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Old
10-02-2011, 08:33 PM
  #326
Holden Caulfield
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Other people are allowed to form their own opinions. I have watched every minute of every game this year so far, and have watched Jones play before as well. He was a good PKer for TB last year, and showed me a lot, especially in the last 2 preseason games.

You might want to have another look at Postma's goals. Sure he got the puck through, and again, I am a fan of him, but I see the value in Jones and stick by my comments.

Just because you hate the guy doesn't mean we all have to accept what is rapidly becoming a meme here.
Where did I say people are not allowed to form their own opinions? I even said, and I quote" I guess people will have to find out on their own". I have watched every game this year so far as well, Jones has been there not doing much, which I'll admit is an improvement, but not done anything to suggest he has gotten much better. Did make a couple of clearing on the PK, but also got outmuscled a few times. Overall a meh.

I did look at Postma goals, he has a good shot and knows when to shoot. Disagree with that? He is a talented offensive defenseman who I felt earned a chance over some guys with zero upside.

Wpgsilver, I HAVE watched Jones play extensively. Watched 40 something games in LA, quite a few more in Philly although I admit I only saw him sparely last season (10 games or so regular season plus all playoffs). I am not merely repeating things as a meme, I have watched this guy play and I stand by my comments. He plays any type of minutes other than as an emergency spare, and we are in trouble. And I do not see the value in a guy like that, when we already have capable emergency spares in Festerling and Meech and personnally I'd have no problem with Oduya as a #7, which is what should have happened, IMO.

I am cheering for him since he is wearing a Jets jersey like everybody else, but having watched him play almost 100 games over the past few years I do not see him magically improving now at age 30.


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10-02-2011, 09:10 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Where did I say people are not allowed to form their own opinions? I even said, and I quote" I guess people will have to find out on their own". I have watched every game this year so far as well, Jones has been there not doing much, which I'll admit is an improvement, but not done anything to suggest he has gotten much better. Did make a couple of clearing on the PK, but also got outmuscled a few times. Overall a meh.

I did look at Postma goals, he has a good shot and knows when to shoot. Disagree with that? He is a talented offensive defenseman who I felt earned a chance over some guys with zero upside.

Wpgsilver, I HAVE watched Jones play extensively. Watched 40 something games in LA, quite a few more in Philly although I admit I only saw him sparely last season (10 games or so regular season plus all playoffs). I am not merely repeating things as a meme, I have watched this guy play and I stand by my comments. He plays any type of minutes other than as an emergency spare, and we are in trouble. And I do not see the value in a guy like that, when we already have capable emergency spares in Festerling and Meech and personnally I'd have no problem with Oduya as a #7, which is what should have happened, IMO.

I am cheering for him since he is wearing a Jets jersey like everybody else, but having watched him play almost 100 games over the past few years I do not see him magically improving now at age 30.
I never singled you out and said you didn't watch him. In fact I went out of my way to say that MOST haven't seen him play, but some have (or something to that affect) because we in the past have discussed Jones, and you have an informed opinion. However, you are in the minority I believe. I maintain that many people (not you) bash Randy Jones because its become a popular and easy thing to do, and in many cases is totally irrelevant to how he plays.

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10-02-2011, 09:42 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
I never singled you out and said you didn't watch him. In fact I went out of my way to say that MOST haven't seen him play, but some have (or something to that affect) because we in the past have discussed Jones, and you have an informed opinion. However, you are in the minority I believe. I maintain that many people (not you) bash Randy Jones because its become a popular and easy thing to do, and in many cases is totally irrelevant to how he plays.
Fair enough, and I do tend to agree with you. I won't comment much more about this at this time, but I got the feeling that by mid-season many will be saying the same thing I am about Jones. I hope not, but I think so.

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10-02-2011, 09:45 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Where did I say people are not allowed to form their own opinions?
When you respond to one of my posts being positive about Jones with this, it ruffles my feathers a bit:

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I don't know how many times I need to say it, I guess people will have to learn on their own but Jones is ****ing useless. He turns the puck over more than anybody I have ever seen, and at the most inopportune moments in games.
What that says to me is "I don't care what you think or have seen about the player, I know better"

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10-02-2011, 10:24 PM
  #330
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Why not?
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Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
His best point totals on the power play were from 07-08 when he had 1ppg 11ppa in 71 games. Other than that he's been pretty quiet with the man advantage.

