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Old
10-02-2011, 12:15 AM
  #201
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I hope Campoli is alright.

The guy far exceeded my expectations of him.

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10-02-2011, 12:18 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
I will admit, in order for an enforcer to be effective, a cheap shot has to have already happened. There is no sure-fire why to take out cheap shots but you can limit what happens after the first hit - or in the case of Malone tonight, sort him out before he gets to the pinacle of his dirtyness! Go at him after going after Subban and the rest dosen't happen. No?





The Stanley Cup Champion Bruins? Boston suffered nasty hits to Bergeron and Savard but how many more would they have taken had they not dealt with players themselves? Like I said above, enforcers limit, not prevent. Boston is also a team that gave as good as they got. Also, Boston grew in size and grit after the Bergeron and Savard hits.
And one of their biggest guys was sitting in the dark in the cup final when he was hit in the head, ending his season, so the point you were trying to make was what?

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10-02-2011, 12:20 AM
  #203
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That's not the point at all. The point is to prevent cheapshots. And it didn't in Armstrong's case. The cheapshot had been committed. Had he run around more after already committing the cheapshot, he certainly would have faced league disciplinary action.




Because, frankly, that's a misguided belief. And there's pages upon pages of people in this thread pointing to the Bruins as being the prime example that deterrents don't work. Having a tough team + goons still doesn't prevent cheapshots. The B's receive cheapshots regularly--more than Montreal, even.
Mike, the Only people who bring up enforcers preventing cheapshots and head shots are the people who are against enforcers on a team.

Habs13, in reply to Andy, made the case for having a tougher team by pointing out the abuse Price, Subban and Kostitsyn had to face.

It isnt about Boston's players getting concussed. And you know that. But that is the only argument your side raises while ignoring the things that happen to our star players game after game.

Enforcers (and for anyone bringing up Laraque, he was a useless tool who did not stand up for his teammates while in Montreal) DO NOT PREVENT HEADSHOTS.

They do "take care of" the players who take liberties with their star players.

The Boston argument makes your side look very silly since many of us have repeatedly stated the obvious regarding headshots.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:21 AM
  #204
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Jim Vandermeer was available. He played 17 minutes + on D against the Canucks on Sept. 29. His + - was zero. Gauthier passed on him.

Mike Rupp scored 13 and 9 goals respectively over the last two years. Gauthier passed on him.

There are more players that Gauthier passed on who could help this team.
He wouldn't play 17 seconds on the Habs. The Oilers D sucks, and having watched Vandermeer, he sucks too, perfect fit.

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10-02-2011, 12:21 AM
  #205
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He may have ignored the first punch to the face. The second probably would have gotten his attention.

A two minute instigator penalty is worth every second when you send a message to an idiot like Malone.
You put too much stock in fighting. Malone and players like him won't change their tactics just because they think they might have to fight and lose. Malone will get 5-10 games for this and lose some money. The big test will be when players come back from these suspensions. If they reoffend then how many games??? 10-20 That should just about fix the problem. If not then keep ramping up the suspension until they get it...

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10-02-2011, 12:22 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
I will admit, in order for an enforcer to be effective, a cheap shot has to have already happened. There is no sure-fire why to take out cheap shots but you can limit what happens after the first hit - or in the case of Malone tonight, sort him out before he gets to the pinacle of his dirtyness! Go at him after going after Subban and the rest dosen't happen. No?
Not really. The sorting him out process is easier said than done. Often times, it leads to an escalation of hits and cheapshots until someone's injured or someone's tossed.

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10-02-2011, 12:22 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
I hope Campoli is alright.

The guy far exceeded my expectations of him.
Ditto. He looked very effective out there tonight. And his slapper is very good from the point. Just ask Dana Tyrell.

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10-02-2011, 12:23 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Mike, the Only people who bring up enforcers preventing cheapshots and head shots are the people who are against enforcers on a team.

Habs13, in reply to Andy, made the case for having a tougher team by pointing out the abuse Price, Subban and Kostitsyn had to face.

It isnt about Boston's players getting concussed. And you know that. But that is the only argument your side raises while ignoring the things that happen to our star players game after game.

Enforcers (and for anyone bringing up Laraque, he was a useless tool who did not stand up for his teammates while in Montreal) DO NOT PREVENT HEADSHOTS.

They do "take care of" the players who take liberties with their star players.

The Boston argument makes your side look very silly since many of us have repeatedly stated the obvious regarding headshots.
Please provide evidence that enforcers prevent liberties...in fact wouldn't you consider a liberty to be an elbow to the head? Further, if officials called penalties when these liberties were taken, then that would deter future liberties.

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10-02-2011, 12:23 AM
  #209
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Mike, the Only people who bring up enforcers preventing cheapshots and head shots are the people who are against enforcers on a team.
Uhm, the post I just responded to was advocating getting an enforcer.

