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PGT: 5-1 We are doomed! Let's tank!!

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:01 AM
  #176
sammy d
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Here. I will say it one last time to hopefully end the red herring arguments.

Enforcers do not stop elbows to the head. Never have. Never will.

Now that I got that out of the way, the reality facing the Habs this season is the rest of the NHL knows that they can run our skill players.

I didnt say elbows to the head. No, they can run Price in the hopes of taking his out of his game. They can run Pleks. They can drop the gloves with Kostitsyn. They can target any player that they want to without reprecussions.

Enforcers do not stop elbows to the head.

An enforcer/tough guy would have gone after Malone for knocking Price over. Same for Downey when he pushed our player onto Price. Same for Downey when he went after Kostitsyn. That type of retribution, revenge, retaliation........whatever word you want to use........will make players think twice about going after skilled players. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Enforcers do not stop elbows to the head.
agree 100 %

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:02 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
And Malone could have simply ignored him.
He may have ignored the first punch to the face. The second probably would have gotten his attention.

A two minute instigator penalty is worth every second when you send a message to an idiot like Malone.

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10-02-2011, 12:03 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
So we dominate a team 5-1 and all people can do is ***** about one hit.

Seriously, I think this proves how negative habs fans are.

We don't get comments about how impressed they were and that maybe they were wrong about complaining just two days ago that the habs had only won one pre-season game and that maybe, if the team continues to play this way at this level that can actually be a good team.

It's obvious you guys have an agenda against the team, since no matter what you *****. Your act is getting old.
Because it's just a meaningless preseason game. It doesn't get you 2 or 1 points. The hit on Campoli has the potential to affect our regular season
if he is seriously injured. That's why people are talking more about the hit than the win.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:07 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
He may have ignored the first punch to the face. The second probably would have gotten his attention.

A two minute instigator penalty is worth every second when you send a message to an idiot like Malone.
Or he could've turtled, we'd have gotten 7 minutes of penalty and our enforcer would have been suspended.

Tough guys don't send a message. Players like Cooke still do their thing when facing supposed tough teams like Boston.

The only thing that will stop dirty players is hurting their bank account. That means lengthy suspensions. If that isn't enough, then nothing will stop them.

Well, I guess you could always send someone out to injure them intentionally.

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10-02-2011, 12:07 AM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
So we dominate a team 5-1 and all people can do is ***** about one hit.

Seriously, I think this proves how negative habs fans are.

We don't get comments about how impressed they were and that maybe they were wrong about complaining just two days ago that the habs had only won one pre-season game and that maybe, if the team continues to play this way at this level that can actually be a good team.

It's obvious you guys have an agenda against the team, since no matter what you *****. Your act is getting old.

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=142

At the bottom of the post.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:08 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
What do you mean? You don't see guys like Krejci, Savard, Bergeron, and Horton getting hit like this with Chara, Lucic, and/or Thornton in the lineup.
Where's the emoticon?

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10-02-2011, 12:09 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
So we dominate a team 5-1 and all people can do is ***** about one hit.
Seriously, I think this proves how negative habs fans are.
I remember a game we were up 4-0 with the 2nd almost over and we lost a player for the rest of the season, heck I thought he was dead on the ice. That was just one hit as well that pretty much changed our season.

Wouldn't it be nice to have someone kick the living crap out of a player when they tried anything dirty? I remember guys like Nilan, Odelein etc. Could fight and play. We are missing a guy like that.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:10 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Gary320 View Post
What you did there..

I see it.
You don't see it until you actually see it.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:10 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Man with all those headshots, Boston really should go out and get some tough guys to protect them. They're so soft.

In fact they must be the softest team in the league..

Savard(2x)
Bergeron(2x)
Krecji
Horton

Their GM is gutless.
Do us all a favor and post this in every toughness thread and every thread where someone mentions we need a goon.