Either way I don't see him ever been used on the PP anyways.

It'll most likely be a point sharing of:

1: Enstrom-Buff
2. Bogo-Hainsey/Oduya
This. ^^^

And to add to that, Enstrom is one of the best PPQB's in the league.

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10-03-2011, 01:05 AM
  #331
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This. ^^^

And to add to that, Enstrom is one of the best PPQB's in the league.
LOL No doubt Enstrom is the best, but he's not so good he can take 4 spots.

Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, and?

Jones played lots of PP in junior, and has had modest success 3 years in the NHL. Hainsey and Oduya will most likely see spot duty there too, but there is nothing to say Jones won't see some PP action.

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10-03-2011, 08:37 AM
  #332
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I agree with Holden. Jones should be our 7th D man at best. The fact that there is even a discussion about using him on the powerplay is downright scary.

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10-03-2011, 08:53 AM
  #333
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I agree with Holden. Jones should be our 7th D man at best. The fact that there is even a discussion about using him on the powerplay is downright scary.
He broke in as an offensive guy with the Flyers, but has had to change his game to stick as a bottom pairing guy. I was one of Jones' biggest detractors because of how much Kings fans despised him, but he earned a spot with his play on Friday. He gives us a physical, stay-at-home edge that Postma doesn't. We've got puck movers in Enstrom, Buff, Bogo and Oduya. Hainsey and Stuart are defensive stalwarts. But we need a stay-at-home type as our 7th man, and Jones looks to be the best option at this point. Why sit Postma in the press box when he could be playing meaningful minutes in the AHL?

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10-03-2011, 08:56 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
LOL No doubt Enstrom is the best, but he's not so good he can take 4 spots.

Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, and?

Jones played lots of PP in junior, and has had modest success 3 years in the NHL. Hainsey and Oduya will most likely see spot duty there too, but there is nothing to say Jones won't see some PP action.
What about putting a forward back there?

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10-03-2011, 08:59 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by wpgyotes View Post
He broke in as an offensive guy with the Flyers, but has had to change his game to stick as a bottom pairing guy. I was one of Jones' biggest detractors because of how much Kings fans despised him, but he earned a spot with his play on Friday. He gives us a physical, stay-at-home edge that Postma doesn't. We've got puck movers in Enstrom, Buff, Bogo and Oduya. Hainsey and Stuart are defensive stalwarts. But we need a stay-at-home type as our 7th man, and Jones looks to be the best option at this point. Why sit Postma in the press box when he could be playing meaningful minutes in the AHL?
That's solely the reason I support Jones being here over Paul. Postma is still young and will one day be on the roster, but he may as well continue getting solid minutes and tutelage under a strong support staff.

Obviously injuries happen and I'm sure we'll see Jones in the lineup sooner or later, but I doubt it'll be much.

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10-03-2011, 09:25 AM
  #336
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I didn't know where else to discuss this... this thread seemed the most appropriate. Did anyone else see/hear Claude Noel's trainwreck of a post conference after the Nashville game? It sounded like a guy who clearly is in over his head. I hope I'm wrong, but the way he analyzed (or non-analyzed) some of the player's efforts, and tried to justify putting Bogo on forward, wreaked of a man who doesn't have much of a clue. Maybe he's just nervous in front of the cameras, but man...

It sounded like he wouldn't even have a say in the player personnel moves to cut down to 23?? "Not a hard decision for me, but for our organization, scouts etc" Is he just a Yes Man? Maybe TNSE, Zinger/Chevy wanted a guy who would tow the party line, and that's justified, but I'd MUCH prefer a guy who demands respect from his players and can give them a Tortorella-like tongue lashing when needed. We need a guy who can rein in all the freelancing these young, talented guys do, and get them playing a system that wins games. Is Noel a player's coach all the way? Can he get everyone to buy in?

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10-03-2011, 09:28 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by wpgyotes View Post
He broke in as an offensive guy with the Flyers, but has had to change his game to stick as a bottom pairing guy. I was one of Jones' biggest detractors because of how much Kings fans despised him, but he earned a spot with his play on Friday. He gives us a physical, stay-at-home edge that Postma doesn't. We've got puck movers in Enstrom, Buff, Bogo and Oduya. Hainsey and Stuart are defensive stalwarts. But we need a stay-at-home type as our 7th man, and Jones looks to be the best option at this point. Why sit Postma in the press box when he could be playing meaningful minutes in the AHL?
You are assuming that I would like to get rid of Jones for Postma. I also agree that we need a more physical stay at home D man for the 7th role. Looking at just this past training camp and exhibition games, I think a guy like Festerling outplayed Jones. Heck, I would rather have Kulda back there than Jones.

