon as the Sabres got possession, however, DD became invisible and you wouldn't hear his name spoken again -- because the Sabres would maintain possession in the Habs' zone and DD just could not get the puck back.

Unlike Tampa, Buffalo didn't score, but I thought that game a perfect illustration of why DD is aces on the PP but can't match up against top-6ers at evens. He's got great offensive awareness and fantastic puck skills, but his defensive abilities just aren't there yet.

This isn't a knock on DD's spot with the team -- he'll slaughter fourth-liners and several third lines. But it explains why he's fourth on the Habs' C depth chart, not second as some would have you believe.
Gotta agree with this...I personally would rather see DD on the wing. I'm looking forward to Lars Eller returning as I think he made major strides towards the end of the year and was arguably our best defensive center down the stretch.

I don't think DD has a future on this team at center personally...it's too much responsibility in his own end. I'd rather see him on the wing where he surprisingly wins the majority of his battles.

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Here !
I miss Markov more...can't wait to see him in action again, whether that's in 2 weeks or 2 months, I don't care. As long as he's back healthy


Last edited by Mike8: 09-30-2011 at 10:07 AM. Reason: merge
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09-30-2011, 09:52 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by windycity View Post
there's a alot of overreaction going on on this board. Yes, there's work to do and we looked terrible last night but let's wait until the season starts and we're a fair bit in before we all start panicking. Imo, we're going to be fine.

That said, my view of last night

Budaj - awful, really bad
Diaz - not ready for prime time, overmatched defensively
Blunden - meh at best
Bournival - overmatched, off to Ham
Enqvist - oh boy, needs to step it up
Desharnais - some nice stuff offensively but bad on D. Probably should play as a winger
AK - asleep, the bad AK we see too much of


PK - overcomplicated things but ok
Campoli - solid, along with PK our best Dman on the night
Gallagher - started strong but faded, he'll be back in Vcr as he should be
Gomer - looked good
Engqvist= the ultimate Jacques Martin wet dream...

A.K. is probably demoralized because he is on a third line... F... him !

OUR real coach was behind the other bench last night !


This team has a very average defence corp and as usual too many small forwards....

Mr.Molson should be glad to have packed his Bell Centre 5 times in the pre-season because he won't have the opportunity this season to have playoff games.

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09-30-2011, 10:18 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I disagree. Or rather, I'll hedge -- he didn't seem out of place and even looked good, so long as the puck was in the offensive zone.

As soon as the Sabres got possession, however, DD became invisible and you wouldn't hear his name spoken again -- because the Sabres would maintain possession in the Habs' zone and DD just could not get the puck back.

Unlike Tampa, Buffalo didn't score, but I thought that game a perfect illustration of why DD is aces on the PP but can't match up against top-6ers at evens. He's got great offensive awareness and fantastic puck skills, but his defensive abilities just aren't there yet.

This isn't a knock on DD's spot with the team -- he'll slaughter fourth-liners and several third lines. But it explains why he's fourth on the Habs' C depth chart, not second as some would have you believe.
Agreed. Against tough opposition, he'll probably fare better as a winger..

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09-30-2011, 10:47 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
I'm looking forward to Lars Eller returning as I think he made major strides towards the end of the year and was arguably our best defensive center down the stretch.
I'm curious what you thought of Plekanec's play down the stretch.

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09-30-2011, 10:49 AM
  #132
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I'm curious what you thought of Plekanec's play down the stretch.
Can't remember off hand...I just recall being very impressed by Eller's work. But Plekanec is always pretty reliable defensively. But I think the coaching staff asks him to do too much heavy lifting IMO. They should ease his PK duties (as well as Cammy's) at the very least.

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09-30-2011, 10:50 AM
  #133
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Okay, let's all settle down... it's only pre season.... Would have like the Habs to do better? You bet, but am i going to go crazy about this like some on this board? Let's take a deep breath... okay we're all relax now....

I would have been more confident with Roman Hamrlik still in our line-up, since he's not, we have to work around this....

Budaj didn't do very good as a number one in Colorado, i'm sure he will do better as a number 2 in Montreal, let's give him some time, and let the team work a defensive system....

Price will be Price, so no need to panic yet...

As mentionned, let our defensive minded head coach and his defensive minded coaching crew install their system... Of last year team, Subban, Gill, Spacek and Weber are the ones who where there. Subban's a gem, Weber is green, the rest are spare parts.... With a system, and a tighter defense (specially until Markov comes in)
It won't be great, but it will be fine

Subban will be the general, nothing to add

Gorges will be a fine lieutenant, always working hard, always present, always steady... (Was i afraid when he twisted his knee yesterday) no problem there

When The secretary of defense Andrei Markov comes back, we'll have a very solid top 3 there, not the best, but definetly not the worst

Now the rest of the crew, the platoon patrol

Gill, in a limited time, with the system, playing with Gorges or Subban is a veteran that will do his best, is it going to be enough? i'm not sure but for better or worse, for 60-70 games, he will be okay

Chris Campoli will be a good addition, he will eat minutes, put some points on the board, will not be as reliable defensively as Hamrlik or offensively as Wisniewski but he will be a good soldier on the ice...

