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10-04-2011, 03:24 PM
  #151
Snipsnap12
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Guess what though? The guy with one shoulder still outbeat out new 4th line center (Talbot) in faceoffs (by a decent amount).

Thats pretty encouraging.

Add a stupid penalty taker in Rinaldo, minus one of our biggest pkers in Betts = worse pk. Thats great.
Ok so betts beat him out at faceoffs by 2% last year. Who is to say that will happen again this year. Go watch video of betts on the pk... the other team is in the zone the entire time, it takes him a painful amount of time to skate from inside the circle to the blueline.

He was good 2 years ago with lappy, but he has declined rapidly.

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10-04-2011, 03:27 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Ok so betts beat him out at faceoffs by 2% last year. Who is to say that will happen again this year. Go watch video of betts on the pk... the other team is in the zone the entire time, it takes him a painful amount of time to skate from inside the circle to the blueline.

He was good 2 years ago with lappy, but he has declined rapidly.
Talbot's best faceoff season hasnt beaten Betts' worse. So unless Talbot comes out as a 27 yr old completely revised faceoff technique, the chances are severely low.

Let me just say, we all complained about our faceoffs last season. Now we got rid of two of our better faceoff guys and replaced them with a rookie and a guy who is bad at taking faceoffs. Im not really pumped about that.

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10-04-2011, 03:38 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Talbot's best faceoff season hasnt beaten Betts' worse. So unless Talbot comes out as a 27 yr old completely revised faceoff technique, the chances are severely low.

Let me just say, we all complained about our faceoffs last season. Now we got rid of two of our better faceoff guys and replaced them with a rookie and a guy who is bad at taking faceoffs. Im not really pumped about that.
Betts and Talbot were only a 2% difference last year were they not? Sure it makes a difference, but so does being stuck in your own zone for over a minute because your forward is too slow to make plays on the puck.

I am too lazy to look up the stats but I am going to go out on a limb and say talbot did just fine on the pens pk last year (and assuming he took faceoffs), I can also assume that the pens pk was better then 15th. Now I know talbot is not the sole reason for that, but trust me he is an upgrade over betts no question. I will take speed, tenacity, and grit, over a 2% faceoff difference. Add to that talbot has the ability to put a few pucks in the net.

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10-04-2011, 03:44 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Betts and Talbot were only a 2% difference last year were they not? Sure it makes a difference, but so does being stuck in your own zone for over a minute because your forward is too slow to make plays on the puck.

I am too lazy to look up the stats but I am going to go out on a limb and say talbot did just fine on the pens pk last year (and assuming he took faceoffs), I can also assume that the pens pk was better then 15th. Now I know talbot is not the sole reason for that, but trust me he is an upgrade over betts no question. I will take speed, tenacity, and grit, over a 2% faceoff difference. Add to that talbot has the ability to put a few pucks in the net.
Pitt had a tremendous PK. #1 actually. The pk system and defense was solid though. Plus Adams is a real solid pker.

On the faceoff end, luckily it was just a 2% difference (which is actually a pretty big percentage.) The year before though was a 9.7% difference.

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10-04-2011, 03:48 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Pitt had a tremendous PK. #1 actually. The pk system and defense was solid though. Plus Adams is a real solid pker.

On the faceoff end, luckily it was just a 2% difference (which is actually a pretty big percentage.) The year before though was a 9.7% difference.
So talbot is improving in the faceoff circle due to the fact he is getting more chances and improving, while betts is on the decline because of his shoulder. I mean talbot could jump to 50-51% this year (I would not be surprised one bit) which would make the only argument to keep betts null and void.

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10-04-2011, 03:49 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Betts and Talbot were only a 2% difference last year were they not? Sure it makes a difference, but so does being stuck in your own zone for over a minute because your forward is too slow to make plays on the puck.