I was at the Friday game and Jones did not impress me at all.

I hope he proves me wrong.

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10-03-2011, 09:29 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
LOL No doubt Enstrom is the best, but he's not so good he can take 4 spots.

Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, and?

Jones played lots of PP in junior, and has had modest success 3 years in the NHL. Hainsey and Oduya will most likely see spot duty there too, but there is nothing to say Jones won't see some PP action.
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What about putting a forward back there?
I agree. I would much rather see a forward back at the point if it came to that then Jones.

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10-03-2011, 11:01 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by wpgyotes View Post
I didn't know where else to discuss this... this thread seemed the most appropriate. Did anyone else see/hear Claude Noel's trainwreck of a post conference after the Nashville game? It sounded like a guy who clearly is in over his head. I hope I'm wrong, but the way he analyzed (or non-analyzed) some of the player's efforts, and tried to justify putting Bogo on forward, wreaked of a man who doesn't have much of a clue. Maybe he's just nervous in front of the cameras, but man...

It sounded like he wouldn't even have a say in the player personnel moves to cut down to 23?? "Not a hard decision for me, but for our organization, scouts etc" Is he just a Yes Man? Maybe TNSE, Zinger/Chevy wanted a guy who would tow the party line, and that's justified, but I'd MUCH prefer a guy who demands respect from his players and can give them a Tortorella-like tongue lashing when needed. We need a guy who can rein in all the freelancing these young, talented guys do, and get them playing a system that wins games. Is Noel a player's coach all the way? Can he get everyone to buy in?

I came away from the press conference with a TOTALLY different impression.
To me he seems like a man very confident in his own skin. He even swore if I remember correctly, because he was so relaxed with the situation. I think his statements regarding the roster are fair. He probably knows who the best 23 guys are, it also comes down to contract etc, and thats where Chevy comes in.

Noel is not by any means a coach that will allow freewheeling. He runs a structured defence that will make Bogo and Buff adjust to. I have total faith in his ability to lead the team.

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10-03-2011, 11:16 AM
  #340
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Hey guys quick question.

How did David Aebischer perform in camp and has he been cut?

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10-03-2011, 11:21 AM
  #341
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What about putting a forward back there?
I am completely open to that idea. The only point that I was trying to make was Jones at the point on the PP is not a foreign idea. With the ebb and flow of PP's throughout the year, it's pretty much guaranteed we will see him at least spot in there.

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10-03-2011, 11:27 AM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgyotes View Post
I didn't know where else to discuss this... this thread seemed the most appropriate. Did anyone else see/hear Claude Noel's trainwreck of a post conference after the Nashville game? It sounded like a guy who clearly is in over his head. I hope I'm wrong, but the way he analyzed (or non-analyzed) some of the player's efforts, and tried to justify putting Bogo on forward, wreaked of a man who doesn't have much of a clue. Maybe he's just nervous in front of the cameras, but man...

It sounded like he wouldn't even have a say in the player personnel moves to cut down to 23?? "Not a hard decision for me, but for our organization, scouts etc" Is he just a Yes Man? Maybe TNSE, Zinger/Chevy wanted a guy who would tow the party line, and that's justified, but I'd MUCH prefer a guy who demands respect from his players and can give them a Tortorella-like tongue lashing when needed. We need a guy who can rein in all the freelancing these young, talented guys do, and get them playing a system that wins games. Is Noel a player's coach all the way? Can he get everyone to buy in?

Funny I heard the exact opposite, I thought he was great in the post conference, confident, funny and said what he meant. He did allude to the fact that he played some players in positions and situations that he normally wouldn't at the request of the scouting staff. That happens all the time by the way when teams are trying to showcase a player they want to trade.

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10-03-2011, 01:37 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
LOL No doubt Enstrom is the best, but he's not so good he can take 4 spots.

Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, and?

Jones played lots of PP in junior, and has had modest success 3 years in the NHL. Hainsey and Oduya will most likely see spot duty there too, but there is nothing to say Jones won't see some PP action.
enstrom usually played the full two minutes last year. if he didn't, hainsey was the one to take his spot. hainsey was drafted 13th overall as an offensive d-man and 2 years ago had 39 points. those skills didn't just disappear because he started playing a more defensive oriented style. i'd much rather have him there than jones.

