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PGT: 5-1 We are doomed! Let's tank!!

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Old
10-02-2011, 12:34 PM
  #276
Andy
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I'd rather have Laraque at 1.5 giving our younger and smaller players a sense of security than Dandenault at 1.7 doing abosolutley nothing. Here's what you said then and it's what I've been saying now. We both agree GL didn't play the role that we had hoped for, but once again you decided with management in something that you are vehemently against now. Funny thing is I didn't even know if you posted in there, but found exactly what I expected.

My reason for toughness is exactly how you just explained it, security and confidence, not to prevent injuries. I still believe someone who is willing to play that role would be beneficial, GL was unwilling to do what we needed, not all are like him.
Then how do you prevent the cheapshots. This is where the problem lies. So we get the tough guys and then what? That's the problem. Do we all feel better because we had a guy who was able to fight after the fact. It just seems useless. Having Moen and White is sufficient enough. I don't think we need to go chasing tough guys around the league for the sake of because what more will they bring than what we already have...who do you replace them with. The only guys I would replace if they are significant replacement for what we already have, like when I didn't mind O'brien in the summer. But getting worse players to replace better ones for the sake of fighting is useless.

All in all the security feeling is much different from the protective and prevenative one which I don't agree happens because have many instances where it doesn.t

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10-02-2011, 12:40 PM
  #277
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Then how do you prevent the cheapshots. This is where the problem lies. So we get the tough guys and then what? That's the problem. Do we all feel better because we had a guy who was able to fight after the fact. It just seems useless. Having Moen and White is sufficient enough. I don't think we need to go chasing tough guys around the league for the sake of.
I'm not asking for 14 of them, a few to give our skilled guys the freedom and security they need. Keeping them away from mucking it up with other players **** heads. I do believe there is a little intimidation associated with having them as well, but not to the level seems to think.

It gives us another dimension at our disposal, and if the role was played as it should be, can be beneficial towards our more skilled guys. The difference between a pretty good 4th liner and a not particular good 4th liner who can fight is not significant. I would prefer the added dimension. Tom Pyatt's of the league are redundant and useless, he'll be out of the league entirely in the not too distant future.

Our team hasn't really been a victim of a higher number of head shots, it's the dirty little plays, shots in the back, running price, running pk that need to be dealt with. Eliminating cheap shots of these kind would go along way by having someone not only willing to do it but capable of doing it. Guys like AK being grabbed by bullies is something I don't like and don't think a respectable hockey team should allow, even if it doesn't help us win in the long run, we need to put our foot down and stop the bullying, the best way to do that is to stand up to them.

A large reason why we don't suffer the head shot type hits is because we play a sound positional, puck possession game and don't engage in violent activities as much as some other teams. I'm fine with that and prefer it, but the bullying has to be stopped. If you think hamr, spacek, pyatt ect getting pummeled for no reason is ok, I don't know what to say, these players should be protected and supported by others on this team. Of course it has an affect getting beat up like they did.


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10-02-2011, 12:41 PM
  #278
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It's not because 99% of the people eat fast food that its necessarily good to eat some, being a sheep does not make you do the best decisions since sheep would follow each other to a slaughterhouse

plus, despite whatever the pro fighting crap you and your friends are spewing since the beginning of the off-season, we every time come back with even more logical and factual EVIDENCE that fighting is useless and yet you spin those half truth and lies and circular logic and flaunt as if we did not say a thing
How the hell do you even want that evidence you're looking for? "oh look, watch as Niel in the 2nd period is playing hockey and wont intimidate while our goon is on the bench...."

do you have any idea how retarded that is?

2 other things...

1) if 99% of people tell you thar jumping off the bridge is a bad but you don't, shouldn't that mean something? (that's just to counter your ridiculous statement atthe beginning o your post)

And 2) why am I the sheep? You're the one that's pro management at all costs, that gives excuses for everything that happens. It's the complete opposite, you're the sheep! I'm the one saying "hey,we're not perfect, we have a need on this team, let's go get it."

If you think I'm going to let some pacifists call me delusional when u saw more the once our star players going back to the bench completely discouraged with their heads between their tales because they had to defend themselves... This board is going to be a lot of fun in the next months..

