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Old
09-25-2011, 03:35 PM
  #26
SLAPSHOT723
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Originally Posted by LAIslanderFan View Post
If Nino makes the team, who will be the odd man out?

Tavares-Moulson-PAP
Nielson-Grabner-Okposo
Ralson-Comeau-Bailey
Reasoner-Martin-Haley

Do we sit Haley and have Nino play 4th line minutes?

Getting a little off topic, where does Strome go next year?

Getting a little more off topic, DeHaan hasn't lived up to expectations thus far (admittedly defensemen take longer to develop and he's still young), should we have selected a defensemen in the first round this year, instead of Stome?

Just some topics to discuss in between exhibition games.
deHaan has been perfectly on track, he hasn't been disappointing at all. Give him time in the AHL this year and he'll be ready to play in the NHL. Strome goes back to juniors, definitely.

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Old
09-27-2011, 11:38 PM
  #27
Balls Mahoney
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Hey, it's been a couple of days and I didn't want to start a new thread and clutter the forum. Just looking for some updates on Nino's status and future with the Isles this season.

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Old
09-29-2011, 07:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
Hey, it's been a couple of days and I didn't want to start a new thread and clutter the forum. Just looking for some updates on Nino's status and future with the Isles this season.

It is so well said !

anyone has an idea ... because last game ... he wasn't in the roster ... the game before with 15 min. 0 +/- and 0 in everything else (stats)

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09-29-2011, 07:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Balls Mahoney View Post
Hey, it's been a couple of days and I didn't want to start a new thread and clutter the forum. Just looking for some updates on Nino's status and future with the Isles this season.
Well Chris Botta seems to believe he is lock to make the team.

Quote:
The Swiss rookie Niederreiter will make the club, so the only open jobs are on Coach Jack Capuano’s fourth line
http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-nytimessports

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Old
09-30-2011, 06:25 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAIslanderFan View Post
If Nino makes the team, who will be the odd man out?

Tavares-Moulson-PAP
Nielson-Grabner-Okposo
Ralson-Comeau-Bailey
Reasoner-Martin-Haley

Do we sit Haley and have Nino play 4th line minutes?

Getting a little off topic, where does Strome go next year?

Getting a little more off topic, DeHaan hasn't lived up to expectations thus far (admittedly defensemen take longer to develop and he's still young), should we have selected a defensemen in the first round this year, instead of Stome?

Just some topics to discuss in between exhibition games.
Wow.

What exacty could DeHaan have done to live up to your "expectations" to this point?

You do know he was in Junior last year right?

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Old
09-30-2011, 07:31 AM
  #31
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I don't think that Nino is suited for first line duty right now, and I'm not sure that he'll ever be suited for first line duty. He's going to be an agitator first, and a scorer second. I understand that we need somebody to go get the puck on the top line. But if that's really the issue, better Okposo there than Nino.

If he's really ready to make the team, why hasn't Comeau been dealt? I really don't understand the point of having all three of Rolston, Comeau, and Niederreiter on the team. I certainly don't understand having all three plus Martin.

That said, it's been time to deal for a while. What team needs secondary scoring?

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
09-30-2011, 08:52 AM
  #32
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Predicting points is impossible for Nino because where is he playing/is he making the team?

The assumption is that he will.

But where does he play?

This set up...

Moulson-Tavares-Niederreiter
Okposo-Nielsen-Grabner
Comeau-Bailey-Parenteau
Martin-Reasoner-Rolston

...is going to yield different numbers then this set-up...
Moulson-Tavares-Parenteau
Okposo-Nielsen-Grabner
Comeau-Bailey-Niederreiter
Martin-Reasoner-Rolston

BTW — I see Rolston being on the 4th unit to start, but being part of the first PP unit so I think he will be fine, and as a 4th line, that is a solid grind unit.

Pandolfo? Im not sure. Does he make the team on a 2-way deal?

Personally, I would rather start Nino on the 3rd unit — and I have two reasons why...

1) I would like to see him eased in with good minutes but not the responsibility of being a top-line producer if things don't go that well at the start of the season.

2) I like the Comeau-Bailey-Niederreiter set-up in theory/on paper. Coeau and Nino are bigger bodies who can bang and who can finish. Both go into the dirty areas. Bailey is a pass first set-up pivot. In theory, he should be able to dish the puck off to his wingers who can and should be able to both create space for Bailey, themselves and score in the tight spots. This is — in theory, or course.