Spacek, see Gill, un a limited role, with no more than 17 minutes of ice, he will be just fine as a 5-6 D

Never forget that in this now fast pace NHL, it's probably a little harder for older guys to get in game shape fast, be in shape? No, they are all training, but game shape is more complicated and when your not an all-star to begin with.... so we'll see

Yannick Weber, like Streit before, the possibility of playing forward is saving is butt for now, he will never be a top 4, but a 22 year old player needs one thing, it is to play and i'm not going to overjudge on exhibition game when you change player all the time and when you want to do to much... in the right game situation with a regular line-up, and with a defensive system implement, he will be fine...

That leaves us with the comrade Emelin... I have confidence that by december, well paired, well coach and acclimated to the ice surface, the league and the new surrounding, he will be in the top 4.... work needs to be done, but he shall be a player for us, it's just a question of time until he puts everything together...

In front... if Jacques Martin, like the coaches in the 80's, wants to match 3rd line againts oppening teams top line, we will be in serious trouble... DD is not a defensive machine, specially not at center and AK doesn't have consistency as is motto... but let's be serious here

In a regular season setting, i doubt that the 3rd line we saw yesterday will face a top line in montreal on purpose, specially when that top line includes two of, arguably, the top 10 forwards in the NHL (Stamkos and Saint-Louis) so, let's not freak about this....

I think Cammy will have a great season, 3 goals already, couple of missed chances last night, he'll be fine

Cole is a nice addition that will provide offense and a physical presence...

I'm worried about Plek pre-season, no results, i don't mind, but for me. he's always the hardest working player on this team, and he has not showed that to me yet, but he's a veteran, we'll see.

I cannot imagine that Gomez can do worst than last year. so he should be an upgrade....

I think it will be the break-out year of Pacioretty, i'm confident he will be a force for this team

Gionta (as Gill and Spacek) takes longer to get ready for game play, remember last year? hard beginning, great end of season, it's not as much age as the fact that a guy of his stature, playing that kind of game, it takes is toll....

DD on the wing and PP, with minimum apport on defense will work for this team...

Let's hope AK realise that it is the last year of his contract, and that with less pressure on a 3rd line can carry the load....

Darche is a warrior that can help at every level of the game so it's okay...

In a regular situation, Eller, White and Moen are ready and play in that line-up... Even if they are 3rd or 4th line player don't underestimate their contribution to the line up

In that case, Eller centers the 3rd with AK and DD, White leads the 4th with Moen and Darche and the 13 forward is whatever....

but now, guys like Enqvist, Palushaj or Blunden are not just fillers, they need to play, which they do in preseason BUT in regular season, in certain games, the 4th will only get limited amount of time

Which lead us to Gallagher... In the mentioned situation, he should be sign and at least play the 9 games until the line up is fully settle

SO basically, i can be completly off the field, but until mid-october, i'm not going to judge the team result by panicking...

can't wait for october 6th

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Old
09-30-2011, 11:09 AM
  #134
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Mitch Melnick said something that made me think about DD on the wing. He said, "he will not last skating down the wing. He will get crushed by dfensemen over and over and his body will break down."

When I think that DD had two chances to play 1st center since he has been a Hab, once last year and once in pre-season.... and both ties he was knocked out for a few games after because of injury.....

I do not want to be a constant DD basher...honestly, but I long for some size down the middle..... It has been a loooooong road.

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09-30-2011, 11:10 AM
  #135
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As far as preseason goes, it's not encouraging to be 1-6, but Vancouver's also had a crummy preseason. Boston's lost twice to Ottawa. It's just preseason and it's unfair to make any assumptions based on this.

If we start the regular season1-6, then I'll gladly start feeling a bit uneasy, but not before then.


Last edited by Mike8: 09-30-2011 at 11:20 AM.
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Old
09-30-2011, 11:13 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Mitch Melnick said something that made me think about DD on the wing. He said, "he will not last skating down the wing. He will get crushed by dfensemen over and over and his body will break down."

When I think that DD had two chances to play 1st center since he has been a Hab, once last year and once in pre-season.... and both ties he was knocked out for a few games after because of injury.....

I do not want to be a constant DD basher...honestly, but I long for some size down the middle..... It has been a loooooong road.
Melnick always brings it up, but I find it makes no sense...playing center is alot more likely to make DD 'break down' than playing wing.

Playing left wing hasn't 'broken down' Nathan Gerbe in Buffalo, in fact, he excels there...I think the Habs can do something similar with DD.

Playing center will be A LOT more taxing on DD than playing wing.

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09-30-2011, 11:19 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Melnick always brings it up, but I find it makes no sense...playing center is alot more likely to make DD 'break down' than playing wing.

Playing left wing hasn't 'broken down' Nathan Gerbe in Buffalo, in fact, he excels there...I think the Habs can do something similar with DD.

Playing center will be A LOT more taxing on DD than playing wing.
I've also never shared the sentiment that playing wing is tougher on smaller players than the centre-position. Playing @ C requires far more one-on-one battles, and size/strength plays more of a role there.