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10-02-2011, 12:42 PM
  #279
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Better game by Habs.. Nice to see them pot a few

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10-02-2011, 12:42 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I'd rather have Laraque at 1.5 giving our younger and smaller players a sense of security than Dandenault at 1.7 doing abosolutley nothing. Here's what you said then and it's what I've been saying now. We both agree GL didn't play the role that we had hoped for, but once again you decided with management in something that you are vehemently against now. Funny thing is I didn't even know if you posted in there, but found exactly what I expected.

My reason for toughness is exactly how you just explained it, security and confidence, not to prevent injuries. I still believe someone who is willing to play that role would be beneficial, GL was unwilling to do what we needed, not all are like him.
I agree. Laraque was absolutely useless. If one of our players was cheapshotted, Laraque would just invite the guy to fight after a whistle and the guy would refuse because he knows he'd get his ass kicked by BGL. Laraque was just too soft in that department.

That's all he'd do: ask for a fight and if denied, he'd just go on about his own business.

I'm gonna throw in some names who would really defend our teammates the way everyone would want to: Paul Mara (oh, the guy we could've had for about 300k more instead of the scrub Woywitka - he did an work awesome in that department, remember his fight against Kaleta and others), Steve MacIntyre (the guy, even one of the strongest in the league at this point, wouldn't accept having one his teammates cheapshotted like that), Darcy Hordichuk (could play around 20 games against the toughest opposition - great team guy), Zenon Konopka (great face-off guy, would be better than Engqvist at this point, who's known to protect his buddies), Brandon Prust (guy who steps up and can play good hockey), just to name a few.

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10-02-2011, 12:45 PM
  #281
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I agree. Laraque was absolutely useless. If one of our players was cheapshotted, Laraque would just invite the guy to fight after a whistle and the guy would refuse because he knows he'd get his ass kicked by BGL. Laraque was just too soft in that department.

That's all he'd do: ask for a fight and if denied, he'd just go on about his own business.

I'm gonna throw in some names who would really defend our teammates the way everyone would want to: Paul Mara (oh, the guy we could've had for about 300k more instead of the scrum Woywitka - he did an awesome in that department, remember his fight against Kaleta and others), Steve MacIntyre (the guy, even one of the strongest in the league at this point, wouldn't accept having one his teammates cheapshotted like that), Darcy Hordichuk (could play around 20 games against the toughest opposition - great team guy), Zenon Konopka (great face-off guy, would be better than Engqvist at this point, who's known to protect his buddies), Brandon Prust (guy who steps up and can play good hockey), just to name a few.
I'd certainly would have prefer Mara over Woywitka. They signed Woywitka because he accepted a two-way contract.

Eric Godard was on waiver few days ago... But they passed on him.

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10-02-2011, 12:52 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
How the hell do you even want that evidence you're looking for? "oh look, watch as Niel in the 2nd period is playing hockey and wont intimidate while our goon is on the bench...."

do you have any idea how retarded that is?
Classic argument from ignorance. Of course it's retarded, but you clearly lack imagination. How would YOU check the statistical effect of intimidation on gameplay?

If you spend 30 seconds on a google search, you'll find plenty of papers covering the topic. You could check what their methodology was.

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10-02-2011, 12:53 PM
  #283
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I'd certainly would have prefer Mara over Woywitka. They signed Woywitka because he accepted a two-way contract.

Eric Godard was on waiver few days ago... But they passed on him.
Godard is terrible he isn't an NHL player.

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10-02-2011, 12:55 PM
  #284
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Godard is terrible he isn't an NHL player.
On a 4th line for 20 -25 games, he would not be that bad.

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10-02-2011, 01:01 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Woodson Hoggs View Post
I agree. Laraque was absolutely useless. If one of our players was cheapshotted, Laraque would just invite the guy to fight after a whistle and the guy would refuse because he knows he'd get his ass kicked by BGL. Laraque was just too soft in that department.

That's all he'd do: ask for a fight and if denied, he'd just go on about his own business.

I'm gonna throw in some names who would really defend our teammates the way everyone would want to: Paul Mara (oh, the guy we could've had for about 300k more instead of the scrub Woywitka - he did an work awesome in that department, remember his fight against Kaleta and others), Steve MacIntyre (the guy, even one of the strongest in the league at this point, wouldn't accept having one his teammates cheapshotted like that), Darcy Hordichuk (could play around 20 games against the toughest opposition - great team guy), Zenon Konopka (great face-off guy, would be better than Engqvist at this point, who's known to protect his buddies), Brandon Prust (guy who steps up and can play good hockey), just to name a few.
Strange that you have that criticism about Laraque but want Mcintyre who (aside from one example of actual enforcing) Oilers fans say exactly the same about.