BTW, I don't know what you're going on about with headshots. How is it any different than other cheapshots? Didn't this whole discussion come up in this thread with regards to the headshot on Campoli? And the B's have been cheapshotted beyond headshots, so I don't even see how it is relevant to raise this point.

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10-02-2011, 12:28 AM
  #210
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How would have protectors have prevented Pacioretty from getting injured, that's what I don't get. That game wasn't even a physical one. Why would Chara have stopped from doing that to Pacioretty simple because we have a fighter? It makes no sense. It makes no further sense considering that fighter wouldn't have been on the same line as Pacioretty.
Pacioretty vs. Chara was an on-going fued, not the result of a freak accident. It had been active since Paciretty's overtime goal and his shove towards Chara. Granted, there's nobody in hockey that can handle behemoth Chara so it's a hard point for me to make using those guys - replace Chara with Thornton and Pacioretty with Desharnais, a fighter could have done something about the situation before Thornton cheap shots Desharnais.


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What does Downey having to fight Kostitsyn have to do with anything. Your logic is that fighting prevents dirty hits from happening or at least mitigates plays. Having Downey did not prevent Kostitsyn from hitting everything tonight. Even after the fight Kostitsyn was still delivering hits and delivers another one on Downey. He didn't deter him at all.
It has everything to do with the topic at hand. Downey knows he can get away with whatever he wants so he can throw fists at a guy we pay to score. Kostitsyn isn't small but he isn't a fighter. (Minus his early time with the Habs)



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Yes it's because of the lack of fighters that we have players who are injured because of cut tendons, groin pulls and muscle pulls. One player got injured last year because of a concussion, not 10.

Again if fighters prevent injuries, why are the Bruins continually on the recieving end of cheapshots? Were the Penguins decimated by injuries last year because they lacked fighters? No, in fact they had plenty, yet both their stars were out.

Again you haven't determined a causal relationship between the presence of fighters and protectors and cheapshots.

As far as Malone's hit...it wasn't dirty...it was reckless and the overall effect of the hit was caused more so by the positioning of Campoli and the little reaction time of Malone rather than Malone seeking out his head. It's not like he attacked Campoli with no puck and came into him east-west. Campoli's vuilnerable positioning because of his battling with another Tampa player plus Malone's recklessness is what caused the injury and wasn't the result of pure intentionality.
If you're getting hit and thrown around by guys much bigger than you game in, game out, your body is taken damage amd your muscles are wearing down faster than normal. That's what I mean. Obviously, freak accidents like Markov's tendom can't be helped but not our injuries were freak accidents. Our smaller players are taken a beating over and over again!

Pittsburgh... well look, they have some of the best players and that's why they were targets. You can't prevent, only limit. IF enforcers didn't keep people away from Crosby and Malkin, why do they always, always have an enforcer or two on the Penguins roster?

Are you serious about Malone's hit on Campoli not being dirty? He left his feet and caught nothing but head, with an angled shoulder pad.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:28 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Hemlor View Post
Please provide evidence that enforcers prevent liberties...in fact wouldn't you consider a liberty to be an elbow to the head? Further, if officials called penalties when these liberties were taken, then that would deter future liberties.
Amazing.

Once again. Enforcers do not prevent elbows to the head. Repeat that over and over again. Once it sinks in, you will realize what I am saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Uhm, the post I just responded to was advocating getting an enforcer.

BTW, I don't know what you're going on about with headshots. How is it any different than other cheapshots? Didn't this whole discussion come up in this thread with regards to the headshot on Campoli? And the B's have been cheapshotted beyond headshots, so I don't even see how it is relevant to raise this point.

The "lets not fight back crowd" constantly bring up Boston and the players who were injured and had their seasons ended. Crosby comes up as well.

That is the constant mantra.........tough guys did not stop those injuries. Head injuries. Red herring argument.

Meanwhile, tonight, our goalie was knocked over twice, Subban was run, Campoli was speared, Kostitsyn had to fend off Downey and a non-fighting skill DMan had to take a pounding.

But you know that.


Last edited by Mike8: 10-02-2011 at 12:36 AM. Reason: merge
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Old
10-02-2011, 12:35 AM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlor View Post
Please provide evidence that enforcers prevent liberties...in fact wouldn't you consider a liberty to be an elbow to the head? Further, if officials called penalties when these liberties were taken, then that would deter future liberties.
All the nasty hits that didn't happen because of a fight, or because of a guy skating over to a borderline player and saying "knock it off or else". All those prevented incidents. Those are my proof.

How many head shots did Gretzky take while Semenko and and McSorley were around? What would happen if Roy was run while Nilan was on the team. Sat there on the bench?

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10-02-2011, 12:35 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The "lets not fight back crowd" constantly bring up Boston and the players who were injured and had their seasons ended. Crosby comes up as well.