Team toughness is the best remedy and even then, you cannot stop a man who has his mind set on something.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:14 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
I think people are concerned that we may have lost a top-4 defenceman to concussion and another needs stitches. "We completely dominated" doesn't compensate for that, nor will Malone not playing for five or ten or fifty games compensate us for that.
It will help. Malone is unlikely to make a dirty hit against the Habs this season.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:16 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Carey Chant View Post
I remember a game we were up 4-0 with the 2nd almost over and we lost a player for the rest of the season, heck I thought he was dead on the ice. That was just one hit as well that pretty much changed our season.

Wouldn't it be nice to have someone kick the living crap out of a player when they tried anything dirty? I remember guys like Nilan, Odelein etc. Could fight and play. We are missing a guy like that.
So you want guys to fight players after the hit has been committed...and that stops the hit how?

Again, the Bruins must be one soft team with all those headshots they've recieved. Their GM is gutless.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:19 AM
  #187
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all I know is that I want the Habs to play like they did tonight against the Laffs on thursday. A 5 -1 or 6-1 score would be nice.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:24 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Gary320 View Post
Personally, I don't see Andrei Kostitsyn and Weber around past February.

Wouldn't be surprised if they are packaged.

Although I have dislike AK's performance at many times. I know he's going to be a monster somewhere else.
Trouble is, the Habs wouldn't get back someon who's going in be a monster for them. I "know" that Kostitsyn will play longer in the NHL than anyone the Habs get in return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackZap View Post
Malone was a ***** all night. DD hasnt been stellar these past few games.
You noticed? DD usually gets a free ride on this foru.


Last edited by Mike8: 10-02-2011 at 12:43 AM. Reason: merge
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Old
10-02-2011, 12:33 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
So you want guys to fight players after the hit has been committed...and that stops the hit how?

Again, the Bruins must be one soft team with all those headshots they've recieved. Their GM is gutless.

Red herring is an idiomatic expression referring to the rhetorical or literary tactic of diverting attention away from an item of significance.

Again, you bring up the red herring argument.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:38 AM
  #190
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CHILLLLLLLLL OUUTTTTTTTTT!!!! You guys are exagerating our "lack of toughness". One hit, and your guys explode. Its unbelievable. Yea we have alot of injuries but none of them are from being hit hard, or beaten by toughness. Everyone just relax, take a step back, and stop being so ********** rash in saying something that doesnt make sense!!!

You guys want George Laraques back? I don't! Because thats the exact type of person who guys all claim we win. Having Laraque in that game tonight would not have prevented Malone hit.

CHILLLLLLL OUTTTTTT

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:40 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Red herring is an idiomatic expression referring to the rhetorical or literary tactic of diverting attention away from an item of significance.

Again, you bring up the red herring argument.
So what you are telling me is that you can't explain why the Bruins, a team full of tough players and protectors, are in fact not protected from headshots and dirty plays.

It looks like you'll need to revise your theory because you have pretty significant evidence that runs against it.

If the Bruins get targetted...it must mean they are soft right? That's what people have been telling me in this thread.

Lastly, I'm not diverting attention away from anything, your theory simply can't account for this big exception. Any theory that can't explain anything that counters it is a pretty terrible theory and is precisely why I don't subscribe to it. It's logically not sound and I'll show you why.

claim #1: Y happens because there is a lack of X
claim #2: wherever X is present, Y doesn't occur.
Conclusion: Therefore, acquire x to prevent y.

However we have instances where people do have X, yet Y still occurs, thus your conclusion is not a sound one. This leads me to believe that X doesn't prevent Y, you have to show me that it does.

So it's either you come up with some reason why people still get cheapshotted in the presence of protectors, enforcers and tough players or your theory is a bad one.

It's not a red-herring...it's a hole in your argument.

The only red-herring here is your post because your the only one trying to divert attention away from a very big problem in your argument.

Edit: I wrote the wrong letter in the conclusion.