I am too lazy to look up the stats but I am going to go out on a limb and say talbot did just fine on the pens pk last year (and assuming he took faceoffs), I can also assume that the pens pk was better then 15th. Now I know talbot is not the sole reason for that, but trust me he is an upgrade over betts no question. I will take speed, tenacity, and grit, over a 2% faceoff difference. Add to that talbot has the ability to put a few pucks in the net.
He won 90 shorthanded faceoffs and lost 117. Betts won 152 and lost 177...that's 43% to 46%

(unless I've blown my math)

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Old
10-04-2011, 03:51 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
So talbot is improving in the faceoff circle due to the fact he is getting more chances and improving, while betts is on the decline because of his shoulder. I mean talbot could jump to 50-51% this year (I would not be surprised one bit) which would make the only argument to keep betts null and void.
Like I said though, Talbot has average 45% in faceoffs. He decreased from the 08/09 season to the 09/10 season almost 10%. He goes up and down constantly. I dont have confidence in a guy who is so jumpy in faceoffs.

Faceoffs matter. Other than Florida, the top 6 (including Florida) were all the best teams last season. Canucks, Sharks, Bruins, Wings, Caps.

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10-04-2011, 03:53 PM
  #158
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CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jaromir Jagr ($3.300m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.250m)
Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Andreas Nodl ($0.845m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Matt Walker ($1.700m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.737m)

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.666m) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $1,402,500

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,633,095; BONUSES: $4,265,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): -$1,333,095

Cut Schenn's cap hit in half, and it leaves us with over $300k in space with this lineup. I still don't like Walker as the 6th defenseman, he's too expensive for what he offers. Bartulis or Gustafsson would be the best choices imo, and obviously that would open up almost $1m more.

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10-04-2011, 03:55 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Like I said though, Talbot has average 45% in faceoffs. He decreased from the 08/09 season to the 09/10 season almost 10%. He goes up and down constantly. I dont have confidence in a guy who is so jumpy in faceoffs.
The difference in the two this year is likely to be so slim that it is irrelevant. Other than being a good faceoff man betts has nothing to offer anymore imo, there is no reason to keep him on this roster.

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10-04-2011, 04:07 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Like I said though, Talbot has average 45% in faceoffs. He decreased from the 08/09 season to the 09/10 season almost 10%. He goes up and down constantly. I dont have confidence in a guy who is so jumpy in faceoffs.

Faceoffs matter. Other than Florida, the top 6 (including Florida) were all the best teams last season. Canucks, Sharks, Bruins, Wings, Caps.
I think he had shoulder problems that season (09/10), I'm not too sure about it, but I seem to remember that there were some Pens fans who were worried he would never come back in full form.

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10-04-2011, 04:34 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
So talbot is improving in the faceoff circle due to the fact he is getting more chances and improving, while betts is on the decline because of his shoulder. I mean talbot could jump to 50-51% this year (I would not be surprised one bit) which would make the only argument to keep betts null and void.
Talbot has only been at 50% in winning faceoffs only once. The rest of the time he has been below 50%. He is not good at them.

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10-04-2011, 04:38 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Talbot has only been at 50% in winning faceoffs only once. The rest of the time he has been below 50%. He is not good at them.
It is pretty much a coin flip, but so is betts at this point.

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10-04-2011, 08:14 PM
  #163
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Pacianno just tweeted these lines:

Who the heck are the 3rd and 4th line centers? Does Couturier start the season centering the 3rd line and Read centers the 4th? Is Read even a center?

Weird...

Voracek - Briere - Simmonds
JVR - Giroux - Jagr
Nodl - Couturier - Hartnell
Rinaldo - ??Read?? - Talbot

Couturier/Shelley

Meszaros - Timonon
Couburn - Lilja
Carle - Pronger

Gustafsson??? Who the hell is the 7th defenseman if it isn't him? I like Meszros on the 2nd pairing instead of Coburn.

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10-04-2011, 08:22 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
Pacianno just tweeted these lines:

Who the heck are the 3rd and 4th line centers? Does Couturier start the season centering the 3rd line and Read centers the 4th? Is Read even a center?

Weird...

Voracek - Briere - Simmonds
JVR - Giroux - Jagr
Nodl - Couturier - Hartnell
Rinaldo - ??Read?? - Talbot

Couturier/Shelley

Meszaros - Timonon
Couburn - Lilja
Carle - Pronger

Gustafsson??? Who the hell is the 7th defenseman if it isn't him? I like Meszros on the 2nd pairing instead of Coburn.
What the hell? I can understand Gus since he got sent down, but the rest... what?

