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Old
10-03-2011, 07:13 PM
  #26
madgoat33
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
Generally speaking, it's amazing how much of a lack of accent he has. I know a lot of the French-Canadians are pretty good at losing their accents too after enough time but Lidstrom's about as North American sounding as any non-North American I've ever seen. What isn't that damn guy good at??
staying young forever?

Back on topic, I don't think I trade Toews for Malkin right now until I see how Malkin is after his knee injury and even still I'd have to think about it.

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Old
10-03-2011, 07:18 PM
  #27
Blue Liner
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
staying young forever?

Back on topic, I don't think I trade Toews for Malkin right now until I see how Malkin is after his knee injury and even still I'd have to think about it.
Touche, but he's doing a pretty damn good job of trying.

As per topic, (didn't mean to hijack it!) that's a really tough call for me. Taking health into account changes things a bit, too. I know Toews means the world to the organization and city for that matter, but if you knew you could have a completely healthy Malkin that's tough to say no to. Health, at least right now, is the one crutch I have to lean on and say no for the time being.

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Old
10-03-2011, 07:21 PM
  #28
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Interesting...I like Toews game and his character...I'd probably do the trade and see how well Malkin goes on a line with Sharp and Kane.

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10-03-2011, 07:45 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Blue Liner View Post
Touche, but he's doing a pretty damn good job of trying.

As per topic, (didn't mean to hijack it!) that's a really tough call for me. Taking health into account changes things a bit, too. I know Toews means the world to the organization and city for that matter, but if you knew you could have a completely healthy Malkin that's tough to say no to. Health, at least right now, is the one crutch I have to lean on and say no for the time being.
Don't you think character is more important than that? I certainly do. Next to maybe the veteran Iginla, Toews is the best leader in the game, and definitely the best young leader in the NHL. Without Toews, Hawks would lose their character, and would need to redefine themselves as a team. Add Toews to a talented Pens group and you are a step closer to a SC, and probably instantly become the favourite to take it all.

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Old
10-03-2011, 07:48 PM
  #30
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I would say no to Malkin for Toews straight up.

Malkin is undoubtedly the better scorer. Toews is better at everything else and he's not bad at scoring. I know many people laugh at the "intangibles" aspect, but he is one player where that really means something. He is one of those rare players where "will to win" actually results in wins - even when he doesn't score.

If the hypothetical were (pre-concussion) Crosby for Toews straight up - I'd go with Crosby because he has those same "will to win" intangibles that Toews has PLUS he's a better scorer.

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10-03-2011, 08:14 PM
  #31
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Yeah, I'd say Toews is like a junior Crosby without the elite ability to score goals and set up plays that make you think "what the hell just happened?" Malkin's hands and sniping are certainly better than Toews but I'd still say no to the trade at this point and at that cap hit.

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10-03-2011, 08:43 PM
  #32
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Gotta say no to Malkin, even though he's undoubtedly the better scorer. Toews is still a great scorer, plus has an amazing two-way game... as many has said he's likely the most complete player in the game today. People do make fun of the intabgibles, and to them I say this:

Last February the Hawks went on a crazy 8-game winning streak to stay in the playoff race, despite their very best efforts to lose those games. Toews is the reason for that winning streak. He was superman that entire month when everyone else on his own team was kryptonite.

During the infamous CHI-VAN game 7, who was that singlehandedly fought through the checks of pretty much every Canuck on the ice to score a shortie mere minutes before the end of the game? I think you know.


Plus Malkin has the health issues. More importantly than that though, Toews is one of those guys that makes every player around him better. Malkin might have that effect on his teammates' stat sheets just because he'll put the puck wherever it needs to go, but he doesn't improve anyone's play.

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Old
10-03-2011, 08:56 PM
  #33
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I would trade Toews for Malkin in a fantasy hockey league. In real life however, I'd gladly pass.

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10-03-2011, 09:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by zytz View Post
During the infamous CHI-VAN game 7, who was that singlehandedly fought through the checks of pretty much every Canuck on the ice to score a shortie mere minutes before the end of the game? I think you know.
Where was he for the first three games of that series? Or in OT, when it really counted?

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Old
10-03-2011, 09:04 PM
  #35
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I would trade Toews for Malkin in a fantasy hockey league. In real life however, I'd gladly pass.
Have to agree. When you consider on ice play like defensive positioning and face-off percentages, that eats into a big part of the offensive disparity between the two players. Than add in the specific off ice differences (contract, leadership, knee injury and language), and I don't make the trade.

The final nail in the coffin for me is the Hawks inability to have Russian born players that don't kill the franchise. Pretty much every Russian player acquired in any fashion (trade, FA signing, draft) over my life all have sucked the life out of the organization. From Karpotsev to Mironov to Yakupov/Vorobiev - it's been a painful experience as a fan. And that's not even mentioning the guys like Berezin & Korolov. And I'm not a hater by any stretch - just that it doesn't ever seem to work out in Chicago - so I'd pass on a deal where I'm moving potentially a guy who will likely get his # retired if he stays with the franchise.


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Old
10-03-2011, 09:07 PM
  #36
HockeySensible
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
Where was he for the first three games of that series? Or in OT, when it really counted?
Remember that shot Sharp took on the PP that would have won us the game? Remember when Toews deked around a sprawling Vancouver Dman to get him the puck for that shot?