Ultimately, I think Nino may become the top line winger. But this season, at least to start — unless as a third unit he can help give the Isles 3 potent lines — which is very possible if everyone plays to last seasons levels + Bailey can find his game.

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Old
09-30-2011, 12:52 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
I don't think that Nino is suited for first line duty right now, and I'm not sure that he'll ever be suited for first line duty. He's going to be an agitator first, and a scorer second. I understand that we need somebody to go get the puck on the top line. But if that's really the issue, better Okposo there than Nino.

If he's really ready to make the team, why hasn't Comeau been dealt? I really don't understand the point of having all three of Rolston, Comeau, and Niederreiter on the team. I certainly don't understand having all three plus Martin.

That said, it's been time to deal for a while. What team needs secondary scoring?

Cheers,

Dan-o
Why do we deal a young 30 goal scorer coming into his own to make room for another kid? I'm sketchy on the rules. I thought performance trumped projections.

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Old
09-30-2011, 12:59 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Why do we deal a young 30 goal scorer coming into his own to make room for another kid? I'm sketchy on the rules. I thought performance trumped projections.

well done.

On Comeau, I don't think he'll ever score 30 goals, but he should hit 20. I expect Comeau to be a 3rd line player who (HOPEFULLY) can learn consistency (effort, output) and be a valuable piece of this winning team - eventually.

I see better options for the top six, players with more high-end skills, to eventually take over.

But I don't think Comeau should be dealt, not by a long shot, not this year anyway.

We don't have anyone better than Comeau that's knocking on the door. That's why Parenteau's still here.

If it's someone from the organization (and not someone in a UFA or trade, which is kinda obvious at this stage) then it'll be Nino, Strome, KK, Petrov, Nelson to be those players to take those jobs. And not this year (unless Nino gets 9 games and can show he's capable of at least 20)

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Old
09-30-2011, 01:07 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post

well done.

On Comeau, I don't think he'll ever score 30 goals, but he should hit 20. I expect Comeau to be a 3rd line player who (HOPEFULLY) can learn consistency (effort, output) and be a valuable piece of this winning team - eventually.

I see better options for the top six, players with more high-end skills, to eventually take over.

But I don't think Comeau should be dealt, not by a long shot, not this year anyway.

We don't have anyone better than Comeau that's knocking on the door. That's why Parenteau's still here.

If it's someone from the organization (and not someone in a UFA or trade, which is kinda obvious at this stage) then it'll be Nino, Strome, KK, Petrov, Nelson to be those players to take those jobs. And not this year (unless Nino gets 9 games and can show he's capable of at least 20)
Mark me down for 35 goals if he has a better Bailey to work with and Nino or Rolston on his wing. He's the mucking/grinding shooter and he's progressed. If Bailey doesn't do anything this year, he's gonna get 25 goals easily - like last year.

But it is funny how we're throwing out good players because we still just can't wait to see the kids even with the Snow rebuild curing so many of that malaise.

My props to everyone who wants Strome down and Dehaan sent down.....I'm rooting for Nino but just didn't see anything this camp (nothing near what I saw in his 9 game stint).

But then again, I didn't see Comeau play great without Bailey. I saw he did score in bunches down the stretch against the good teams. But he got cold once Bailey vanished and the team went dead under Scott Scrotum. So, in my book, maybe Nino just does not play well with Tavares and deserves another look with a more favorable pivot. Elsewhere on the lineup.

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Old
09-30-2011, 03:40 PM
  #36
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i am swiss, and wich Nino to play in the NHL.

But he spent last year in WHL. if he is not playing in the preparation games before the regular season ... when it would be his firs season in NHL ... i can't picture the coach wanting Nino to play in NHL this year.

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Old
09-30-2011, 04:07 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I think some folks are underestimating just how difficult it is for rookies to put up points in the NHL. Some folks are forecasting similar numbers to what John Tavares put up in his rookie year, and Tavares was much more of an offensive talent coming out of junior than Niederreiter.

To answer the OP, I think something like the following is a bit more realistic, given the combination of Nino's offensive ability, the fact powerforward types take a bit longer to develop, and how hard it is for rookies to put up big numbers.

