I said yes, will have to say yes now. Though, this would not make it a perfect defense, it would add stability to a team who has to play with 2 guys with no experience at the NHL level. Hamrlik was overused last year and people decided to blame him while not taking into consideration that fact. Once Markov comes back, Hamrlike would have taken his regular spot. Hamrlik is clearly ahead of Gill at this stage and if the price was what he asked, thinking we didn't have better, I would have taken it.
NOW, it's clearly NOT the type of defense I have in mind. Yes, puckmovers are great and a must. But at one point, you also need some front of the net cleaners and bodycheckers, and guys you'd be afraid of going on their side 'cause you might be on your ass.....It takes a mix in a team to make it work. We don't have that mix on our team, which means we surely don't have it in our defense. But that would be to have a perfect team. We're not there yet.
I agree with you... Hamr is a decent option... I know he was overused (he typically was here, because he is so responsible). But he was missing more and more marks last year, and I also agree (sadly) with the sentiment that he was looking really rough at the 60 game mark.
IMO considering what Gauthier has brought in on the point... It was a good time to decide to cut him loose. I still believe in Hamr > Gill though...
Problem is, we have a lot of d that could fit in to the 2nd pairing LS, and IMO by the beginning of November, it'll be an afterthought.
I did like some of the things I saw with Campoli last night. And I do not doubt that Yemelin will adjust to the NHL soon enough. I cant help wishing though that we would have gotten a good quality DMan in the offseason to take some of the pressure off of Markov.
I would agree that we lack a top 4 dman
Right now our depth chart look like this :
2 number 1 dmens : Markov, Subban
1 true top 4 dman : Gorges
3 5th dman (they can all play sometime has a top 4 though) : Campoli, Spacek, Gill
2 guys able to do a number 6th role in the NHL IMO (but the two have top 4 potential though) : Yemelin, Weber
1 guy that need sometime in the AHL, but could be a 6th dman after some experience as soon as this season : Diaz
1 capable 7th dman : Woywitka
So even when healthy we would need another top 4 to really have a very good defensive squad (it could be from within though like from strong play by Spacek or Campoli above what they played in the last few seasons, or with youngs players like Yemelin and Weber). To be fair we have probably the possibility to have one of the best bottom pairing in the league and in the best 7th guys.
The real problem is when Markov is hurt the depth isn't looking has good with only two real top 4 guys in Subban and Gorges.
Hamrlik was a good top 4 dmen and this team's defense is somewhat young but inexperienced with Yemelin and Weber. Hamrlik was rather strong and not fragile. He never got any serious injury and always elevated his game when Markov was sidelined. With Markov out of the lineup, this team's defense doesn't look that great with only Gorges and Subban as top 4 D. I am not too sure how Campoli can replace Hamrlik's departure.
We'll miss him at times while the young guys go through tough stretches throughout the year, but it was time to move on. Hamrlik was too old and slow. Playing teams like Boston we need more of a physical presence on the blueline and he just doesn't bring that. It was time for the organization to move on, he's only getting worse. Yemelin and Diaz haven't even played an NHL game yet give them time. Once again this is another team that we shouldn't worry too much about because they will gel down the stretch and play hard in the playoffs (granting we stay healthy and make it). I like the youth movement on the blue line and hopefully Markov can get back soon. All in all we're better off without him and the kind of money and years he wanted to stay.
He blocks a lot of shots. More than Gill. However, will we miss him being pushed around by players both bigger and smaller than him ? Will we miss him getting upset, then either taking a stupid penalty, or embarrassing himself ? No. Gill is only here for 1 more season, unlike Hammer, who would have fallen out of favour by right about now.
The man was eating up 22+ minutes every game and even though he was at that age, he never got seriously injured (from what I remember) and always stepped up his game when Markov went down.
Now with the D-corps being a bit unknown due to Markov's unknown return date, this is what our opening night would probably look like (IMO)
Gill-Subban
Gorges-Campoli
Yemelin/Weber/Spacek (any 2 of the 3, I have no clue, but I like Weber a lot between those 3)
If Hamrlik would still be here, it would probably look like this, in no particulaer order (Campoli wouldn't have been signed IMO).
Subban-Weber/Yemelin
Hamrlik-Spacek/Yemelin
Gill-Gorges
I might have the sides wrong too
For whatever reason, I'm not sure of the some.
What do you think?
He's a year older and a year slower. I'd rather have Campoli and Yemelin than Hamrlik and Gill. As for Weber, I see more in Diaz, although of course I'm not a professional scout. Maybe Weber can serve as the 13th forward. Spacek? He's just palying out his contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nittany
No. We're missing a meaningful upgrade in talent on D...
Have patience, mon fils.
Last edited by Mike8: 10-01-2011 at 01:26 PM.
Reason: merge
Hammer was stalwart on D for us during his tenure, despite his foot speed and occasional bobblehead plays. But his departure will give a chance for younger, cusp-of-NHL-ready guys to step up and show what they're capable of with more minutes. Subban did just that last season. Yemelin, Diaz, Weber and Woywitka all have a chance to break the roster and show that they deserve to stay on D. Should onyl one of them do that, it was a non-signing well worth it.
I too think that Hammer's time has come and he has 1 (BIG maybe for two) good seasons left, so as much as I appreciate everything he did for us, this was the perfect timing for his contract to end and to move on.