Toews didn't play as well offensively as he could have in that series, but he was good in game 7 for us.

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Old
10-03-2011, 11:52 PM
  #37
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I wouldn't do this trade. It's not just about comparing Toews to Malkin. It's about the effect each player has/would have on the rest of the team.

If you look at each players skill set it becomes pretty clear that Toews is a more important piece than Malkin would be. With guys like Kane, Sharp, and Hossa already on the roster, any additional offense from Malkin would merely move the Hawks from top 5 in goals scored to first. However the drop off in other areas would be much more steep.

First, Malkin has never averaged above 44% at the dot in a season. If you move Toews for Malkin who would you trust for that must win D-Zone faceoff at the end of the game?

Second, Malkin has never been a particularly strong defensive forward. Would you trust a line of Sharp/Malkin/Kane to consistently be defensively responsible?

Third, which would you rather have on a line, a Selke candidate paired with a potential art ross winner or an art ross winner paired with a potential art ross winner?

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Old
10-04-2011, 12:45 AM
  #38
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Is this on the Hawks board? Seems like it's all other fans chiming in. Simple answer is no. We're top 5 in GF anyways. Toews leaves and our team defense and leadership drops drastically. That is not offset by a hike in offense by Malkin.

Give us Crosby instead.

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Old
10-04-2011, 02:35 AM
  #39
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Not a chance. Would Malkin come in and instantly blend with the guys like Toews did? Does he really have the attributes to be leader of this team....not really. Plus when Toews plays 80 a year easily, Malkin does not anymore.

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10-04-2011, 02:56 AM
  #40
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No I wouldn't do this trade. Yes they both have won a cup and a Conn Smythe. Yes they are both great players. And yes Malkin is certainly more skilled.

But Toews won a cup for us. He won a cup with the other core players here and we know the chemistry is there. There's no player in the NHL I would trade him for. That's not saying there aren't better players...but I don't think there are better players for what the Blackhawks need.

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Old
10-04-2011, 03:07 AM
  #41
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I'll keep Toews cause Russians don't do so good in Chicago

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Old
10-04-2011, 03:32 AM
  #42
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If Stan Bowman made this trade, it would probably be a PR nightmare for the franchise. Toews will retire as a Blackhawk.

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10-04-2011, 03:45 AM
  #43
Spectra
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Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
I know this trade wont ever happen but lets just say it did....you got offered Malkin for Toews straight up, would you do it? I have a friend who believes every hawks fan would do this in a heartbeat but I disagree.
No. Would not trade Toews for any player in the world other than a fully healthy Crosby. And it wouldn't be in a heartbeat.

Toews, combining his skill + an almost unmatched level of intangibles, is one of the best players in the Hawks history.

If Malkin and Toews had no names, no history and were some kind of robots who you knew nothing about and you just based this of of pure hockey skill, yes, Malkin would be the prefered player.

Luckily, the real world is not a video game or a fantasy and other things matter. Intangibles, in this case, matter a whole lot. Leadership, personality, community relations, loyalty and many more things are things that Toews have shown since he got drafted by the Hawks. I would never ever trade that for another player who has slightly more pure hockey skills and I'm pretty sure the Hawks wouldn't do it either.

Toews, as of this time, is the definition of an untouchable.

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Old
10-04-2011, 09:18 AM
  #44
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Malkin is certainly the more talented player, but you can't trade your captain who is one of the best players in the league at 23 who recently won a Conne Smythe en route to your first cup in decades.

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Old
10-04-2011, 10:10 AM
  #45
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Pens wouldn't do this.

I wouldn't consider this from a Hawks POV

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Old
10-04-2011, 11:01 AM
  #46
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This proposal was suggested here a year ago also by a fan of another team. I hope this isn't an annual occurrence.

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10-04-2011, 11:08 AM
  #47
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Anyone who would make this trade is crazy...

You haven't seen the best of Toews yet by a long shot - you've already seen the best from Gino.

Not to mention the Hawks are built around Toews - trading him - even for a "better" player is playing with fire.

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Old
10-04-2011, 01:46 PM
  #48
Blue Liner
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Don't you think character is more important than that? I certainly do. Next to maybe the veteran Iginla, Toews is the best leader in the game, and definitely the best young leader in the NHL. Without Toews, Hawks would lose their character, and would need to redefine themselves as a team. Add Toews to a talented Pens group and you are a step closer to a SC, and probably instantly become the favourite to take it all.
I do, which is why I ultimately wouldn't do it. I said it'd be hard to say no to, but I'd still say no at the end of the day.

As for those talking about Toews not being as offensive in the Canucks series, how often were him and Kesler head to head on the ice together? Honest question. I remember them being paired against each other a lot, and Kesler didn't do f all offensively in that series either. They more or less canceled each other out...until Toews tied it when it mattered most and set up what could've been the game-winner with Sharp.

I'm not going to let one supbar offensive playoff series define him..or anyone. He's a point per game player in his NHL playoff career, was the young captain of a Cup winning team in only its second year of playoff appearances as a group, and there's that whole Conn Smythe thing he won.


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Old
10-04-2011, 04:27 PM
  #49
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Generally speaking, it's amazing how much of a lack of accent he has. I know a lot of the French-Canadians are pretty good at losing their accents too after enough time but Lidstrom's about as North American sounding as any non-North American I've ever seen. What isn't that damn guy good at??
The perfect human

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