With Tavares -- 18 to 20 goals, 18 to 20 assists
On the third line -- 10 to 13 goals, 13 to 16 assists
In Portland -- 45 to 50 goals, 30 to 35 assists

As for the Parenteau scoring 50+ points and thus Nino should easily do it too argument, the thing is while Parenteau does have quite a number of flaws, the one thing he's actually polished at is his offensive skills. Nino may be a better all around player than Parenteau, but when it comes to pure offensive talent *at this point in time*, Parenteau is ahead in the development curve.

That's not a knock on Nino or a commentary on his potential, because we're talking about the comparison of a 19 year old kid with a player who is smack dab right in the prime of his career. Parenteau's ceiling is probably what we saw last year, whereas Nino at 19 might be less than that, but Nino in his prime is likely much better than that.
While I agree with you, there is one thing I don't, JT was more offensive then Nino but he had none to play with.Now Nino has two 30 goal scorers to work with. I think Nino gets 25 goals and 30 assists. Top 3 in Calder voting.

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Old
09-30-2011, 08:34 PM
  #38
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seen Brett Connolly yesterday against the habs and he looks real good. I say he outpoints Nino if he makes it by a 2 to 1 margin.

Connolly for those who don't know was drafted after Nino.

Speculation, the Isles were interested in him and I can see why. Very good speed and offensive ability

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Old
09-30-2011, 09:52 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Top Corner View Post
seen Brett Connolly yesterday against the habs and he looks real good. I say he outpoints Nino if he makes it by a 2 to 1 margin.

Connolly for those who don't know was drafted after Nino.

Speculation, the Isles were interested in him and I can see why. Very good speed and offensive ability
I'd have liked to see the team take Fowler over both of them. And if they had been sticking to a forward, I'd have liked to see the Isles take Granlund over both of them.

This said, no matter if Connolly works out for Tampa or not, when a kid has his hip problems at that age, you don't take him over comparably talented teenagers that early in the draft. You just don't take that risk. And lets face it, he hadn't done jack to show he was going to necessarily be better than Johansen, Niederreiter, Granlund or Skinner.

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Old
10-01-2011, 01:33 AM
  #40
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While I agree with you, there is one thing I don't, JT was more offensive then Nino but he had none to play with.Now Nino has two 30 goal scorers to work with. I think Nino gets 25 goals and 30 assists. Top 3 in Calder voting.
That's only assuming Nino earns a spot on the first line. Stamkos had MUCH more to work with on the Lightning than Nino does now, and still only put up 46 points.

Hell Jagr had one of the best offensive forces in NHL history on his team, and he put up 57 points his rookie year.

It's not easy for rookies to put up points in the NHL. It's a LOT different than the AHL-let alone juniors. Remember how Tambellini used to tear up the AHL? He looked like a fish out of water in the 9 games last year in the NHL. Doesn't mean he wont be better-but it doesn't mean we should expect him to put in a top-3 Calder performance either.




And I don't get everyone citing his play in juniors as being proof he'll put up a large amount of points for a rookie (40/50+ points is a lot for a rookie). We should be realistic about his performance in juniors. Here's how his offensive numbers stacked up:

-4th in points on his team (1st in goals)
-43rd in the WHL in points
12th in the WHL in goals

To put that into perspective the people who were at these positions in the WHL for the 09/10 season were:

-4th in points on Portland: Nino Niederreiter (also 1st in goals)
-12th in the WHL in goals: Aaron Lewadniuk (didn't do so hot in the ECHL last year)
-43rd in points in the WHL: Brandon McMillan (21 points with the Ducks last year)

To blunt: I don't see anything he's done in juniors that will translate to a top-3 Calder finish.


Last edited by ScaredStreit: 10-01-2011 at 02:05 AM.
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Old
10-01-2011, 02:23 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
That's only assuming Nino earns a spot on the first line. Stamkos had MUCH more to work with on the Lightning than Nino does now, and still only put up 46 points.

Hell Jagr had one of the best offensive forces in NHL history on his team, and he put up 57 points his rookie year.

It's not easy for rookies to put up points in the NHL. It's a LOT different than the AHL-let alone juniors. Remember how Tambellini used to tear up the AHL? He looked like a fish out of water in the 9 games last year in the NHL. Doesn't mean he wont be better-but it doesn't mean we should expect him to put in a top-3 Calder performance either.