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10-04-2011, 08:38 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Pitt had a tremendous PK. #1 actually. The pk system and defense was solid though. Plus Adams is a real solid pker.

On the faceoff end, luckily it was just a 2% difference (which is actually a pretty big percentage.) The year before though was a 9.7% difference.
the year before Talbot only played like 30 games and was still recovering from offseason shoulder surgery.

it isn't unrealistic for him to improve his FO % to over 50% if you look at his progression from his rookie year. he steadily improved each year and at 27 is stil young enough to get better with experience.

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10-04-2011, 08:44 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
the year before Talbot only played like 30 games and was still recovering from offseason shoulder surgery.

it isn't unrealistic for him to improve his FO % to over 50% if you look at his progression from his rookie year. he steadily improved each year and at 27 is stil young enough to get better with experience.

Agreed, he is on the upswing, and if we ask him to take a bigger role in the faceoff circle you can bet money on him doing everything he can to improve...just one of those type of guys that will do anything to win.

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10-04-2011, 08:46 PM
  #167
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****ing dreading watching lilja actually playing as our #6. ****ing boneheaded

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10-04-2011, 10:03 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
Pacianno just tweeted these lines:

Who the heck are the 3rd and 4th line centers? Does Couturier start the season centering the 3rd line and Read centers the 4th? Is Read even a center?

Weird...

Voracek - Briere - Simmonds
JVR - Giroux - Jagr
Nodl - Couturier - Hartnell
Rinaldo - ??Read?? - Talbot

Couturier/Shelley

Meszaros - Timonon
Couburn - Lilja
Carle - Pronger

Gustafsson??? Who the hell is the 7th defenseman if it isn't him? I like Meszros on the 2nd pairing instead of Coburn.
Can we expect these lines for Thursday? If not what are you thinking?

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Old
10-04-2011, 10:11 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alycat View Post
Can we expect these lines for Thursday? If not what are you thinking?
This is what I think

Hartnell-Briere-Voracek
JVR-Giroux-Jagr
Simmonds-Couturier-Read
Rinaldo-Talbot-Nodl

Pronger-Carle
Coburn-Timonen
Mezaros-Lilja

bryz
bob

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10-04-2011, 10:23 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
This is what I think

Hartnell-Briere-Voracek
JVR-Giroux-Jagr
Simmonds-Couturier-Read
Rinaldo-Talbot-Nodl

Pronger-Carle
Coburn-Timonen
Mezaros-Lilja

bryz
bob
Yep, seems about right. Let's hope to God that Shelley isn't put back in the line-up when he's done his suspension.

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Old
10-04-2011, 10:27 PM
  #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
This is what I think

Hartnell-Briere-Voracek
JVR-Giroux-Jagr
Simmonds-Couturier-Read
Rinaldo-Talbot-Nodl

Pronger-Carle
Coburn-Timonen
Mezaros-Lilja

bryz
bob
This is exactly what I was thinking.

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Old
10-04-2011, 10:28 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
Yep, seems about right. Let's hope to God that Shelley isn't put back in the line-up when he's done his suspension.
I think that all comes down to rinaldo playing well enough to make it impossible for lavy to justify shelley back in the lineup

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Old
10-04-2011, 10:38 PM
  #173
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I'm going to guess this

Voracek - Briere - Simmonds
JVR - Giroux - Jagr
Read - Couturier - Hartnell
Rinaldo - Talbot - Nodl


Carle - Pronger
Meszaros - Timonon
Couburn - Lilja

Bryzgalov
Bobrovsky

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Old
10-04-2011, 10:49 PM
  #174
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Any interest in New York's Stu Bickel? He was placed on waivers today. He's a big physical defenseman, and was being thought very highly of as early as last week by rangers personell and players.

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10-04-2011, 11:05 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
Any interest in New York's Stu Bickel? He was placed on waivers today. He's a big physical defenseman, and was being thought very highly of as early as last week by rangers personell and players.
no we have too many 6/7th dmen, we need to free up contracts not add more

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