Last edited by Andy: 10-02-2011 at 12:45 AM.
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Old
10-02-2011, 12:42 AM
  #192
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team toughness does not = big george

I don't think most people are wanting a goon, just some tougher guys to stick up for their team mates which will possibly make guys like Malone think twice before gooning it up.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:42 AM
  #193
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No word on Campoli tonight according to Elliotte Friedman. He'll be evaluated tomorrow.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:45 AM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
By the way: the last time a similar hit was made on a Montreal Canadien that I recall (and, these types of hits were made popular by Downie on McAmmond, I believe) ... was Colby Armstrong on Saku Koivu. Souray was on the ice and pounded a turtling Armstrong. Didn't deter Armstrong from pulling such shenanigans in the future, though, and it didn't prevent him from targeting Montreal's captain on that night.

So those of you turning this Malone hit into some call-for-a-goon, well, I'd say you're misguided.
It sure shut up Armstrong for the rest of the game and that is the point ; what didn't happen as opposed to what could have. For example, Malone goes off on Subban, Alex Henry skates over (just an example) and takes Malone's head off... suddenly, Camploi dosen't get speared, Price dosen't get shoved into his own net, Campoli dosen't take a head shot and possible injury and Georges dosen't spurt blood all over the place.

So, say Souray wasn't around to hammer Armstrong ; who's to say he dosen't blind side Kovalev, spear Markov and kung fu kick Plekanec in the face!?!

Every pre-season, followed by every season, events take place that scream "why do guys like Georges and CAMALLARI have to defend themselves / team mates while management sits on their thumbs??"

Why is so hard to understand that having a guy on the bench will stop idiots from teeing off on the talented guys. If YOU (or any poster here, another example) wanted to drill a guy but you knew in the back of your head that you would be eating fist at some point if you DO hit that guy, wouldn't you think twice? I would.

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10-02-2011, 12:48 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
It sure shut up Armstrong for the rest of the game and that is the point ;
That's not the point at all. The point is to prevent cheapshots. And it didn't in Armstrong's case. The cheapshot had been committed. Had he run around more after already committing the cheapshot, he certainly would have faced league disciplinary action.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Why is so hard to understand that having a guy on the bench will stop idiots from teeing off on the talented guys.
Because, frankly, that's a misguided belief. And there's pages upon pages of people in this thread pointing to the Bruins as being the prime example that deterrents don't work. Having a tough team + goons still doesn't prevent cheapshots. The B's receive cheapshots regularly--more than Montreal, even.

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10-02-2011, 12:59 AM
  #196
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If fighting is the next to be reviewed by Shanahan, why do we need a goon???

The way I see it, if we have the guys like Cole, Gorges, Moen and others who play hard and are willing to back up a player, who needs a goon. The days of fighting to win a Cup are over, this isn't the 70's with the Bad Bruins or the Broadstreet Bullies in Philly!

Sure Boston won a Cup with a tough team, but they barely beat us...the team that is the small and weak team so many refer to.

Last time I checked you win with goals in the net, not the number of fighting majors.

Malone type of hits are going to happen all the time, and it won't matter if we have a line of goons in the line up. Until the players realize Shanahan and the league are setting precedent and are making the player respect each other more and think before they hit, it will happen still. But, there will be a time when the players will adjust just like they have to every other rule that has been introduced to the league.

So many say hitting will be taken out of the league. It won't. I have watched this game for decades and have never seen so much head targeted hits like I have seen over the past 5 years. Players back in the day knew how to hit each other. There seemed to be hate a team, but it wasn't so much that you wanted to personally hurt that player so severely that you ruin and stop their career and income.

Shanahan and the NHL aren't trying to take hitting out of the game, they are trying to bring back a level of respect.

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10-02-2011, 01:02 AM
  #197
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[QUOTE=Andy;37353123]So we dominate a team 5-1 and all people can do is ***** about one hit.

[|QUOTE]

Didn't catch the game tonight huh Andy? Or last season, where Pacioretty suffered a broken neck or when Camallari had to defend himself or the countless other incidents that took place over the past how many seasons?!?

Just tonight, Malone went after Subban and dropped the gloves before getting taken down and sat on by Gill. Then he speared Campoli in the face and then the chest, throwing a punch his way as he got half way up. Then he trew Price into his own and celebrated as if he'd scored. THEN he flattened Campoli with a head shot and beat up on one of best defenders.