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10-02-2011, 01:02 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Classic argument from ignorance. Of course it's retarded, but you clearly lack imagination. How would YOU check the statistical effect of intimidation on gameplay?

If you spend 30 seconds on a google search, you'll find plenty of papers covering the topic. You could check what their methodology was.
Why would you need an argument for that? its obvious fear and violence helps people change and fix their behavior effectively, and avoid further fear (bullying of small players) and violence

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10-02-2011, 01:13 PM
  #287
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If a Malone comes to you and wants to fight, you take a punch and laugh in his face with your gloves still on. He's out for 7 mins. You score twice on the PP. Boom.

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10-02-2011, 01:15 PM
  #288
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They best just take hitting it of the game if every hit is going to be a head shot. Its so easy for someone to just bend over and suddenly make a hit a head shot.
Sure, and they will do so frequently because the owners will give them very lucrative contracts after they retire from concussion complications. Just for getting an oppnent a suspension of a handful of games. REALLY worth it.

Oh, and

Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
On a 4th line for 20 -25 games, he would not be that bad.
Can't deter much for the other 60 games, though.

I can imagine the subsequent discussion by the goon fans.

"Maybe we could play him a bit more, say 50, no 60, no 78 games.

And maybe he could stop acting like a *****cat and waiting for others to hit our guys and go be pro-active, rough up the other team a bit.

I mean if John Ferguson could do it and be part of 5 Stanley Cup championship teams, why not a guy like Godard? He has so much more value than a guy like Tom Pyatt, for instance."


Last edited by Mike8: 10-02-2011 at 01:57 PM. Reason: merge
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10-02-2011, 01:21 PM
  #289
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If a Malone comes to you and wants to fight, you take a punch and laugh in his face with your gloves still on. He's out for 7 mins. You score twice on the PP. Boom.
That doesn't happen anymore. Look at Downie and AK last night. AK never dropped the gloves but Downie did, and they both got 2 mins each for roughing.

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10-02-2011, 01:23 PM
  #290
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If a Malone comes to you and wants to fight, you take a punch and laugh in his face with your gloves still on. He's out for 7 mins. You score twice on the PP. Boom.
I disagree, but it's not even part of the discussion. What do you when he runs the goaliie and the ref doesn't call it? Say go ahead, the ref will get you next time. Or what do you do when he is slashing a player in the face on the ground with his stick if the ref does nothing, say go ahead, the ref will get you next time? What about when he attacks our Star dman for a clean hit? I don't mind gill's reaction there, but it's unlikely to make Malone think twice, or how about when Downie drops the gloves with AK and procedes to hit him for no other reason than he could?

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10-02-2011, 01:23 PM
  #291
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That doesn't happen anymore. Look at Downie and AK last night. AK never dropped the gloves but Downie did, and they both got 2 mins each for roughing.
LOL, you say it like that is a bad thing (and it is!), but remember that our pro-goon squad that wants to get rid of the instigator rule would bring us many more instances of that crap.

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10-02-2011, 01:24 PM
  #292
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LOL, you say it like that is a bad thing (and it is!), but remember that our pro-goon squad that wants to get rid of the instigator rule would bring us many more instances of that crap.
Wrong.

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10-02-2011, 01:25 PM
  #293
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Can't deter much for the other 60 games, though.

I can imagine the subsequent discussion by the goon fans.

"Maybe we could play him a bit more, say 50, no 60, no 78 games.

And maybe he could stop acting like a *****cat and waiting for others to hit our guys and go be pro-active, rough up the other team a bit.

I mean if John Ferguson could do it and be part of 5 Stanley Cup championship teams, why not a guy like Godard? He has so much more value than a guy like Tom Pyatt, for instance."
The thing is John Ferguson was a good hockey player. Godard is just a goon with no other skill Fergy could play the game and he scored goals to prove it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I disagree, but it's not even part of the discussion. What do you when he runs the goaliie and the ref doesn't call it? Say go ahead, the ref will get you next time. Or what do you do when he is slashing a player in the face on the ground with his stick if the ref does nothing, say go ahead, the ref will get you next time? What about when he attacks our Star dman for a clean hit? I don't mind gill's reaction there, but it's unlikely to make Malone think twice, or how about when Downie drops the gloves with AK and procedes to hit him for no other reason than he could?
The refs were terrible on those plays, you can see Malone escalating more and more because they did not penalize him for anything.