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09-30-2011, 11:21 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Melnick always brings it up, but I find it makes no sense...playing center is alot more likely to make DD 'break down' than playing wing.

Playing left wing hasn't 'broken down' Nathan Gerbe in Buffalo, in fact, he excels there...I think the Habs can do something similar with DD.

Playing center will be A LOT more taxing on DD than playing wing.
Gerbe is a much thicker body type and faster than DD, agree?

Some small guys can slip checks and battle through like Gionta and St. Louis, I have not seen that in DD's game yet.

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09-30-2011, 11:23 AM
  #139
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I've also never shared the sentiment that playing wing is tougher on smaller players than the centre-position. Playing @ C requires far more one-on-one battles, and size/strength plays more of a role there.
Furthermore, i've always found that DD wins his fair share of battles on the boards...and it's also why I would much prefer seeing Eller play center on the 3rd line as he's got the size/strength to play there alot more than DD does IMO.

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09-30-2011, 11:23 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Gerbe is a much thicker body type and faster than DD, agree?

Some small guys can slip checks and battle through like Gionta and St. Louis, I have not seen that in DD's game yet.
That's a quality necessary for smaller players at C as well. Think Koivu, Ribeiro.

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09-30-2011, 11:26 AM
  #141
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Gerbe is a much thicker body type and faster than DD, agree?

Some small guys can slip checks and battle through like Gionta and St. Louis, I have not seen that in DD's game yet.
I don't know about that...DD is built pretty solid despite his height. Although I do agree Gerbe's probably got better acceleration than DD...

But i've seen DD slip through checks and battle along the boards just fine so far. It's what impresses me the most with him. I don't think size in an issue for DD when he's playing wing, but when he plays center...it is.

seems pretty evident to me.

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09-30-2011, 11:34 AM
  #142
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It's pretty much a well known fact that size is far more important for a center than a winger. How people try to argue against that I don't understand. It's also pretty much a well known fact that at the NHL level DD is successful at winger and terrible centering. Again, don't see why people keep saying put DD as a center. He sucks as center and could be useful as a 2nd draw guy anyways.

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09-30-2011, 11:56 AM
  #143
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Honestly the only reason Tampa looked better yesterday was because it was not their first game has a almost complete team. The organisation wanted to play a lot of young players in the pre-season. Now it's time for the regular player to understand they need to play has a team and end up the pre-season with a good performance.

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09-30-2011, 12:06 PM
  #144
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Massive post
Hey dude settle down, don't want folks thinking I'm you posting on another account

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09-30-2011, 12:07 PM
  #145
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Mitch Melnick said something that made me think about DD on the wing. He said, "he will not last skating down the wing. He will get crushed by dfensemen over and over and his body will break down."
Even if this was true, who cares as long as we get a few good years service out of him. I don't think its true, I'm just saying, if it was, its irelevant.

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09-30-2011, 12:42 PM
  #146
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Hey dude settle down, don't want folks thinking I'm you posting on another account
Wait, now I really think that's the case.

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09-30-2011, 12:57 PM
  #147
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I don't know about that...DD is built pretty solid despite his height. Although I do agree Gerbe's probably got better acceleration than DD...

But i've seen DD slip through checks and battle along the boards just fine so far. It's what impresses me the most with him. I don't think size in an issue for DD when he's playing wing, but when he plays center...it is.

seems pretty evident to me.
Seems to be the common belief too. I just don't agree. I can't see him as a top two line player on a final 8 team.

There are many in teh mdeia which are huge DD cheerleaders....such as last night when RDS did the "game in numbers" segment where they show three game specific stats. DD being a -4 was point 2, but they glazed right over that to the third one, hardly even mentioning it.

I think people are too obsessed with the whole underdog thing.

Quote:
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Even if this was true, who cares as long as we get a few good years service out of him. I don't think its true, I'm just saying, if it was, its irelevant.
That is assuming that he can give us a few good years. I doubt it, but I hope for the sake of the Habs he poves me wrong. They seem to really be counting on him developing into something worth keeping.


Last edited by Mike8: 09-30-2011 at 01:06 PM. Reason: merge
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09-30-2011, 01:05 PM
  #148
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That is assuming that he can give us a few good years. I doubt it, but I hope for the sake of the Habs he poves me wrong. They seem to really be counting on him developing into something worth keeping.
Maybe not, for all we know in their mind he may just be a "fix" until youngsters like Leblanc, Bournival or Gallagher are ready.

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09-30-2011, 01:15 PM
  #149
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Mr.Molson should be glad to have packed his Bell Centre 5 times in the pre-season because he won't have the opportunity this season to have playoff games.
Yup. I felt the last couple of post-season play was a combination of luck and stellar goalie work. I'd be shocked if we make it to 8th.

Not making the playoffs won't bother me. Getting bullied does. That **** drives me crazy.

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09-30-2011, 01:18 PM
  #150
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One pre-season game with not even a complete roster and people are writing off the season?

Does anyone else see the problem with thinkinh this way? We make fun of leafs fans who think their team will make the playoffs because of a 29 game stretch, but this is much worse, it's simply ridiculous.

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