He'll fit like a glove playing with Green in Washington and he would've been good for us this year, but I still wouldn't give him a 2+ year contract. Time for Weber and Yemelin to step up and claim their spots for good.
The man was eating up 22+ minutes every game and even though he was at that age, he never got seriously injured (from what I remember) and always stepped up his game when Markov went down.
Now with the D-corps being a bit unknown due to Markov's unknown return date, this is what our opening night would probably look like (IMO)
Gill-Subban
Gorges-Campoli
Yemelin/Weber/Spacek (any 2 of the 3, I have no clue, but I like Weber a lot between those 3)
If Hamrlik would still be here, it would probably look like this, in no particulaer order (Campoli wouldn't have been signed IMO).
Subban-Weber/Yemelin
Hamrlik-Spacek/Yemelin
Gill-Gorges
I might have the sides wrong too
For whatever reason, I'm not sure of the some.
What do you think?
As far as I'm concerned, we are going to miss Hamrlik all season long. Losing a great defencemen like him and having Markov out with injury all season long is going to make it very hard for the Habs to make the playoffs.
We should have kept Hamrlik and got rid of Gill IMO.
Subban is going to have to have a huge season on the Habs blueline without the likes of Hamrlik and Markov around.
Oh yeah.....that Markov contract was the worse contract I've ever seen. I love Markov, but you don't give him that much money for 3 years if his knee is wrecked. He'll likely never be the same player again!
No sense in arguing. Hamrlik had so many fanboys on this site that could not accpet the fact he was on a sharp decline defensively. Fantastic his first two seasons here, dreadful to watch the two after.
As far as I'm concerned, we are going to miss Hamrlik all season long. Losing a great defencemen like him and having Markov out with injury all season long is going to make it very hard for the Habs to make the playoffs.
We should have kept Hamrlik and got rid of Gill IMO.
Subban is going to have to have a huge season on the Habs blueline without the likes of Hamrlik and Markov around.
Oh yeah.....that Markov contract was the worse contract I've ever seen. I love Markov, but you don't give him that much money for 3 years if his knee is wrecked. He'll likely never be the same player again!
No sense in arguing. Hamrlik had so many fanboys on this site that could not accpet the fact he was on a sharp decline defensively. Fantastic his first two seasons here, dreadful to watch the two after.
Do you know what the word dreadful means? Yes he declined, but he was still useful. By no means was he extremely bad.
No not yet....but what gives you the impression that he's going to be able to play 70+ games this year? The man just had 2 knee surgeries on the same knee in less than a full year....and now his knee is bothering him bad enough that he is going to miss time....who says his knee is ever going to be good enough that he can return and be the defencemen he once was?
Like I said....I love Markov and I HOPE that he can return and be as good as he was before....but there is also a very good chance that he'll never be able to play more than 30-40 games a season and be effective on the ice at all. To assume he will play a lot of games and be the same as he used to be is a stretch IMO. I hope it happens, but don't depend on it. Players have retired and ended their careers with less severe injuries....just sayin.
No not yet....but what gives you the impression that he's going to be able to play 70+ games this year? The man just had 2 knee surgeries on the same knee in less than a full year....and now his knee is bothering him bad enough that he is going to miss time....who says his knee is ever going to be good enough that he can return and be the defencemen he once was?
Like I said....I love Markov and I HOPE that he can return and be as good as he was before....but there is also a very good chance that he'll never be able to play more than 30-40 games a season and be effective on the ice at all. To assume he will play a lot of games and be the same as he used to be is a stretch IMO. I hope it happens, but don't depend on it. Players have retired and ended their careers with less severe injuries....just sayin.
I'm not the one who claimed anything here, you are.
I too think that Hammer's time has come and he has 1 (BIG maybe for two) good seasons left, so as much as I appreciate everything he did for us, this was the perfect timing for his contract to end and to move on.
Most of us agree, he wasn't worth it at 2 years. But I'm starting to question if maybe we should have offered him like $4.25 or $4.5m for one year. It might have been enough to persuade him for one year.
Realistically, we needed a top 4 dman to replace him and we never did. I like all of our young prospects but they are all 3rd pairing dman at best this year.
Markov
Subban
Gorges
are the only top 4 calibre dman and Gorges is borderline.
Gill
Spacek
Campoli
Weber
Yemelin
Diaz
are all 3rd pairing dman. I really hope this defence by committee strategy can work.
a big lost for the habs , we were talking a lot about him last year with my friend when we watch Habs games . We kept saying how good he was on the defensif side and always winning is battle in the corners, praticly never make mistake and always finding a way to keep the puck out of the zone .Don't understand why they did'nt sign him ... to bad,a big lost who will cost a couples of points during the season hope Markov will return fast and stay healty because without him could have some problems in defense
Personally, I think we'll miss a vet #4 center just as much. Our top lines were slow starters to each of the last two seasons. Moore & Halpern won some faceoffs and scored some timely goals for us. I don't see that depth this year. I'm hoping Eller and DD can help carry the load offensively.
Hammer gave us the most he could, stepped up when Markov went down and did whatever job they asked him to. Always will look back at his time here fondly.
The issue though is even though we all agree we need a top 4 minute eater this season, we have it next year and beyond in guys moving up so more than just 1 more year of Hammer was going to be counter productive to the development curve of younger guys. I would still have chose Gill over Hammer for the fact that he is a more defensive dman, and to mentor someone in that mold he makes the most sense. We have a couple of offensive Dmen that can teach Weber and Diaz etc.. Markov and Subban.