Last edited by Mike8: 10-02-2011 at 01:56 PM. Reason: merge
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10-02-2011, 01:35 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I disagree, but it's not even part of the discussion. What do you when he runs the goaliie and the ref doesn't call it? Say go ahead, the ref will get you next time. Or what do you do when he is slashing a player in the face on the ground with his stick if the ref does nothing, say go ahead, the ref will get you next time? What about when he attacks our Star dman for a clean hit? I don't mind gill's reaction there, but it's unlikely to make Malone think twice, or how about when Downie drops the gloves with AK and procedes to hit him for no other reason than he could?
Yeah you're right, when a guy cuts through the line at Wal-Mart, pop a cap in his arse. It's just the right thing to do. You gotta send a message to the others so they don't cut in front of you.

When I was young, a bully kept on eating my lunch, so I ate him. Worked marvels in my revenge-thirsty fantasy world, just like having a tough guy pound Malone does in yours.

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10-02-2011, 01:46 PM
  #295
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LOL, you say it like that is a bad thing (and it is!), but remember that our pro-goon squad that wants to get rid of the instigator rule would bring us many more instances of that crap.
I don't believe I have any connotation in my sentence. I just remember in NHL whatever, if you were in a fight and took a massive beating, the guy who beat you up had a major and you only had a minor.

I think it's silly for one guy to be penalized more then the other, but depending on what happens. If a guy makes a clean hit and is jump and he turtles, well that would be an instance where a 5 min major should be assessed to the guy who dropped the gloves and nothing to the guy who got jumped. But it's all subjective.

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10-02-2011, 01:47 PM
  #296
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Yeah you're right, when a guy cuts through the line at Wal-Mart, pop a cap in his arse. It's just the right thing to do. You gotta send a message to the others so they don't cut in front of you.

When I was young, a bully kept on eating my lunch, so I ate him. Worked marvels in my revenge-thirsty fantasy world, just like having a tough guy pound Malone does in yours.
Another failed attempt of trying to be funny. You should hook up with koseegin and work on your analogies, because this one might be worse than his.

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10-02-2011, 01:50 PM
  #297
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Yeah you're right, when a guy cuts through the line at Wal-Mart, pop a cap in his arse. It's just the right thing to do. You gotta send a message to the others so they don't cut in front of you.

When I was young, a bully kept on eating my lunch, so I ate him. Worked marvels in my revenge-thirsty fantasy world, just like having a tough guy pound Malone does in yours.
Sometimes when you write something, wait 5 mins, read it and see if you still think it was as good as when you wrote it. Pretty silly analogy. Protect your teammates and protecting the line in wal-mart... Do you really see a comparison?

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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Another failed attempt of trying to be funny. You should hook up with koseegin and work on your analogies, because this one might be worse than his.
We're all guilty of bad analogies here and there! But I guess some more then others!

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10-02-2011, 01:53 PM
  #298
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Did you watch the game last night? There's about a dozen in there.
I didn't watch it closely. I mean more during a game, if you ever take part in a GDT.

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10-02-2011, 01:54 PM
  #299
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Another failed attempt of trying to be funny. You should hook up with koseegin and work on your analogies, because this one might be worse than his.
Sorry bro I was too caught up in your comparison of enforcers to seatbelts and traffic lights. Your terrible analogy inspired mine

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10-02-2011, 01:59 PM
  #300
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There is no way to prevent losing key players to cheapshots. This is the entire point of my argument.

It's like that saying "all the laws in the world aren't going to stop one man with a gun". You can load up your team with 15 enforcers if you want, they're not going to stop that one guy on the other team from making one bad decision, like Malone last night.
And here is the entire point to my argument.

Let's just say that you are working in a cubicle at an office with 11 other co-workers. You are a good worker and get paid well for what you do. And you are also 5 foot 10 and weigh 175 pounds.

When it comes time for you to get on the computer to do your report, Jake, the 6 foot 5, 240 pound co-worker comes up to you and slaps you in the face. Being the good worker that you are, you ignore it and continue to try to do your job.

An hour later, Jake slaps you again. It happens all day until you go home.

Day after day, Jake slaps you. None of the co-workers do anything about it since they are small also. The boss doesnt care because Jake is very productive. And you cant quit because you signed a 2 year contract to work there.

What do you do? Continue to take it, even though it affects your productivity? Or do you recruit your friend Buck who is bigger than Jake?

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