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10-03-2011, 01:41 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by wpgyotes View Post
I didn't know where else to discuss this... this thread seemed the most appropriate. Did anyone else see/hear Claude Noel's trainwreck of a post conference after the Nashville game? It sounded like a guy who clearly is in over his head. I hope I'm wrong, but the way he analyzed (or non-analyzed) some of the player's efforts, and tried to justify putting Bogo on forward, wreaked of a man who doesn't have much of a clue. Maybe he's just nervous in front of the cameras, but man...

It sounded like he wouldn't even have a say in the player personnel moves to cut down to 23?? "Not a hard decision for me, but for our organization, scouts etc" Is he just a Yes Man? Maybe TNSE, Zinger/Chevy wanted a guy who would tow the party line, and that's justified, but I'd MUCH prefer a guy who demands respect from his players and can give them a Tortorella-like tongue lashing when needed. We need a guy who can rein in all the freelancing these young, talented guys do, and get them playing a system that wins games. Is Noel a player's coach all the way? Can he get everyone to buy in?
i didn't listen to this particular conference, but i would say the biggest problem with the team the last few years is that they didn't have a strong enough personality as the coach. i hope noel can be that or else the team probably won't be going very far.

also in fairness, bogosian did practice as a forward some last year when there were injuries and he was a forward until he was 16 or so (i know that's not a huge deal but still). if byfuglien isn't going to move back to forward i wouldn't be opposed to bogosian doing so, his offensive abilities are quite good, obviously.

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10-03-2011, 06:29 PM
  #345
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LOL No doubt Enstrom is the best, but he's not so good he can take 4 spots.

Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, and?

Jones played lots of PP in junior, and has had modest success 3 years in the NHL. Hainsey and Oduya will most likely see spot duty there too, but there is nothing to say Jones won't see some PP action.
I see the PP depth chart as follows (i've put the players highest points total in parenthesis):

Enstrom (51)
Byfuglien (53)
Bogosian (23)
Hainsey (39)
------------------- Clear top 4 for me, then not quite as clear;
Oduya (29)
Postma (45 in the AHL)
Jones (31)
Stuart (20)


I think it's unlikely he sees much PP time. Enstrom often plays 2 mins on the PP, as can Byfuglien. Bogosian has too much potential to leave him of. Hainsey is a good puck mover and has played lots of PP before. Personally, i'd have Oduya ahead of him on the PP, but I guess a case could be made for Jones over Oduya.

So for Jones to even get a shot on the PP, one, maybe two of the 'regulars' would have to be out of the line-up, at which point they would likely call up Postma. If Postma's up i'd prefer to see him get a shot on the PP over Jones, he's the future, Jones isn't.

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10-03-2011, 06:41 PM
  #346
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Any news on David Aebischer? Will he be signed? Let go?

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10-03-2011, 06:49 PM
  #347
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Any news on David Aebischer? Will he be signed? Let go?
Was practicing with the team on Monday, but no word just yet. He is likely the 3rd goalie, I think it comes down to whether St. John's has faith in Mannino/Pasquale/Carozzi at the AHL level. Sounds like all 3 are struggling in camp. If I was Aebischer, I would sign an AHL contract with St. John's and if he plays well there he could sign anywhere as the season progresses and there is an opening somewhere he would be free to sign there, rather than tieing himself to the Jets(assuming St. John's/Winnipeg wants him there).

Also very interesting, getting back to TC Cuts as the thread title suggests since Jones, at this point, is almost assuredly on the roster despite my feelings about should have occured, is that Troy Bodie was not practicing today according to TSN. I know many have pencilled him into an enforcer/agitator 14th forward type of role, maybe Chevy has decided to role with 8D and Meech doubling as a 14th forward? Personnally, if I were a GM/Coach, it would always be my preference to fill out a roster with a player like that as having that versatility is huge, esspecially for Western teams that have long road trips and might lose a guy or two at very short notice (and double esspecially Western teams playing in the Eastern Conference) since they may not always have time to bring someone in.


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10-03-2011, 08:40 PM
  #348
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I'd let Jones go. He attempted two bonehead passes through his own slot from behind the net. I could not believe that any player above bantam would do that.

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