That is the constant mantra.........tough guys did not stop those injuries. Head injuries. Red herring argument.

Meanwhile, tonight, our goalie was knocked over twice, Subban was run, Campoli was speared, Kostitsyn had to fend off Downey and a non-fighting skill DMan had to take a pounding.

But you know that.
I'm not sure if you actually addressed anything in my post.

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:37 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
All the nasty hits that didn't happen because of a fight, or because of a guy skating over to a borderline player and saying "knock it off or else". All those prevented incidents. Those are my proof.

How many head shots did Gretzky take while Semenko and and McSorley were around? What would happen if Roy was run while Nilan was on the team. Sat there on the bench?
Clearly you were too young to watch games in Gretzky era.

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10-02-2011, 12:38 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Clearly you were too young to watch games in Gretzky era.
I'm 33 years old so... yeeaaaahhh

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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Clearly you were too young to watch games in Gretzky era.
So, for fear of a bad memory I youtube'd "Gretzky head hit shot" and nothing came up but this!



NOT during his Oilers days and not a dirty nit and look what happens! Listen to the announcers words.

I guess people didn't own vcr's in the '80s.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 10-02-2011 at 01:44 AM. Reason: merged
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Old
10-02-2011, 12:51 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Amazing.

Once again. Enforcers do not prevent elbows to the head. Repeat that over and over again. Once it sinks in, you will realize what I am saying.




The "lets not fight back crowd" constantly bring up Boston and the players who were injured and had their seasons ended. Crosby comes up as well.

That is the constant mantra.........tough guys did not stop those injuries. Head injuries. Red herring argument.

Meanwhile, tonight, our goalie was knocked over twice, Subban was run, Campoli was speared, Kostitsyn had to fend off Downey and a non-fighting skill DMan had to take a pounding.

But you know that.
What you stated was that enforcers prevent liberties. A hit to the head is a liberty. more so than running a goalie or a spear. And did having 3 enforcers prevent Nystrom from cheapshotting Taylor Fedun? It doesn't actually do anything, thats the thing. Good reffing does something, strict rules and punishment will act as a deterrent, which will curb this behaviour.

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10-02-2011, 12:57 AM
  #217
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The following played very well tonight :

Spacek - Diaz
Gomez - Gionta
Plek
Gorges
Cole - Darche
Price
Paulushaj - Enqvist


That is all.

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Old
10-02-2011, 01:34 AM
  #218
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I love how the captain says he's tired of losing and then goes and scores the first goal.

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10-02-2011, 01:36 AM
  #219
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Hopefully campoli will suffer no post concussion symptoms. The team needs him more than I hoped they would.

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10-02-2011, 02:12 AM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Meanwhile, tonight, our goalie was knocked over twice, Subban was run, Campoli was speared, Kostitsyn had to fend off Downey and a non-fighting skill DMan had to take a pounding.

But you know that.
Meanwhile, somehow, miraculously, inexplicably, our soft little Smurf squad won the game 5-1.

But you know that. Or did you? Sometimes the more obscure stats get lost in the big picture of "did the Habs look tough out there or not?".

Quote:
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How many head shots did Gretzky take while Semenko and and McSorley were around? What would happen if Roy was run while Nilan was on the team. Sat there on the bench?
Gretzky/Semenko, what a relevant comparison in today's game. The game's current best player hasn't played hockey in 10 months. And he plays on a team with enforcers and tough guys! Yet somehow, those enforcers (a) didn't prevent the hits that put Crosby out and (b) didn't seek any retribution against Steckel or Hedman. So what's the conclusion here?

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Old
10-02-2011, 02:17 AM
  #221
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Three pictures I took from Fel's video and that I posted on the main Boards too...


1) 100% Shoulder on Shoulder hit right??


2) Malone "I did not aim at his head" WTF Are you looking at? That guy in white sitting in the stands??


3) Don't think a explanation is needed for this one

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10-02-2011, 02:37 AM
  #222
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They best just take hitting it of the game if every hit is going to be a head shot. Its so easy for someone to just bend over and suddenly make a hit a head shot.

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10-02-2011, 03:20 AM
  #223
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Meanwhile, somehow, miraculously, inexplicably, our soft little Smurf squad won the game 5-1.

But you know that. Or did you? Sometimes the more obscure stats get lost in the big picture of "did the Habs look tough out there or not?".
And you think we'll keep winning by loosing key players?

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10-02-2011, 03:26 AM
  #224
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And you think we'll keep winning by loosing key players?
But, but... Enforcers won't prefer head shots anyway!

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10-02-2011, 03:32 AM
  #225
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I admire Gorges for what he did. He is a warrior.

But Malone slaughtered him in that fight, Gorges played the role of a punching bag.

Which is too bad...because Gorges is about the only one tonight who would jump into to defend his teammates.
Gill defended Subban earlier in the game, Moen would have fought him, same for White, stop crying seriously.

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