And I don't get everyone citing his play in juniors as being proof he'll put up a large amount of points for a rookie (40/50+ points is a lot for a rookie). We should be realistic about his performance in juniors. Here's how his offensive numbers stacked up:

-4th in points on his team (1st in goals)
-43rd in the WHL in points
12th in the WHL in goals

To put that into perspective the people who were at these positions in the WHL for the 09/10 season were:

-4th in points on Portland: Nino Niederreiter (also 1st in goals)
-12th in the WHL in goals: Aaron Lewadniuk (didn't do so hot in the ECHL last year)
-43rd in points in the WHL: Brandon McMillan (21 points with the Ducks last year)

To blunt: I don't see anything he's done in juniors that will translate to a top-3 Calder finish.
The 4 guys in front of Nino played between 8 and 15 more games then him.

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Old
10-01-2011, 11:45 AM
  #42
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While I agree with you, there is one thing I don't, JT was more offensive then Nino but he had none to play with.Now Nino has two 30 goal scorers to work with. I think Nino gets 25 goals and 30 assists. Top 3 in Calder voting.
As Scared Streit pointed out, Stamkos only scored 23 goals, 46 points in his rookie year, despite having guys like Stamkos and Lecavalier on his team. And Stamkos was MUCH more productive in junior than Niederreiter was.

Tavares had Okposo and a 30-goal Moulson on his wings as a rookie, don't forget. So it's not like he had scrubs to play on his line. Yet he only scored 54 points. And like Stamkos, Tavares was MUCH more of an offensive force in junior than Niederreiter.

Not to mention, Nino's just not projected to have the high end offense of guys like Stamkos, Hall, Tavares, etc. So I think it's a bit of a stretch to think -- regardless of who his linemates may be -- that he'll be able to put up similar/better numbers than those three as rookies.

Stamkos 46 points
Hall - 42 points (prorated to about 52 or 53 if he played all 82 games)
Tavares - 54 points

Yet you think Niederreiter has the offensive ability to score more than all three of them as a rookie? I just think that's being unrealistic, especially when you consider the fact Nino doesn't project to be an elite point producer.


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Originally Posted by LAIslanderFan View Post
The 4 guys in front of Nino played between 8 and 15 more games then him.
You're kind of missing the overall point of what the person you quoted was getting at -- that Niederreiter's junior numbers weren't that out of the ordinary, but even if they'd played the same number of games Nino would have still finished behind 2 of those 3 guys. The only guy he had a better PPG pace than was Ty Rattie.

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Old
10-01-2011, 01:53 PM
  #43
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As Scared Streit pointed out, Stamkos only scored 23 goals, 46 points in his rookie year, despite having guys like Stamkos and Lecavalier on his team. And Stamkos was MUCH more productive in junior than Niederreiter was.

Tavares had Okposo and a 30-goal Moulson on his wings as a rookie, don't forget. So it's not like he had scrubs to play on his line. Yet he only scored 54 points. And like Stamkos, Tavares was MUCH more of an offensive force in junior than Niederreiter.

Not to mention, Nino's just not projected to have the high end offense of guys like Stamkos, Hall, Tavares, etc. So I think it's a bit of a stretch to think -- regardless of who his linemates may be -- that he'll be able to put up similar/better numbers than those three as rookies.

Stamkos 46 points
Hall - 42 points (prorated to about 52 or 53 if he played all 82 games)
Tavares - 54 points

Yet you think Niederreiter has the offensive ability to score more than all three of them as a rookie? I just think that's being unrealistic, especially when you consider the fact Nino doesn't project to be an elite point producer.




You're kind of missing the overall point of what the person you quoted was getting at -- that Niederreiter's junior numbers weren't that out of the ordinary, but even if they'd played the same number of games Nino would have still finished behind 2 of those 3 guys. The only guy he had a better PPG pace than was Ty Rattie.
To quote Trottier:

But Nino's Nuuuuuuu. He'll be great.

On a serious note: I wish fans would appreciate what I believe he will be when he's done being groomed and grows into adulthood on ice: Duane Sutter. He'll score more, but play like sandpaper, make some really big hits and all along play a smart game. Such a player is essential, even if he's never on line 1.