Downey tried to fight Kostitsyn, pushed Darche into Price and then speared Georges.

That's just off the top of my head.

One hit. How many games do you dominate taking physical abuse like that? Ever wonder WHY the Habs take so many injuries and miss so many man games year after year after year after year!??

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10-02-2011, 01:09 AM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
That's not the point at all. The point is to prevent cheapshots. And it didn't in Armstrong's case. The cheapshot had been committed. Had he run around more after already committing the cheapshot, he certainly would have faced league disciplinary action. .
I will admit, in order for an enforcer to be effective, a cheap shot has to have already happened. There is no sure-fire why to take out cheap shots but you can limit what happens after the first hit - or in the case of Malone tonight, sort him out before he gets to the pinacle of his dirtyness! Go at him after going after Subban and the rest dosen't happen. No?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Because, frankly, that's a misguided belief. And there's pages upon pages of people in this thread pointing to the Bruins as being the prime example that deterrents don't work. Having a tough team + goons still doesn't prevent cheapshots. The B's receive cheapshots regularly--more than Montreal, even.
The Stanley Cup Champion Bruins? Boston suffered nasty hits to Bergeron and Savard but how many more would they have taken had they not dealt with players themselves? Like I said above, enforcers limit, not prevent. Boston is also a team that gave as good as they got. Also, Boston grew in size and grit after the Bergeron and Savard hits.

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10-02-2011, 01:13 AM
  #199
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Didn't catch the game tonight huh Andy? Or last season, where Pacioretty suffered a broken neck or when Camallari had to defend himself or the countless other incidents that took place over the past how many seasons?!?
How would have protectors have prevented Pacioretty from getting injured, that's what I don't get. That game wasn't even a physical one. Why would Chara have stopped from doing that to Pacioretty simple because we have a fighter? It makes no sense. It makes no further sense considering that fighter wouldn't have been on the same line as Pacioretty.



Quote:
Downey tried to fight Kostitsyn, pushed Darche into Price and then speared Georges.
What does Downey having to fight Kostitsyn have to do with anything. Your logic is that fighting prevents dirty hits from happening or at least mitigates plays. Having Downey did not prevent Kostitsyn from hitting everything tonight. Even after the fight Kostitsyn was still delivering hits and delivers another one on Downey. He didn't deter him at all.



Quote:
One hit. How many games do you dominate taking physical abuse like that? Ever wonder WHY the Habs take so many injuries and miss so many man games year after year after year after year
Yes it's because of the lack of fighters that we have players who are injured because of cut tendons, groin pulls and muscle pulls. One player got injured last year because of a concussion, not 10.

Again if fighters prevent injuries, why are the Bruins continually on the recieving end of cheapshots? Were the Penguins decimated by injuries last year because they lacked fighters? No, in fact they had plenty, yet both their stars were out.

Again you haven't determined a causal relationship between the presence of fighters and protectors and cheapshots.

As far as Malone's hit...it wasn't dirty...it was reckless and the overall effect of the hit was caused more so by the positioning of Campoli and the little reaction time of Malone rather than Malone seeking out his head. It's not like he attacked Campoli with no puck and came into him east-west. Campoli's vuilnerable positioning because of his battling with another Tampa player plus Malone's recklessness is what caused the injury and wasn't the result of pure intentionality.

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10-02-2011, 01:15 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by 68 View Post
3
2
1
Before the people who can't admit that we are soft reply to your post and say the usual stuff like "Gionta may be small but he's a warrior" "Cammalleri doesn't back down" "Hurt them on the powerplay" "We have Ryan White" etc...
Please provide evidence that being tough will prevent cheap shots. Hmm, Boston is tough, but wait didn't they lose Savard...wait Pitt has some tough guys...huh, but Crosby took a headshot too. But you're right, only toughness will prevent cheap shots. Or maybe strict punishment. Obviously the players aren't heeding Shanahan's warning, so he'll need to make them understand. It takes the officials to do their jobs and penalize these hits.

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