Those guys on line 3&4 are what win Cups IMHO. Lines 1&2 get you there and keep you there, but the difference makers are the ones who keep the team rolling. (and flat out shut the other teams down)

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10-02-2011, 12:22 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Stamkos 46 points
Hall - 42 points (prorated to about 52 or 53 if he played all 82 games)
Tavares - 54 points

Yet you think Niederreiter has the offensive ability to score more than all three of them as a rookie? I just think that's being unrealistic, especially when you consider the fact Nino doesn't project to be an elite point producer.
hall and tavares played on very ****** teams their rookie seasons and didnt have the support that they needed, stamkos wasnt given enough ice time and when he was given the time at the end of the season he dominated

nino is coming into the league and being put on a great first line on a team that will probably have a 2 30+ goal scorers on his line and a 30+ goal scorer and 3 other 20+ goal scorers on the 2nd and third lines, so there wont be alot of pressure on him like tavares and hall their rookie seasons, almost like the situations that couture came into last season, with tons of scoring on his team but their was a spot open and he showed he deserved it

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10-02-2011, 12:39 PM
  #45
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seen Brett Connolly yesterday against the habs and he looks real good. I say he outpoints Nino if he makes it by a 2 to 1 margin.

Connolly for those who don't know was drafted after Nino.

Speculation, the Isles were interested in him and I can see why. Very good speed and offensive ability
I remember not wanting Connolly. His injury really scared me off at the time and Nino was a much safer pick.

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10-02-2011, 02:42 PM
  #46
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Predicting points is impossible for Nino because where is he playing/is he making the team?

The assumption is that he will.

But where does he play?

This set up...

Moulson-Tavares-Niederreiter
Okposo-Nielsen-Grabner
Comeau-Bailey-Parenteau
Martin-Reasoner-Rolston

...is going to yield different numbers then this set-up...
Moulson-Tavares-Parenteau
Okposo-Nielsen-Grabner
Comeau-Bailey-Niederreiter
Martin-Reasoner-Rolston

BTW — I see Rolston being on the 4th unit to start, but being part of the first PP unit so I think he will be fine, and as a 4th line, that is a solid grind unit.

Pandolfo? Im not sure. Does he make the team on a 2-way deal?

Personally, I would rather start Nino on the 3rd unit — and I have two reasons why...

1) I would like to see him eased in with good minutes but not the responsibility of being a top-line producer if things don't go that well at the start of the season.

2) I like the Comeau-Bailey-Niederreiter set-up in theory/on paper. Coeau and Nino are bigger bodies who can bang and who can finish. Both go into the dirty areas. Bailey is a pass first set-up pivot. In theory, he should be able to dish the puck off to his wingers who can and should be able to both create space for Bailey, themselves and score in the tight spots. This is — in theory, or course.

Ultimately, I think Nino may become the top line winger. But this season, at least to start — unless as a third unit he can help give the Isles 3 potent lines — which is very possible if everyone plays to last seasons levels + Bailey can find his game.
I like your option 2 better for reasons stated above, and if that line can get going and have some chemistry, this team would be crazy good down the line with scoring. But like you said, it looks good on paper...

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10-02-2011, 03:35 PM
  #47
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hall and tavares played on very ****** teams their rookie seasons and didnt have the support that they needed, stamkos wasnt given enough ice time and when he was given the time at the end of the season he dominated

nino is coming into the league and being put on a great first line on a team that will probably have a 2 30+ goal scorers on his line and a 30+ goal scorer and 3 other 20+ goal scorers on the 2nd and third lines, so there wont be alot of pressure on him like tavares and hall their rookie seasons, almost like the situations that couture came into last season, with tons of scoring on his team but their was a spot open and he showed he deserved it
You're completely overlooking the offensive potential part of the individual players. Just having talented linemates does not mean a player will produce as much as another player with lesser linemates.

Chris Kunitz has Sidney Crosby as a linemate, but would you argue Kunitz will outscore Tavares this season because Kunitz plays beside the best player in the world, while Tavares plays with Moulson/Parenteau? No, because regardless of who he plays with, Kunitz simply doesn't have Tavares' offensive ability.

That's the situation with Nino. Sure he may have better linemates than who Tavares, Hall, or Stamkos had coming in. But he simply doesn't have their elite offensive ability.

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10-02-2011, 05:07 PM
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seafoam
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IF he stays up an IF he's healthy and IF he's on the top line expect 30-40 points. Sure he can have a 50 point season but I doubt it.

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