HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Nashville Predators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lombardi Playing Tonight: Re-Evaluating the Trade?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-04-2011, 08:12 AM
  #76
PredsV82
Puckaroni and cheese
 
PredsV82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Outside
Country: Scotland
Posts: 12,685
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeywoot View Post
I always thought Franson would have garnered more in a trade.
I thought his potential is high no? (Albeit, I am basing this mostly on NHL 11 potential stats lol)

If he's #7 on TML, yeah thats not much of a loss.
I dont think anyone ever honestly saw him as top 4 material, his ceiling is PP specialist who gets good enough to not be awful at ES.

It seems that many people have forgotten, but a lot of us were surprised that Franson made the big club and stuck in the first place. He had been something of an afterthought in the huge swarm of defensive prospects we have.

But when he got his chance he did score some goals and so he stayed up and we have the luxury of having a stacked top 4 so he could be protected as much as possible. But he was about to be passed by several prospects this year in any case.

PredsV82 is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 08:56 AM
  #77
Legionnaire11
Registered User
 
Legionnaire11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hendersonville
Country: United States
Posts: 2,750
vCash: 500
Still too early to tell. Sure Lombardi might not look ready now, and Franson may start as the #7. But where will they be at Christmas? Trade Deadline? April? Things could look much different at that point, or very much the same.

Legionnaire11 is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 09:04 AM
  #78
AtlantaWhaler
Moderator
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
 
AtlantaWhaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 11,332
vCash: 500
So far, I give the clear edge to Toronto based on the fact that the cap space is still there. Once 2 of the 3, or all 3 are signed, then I'll call it a wash.

AtlantaWhaler is online now  
Old
10-04-2011, 09:25 AM
  #79
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
So far, I give the clear edge to Toronto based on the fact that the cap space is still there. Once 2 of the 3, or all 3 are signed, then I'll call it a wash.
If we ice better players why does it matter if the cap space is spent or not?

Lombardi's salary is the difference between the Preds spending more than last season or not.

101st_fan is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 09:30 AM
  #80
AtlantaWhaler
Moderator
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
 
AtlantaWhaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 11,332
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
If we ice better players why does it matter if the cap space is spent or not?

Lombardi's salary is the difference between the Preds spending more than last season or not.
Because it's not just the players lost, but its the return. We got nothing but a buyout and a prospect that will toil in Cincinnati. The point of the trade was obviously to make room for moves. So far...nothing.

AtlantaWhaler is online now  
Old
10-04-2011, 10:00 AM
  #81
hatedandproud
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: On the MBTA
Posts: 293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Well, its not just the poile defenders who fail to acknowledge both sides of the coin. As I have said before I hate it that poile was in the situation that led to him feeling this trade was necessary. And lombardis return does make it have even more "well crap" factor. But second guessing after the fact of lombardis return is known, or continuing to insist franson was some big trade chip even after he failed to crack the leafs top six is just as off base as unquestioning poile defending
This pretty much nails it.
There can be objective conversation, but when the points are made by what some call the Poile apologists (or whatever term they want to use), all you hear back is how he screwed up because lombardi made this miraculous, and by all accounts unforseen, recovery or that franson was some awesome D-man that should have gotten us an equally awesome player in return.

And I am not a Poile apologist. On these very boards, I've questioned whether he can get this team to the top. But, I do think that he has done a pretty damn good job thus far. So I guess I am giving him the benefit of the doubt.

And as far as the "no move yet so he screwed up group," not everything happens immediately. If a move is made at the deadline will he still have screwed up because he didn't do something before the season started?

hatedandproud is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 10:01 AM
  #82
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Because it's not just the players lost, but its the return. We got nothing but a buyout and a prospect that will toil in Cincinnati. The point of the trade was obviously to make room for moves. So far...nothing.
A primary goal was to get rid of a contract that appeared to be dead weight at the time. Mission accomplished on that front. There is now financial and roster flexibility that wouldn't exist with those two contracts on the books which is a positive. If the right player becomes available, the money and ability to move players around is there to make the deal. If the right player doesn't come available, the team saves money.

The healthy player we shipped out appears to be the #7 d-man for the Leafs and health questions remain on the other. We didn't lose Scott Stevens and Gretzky ... we shipped out a bottom pairing d-man who we replaced from within and a guy who appeared wasn't going to play who we replaced, for now at least, with Smith while saving money and gaining roster flexibility.

Patience is a virtue, and needed to truly judge how this deal turns out. Right now it's way too soon.

101st_fan is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 10:53 AM
  #83
dulzhok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broom of the System View Post
I'm fine with this trade and I love David Legwand.

There, I said it.
Let me guess, Vietnam wasn't a mistake either.

dulzhok is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 10:56 AM
  #84
AL-Canadian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
A primary goal was to get rid of a contract that appeared to be dead weight at the time. Mission accomplished on that front. There is now financial and roster flexibility that wouldn't exist with those two contracts on the books which is a positive. If the right player becomes available, the money and ability to move players around is there to make the deal. If the right player doesn't come available, the team saves money.

The healthy player we shipped out appears to be the #7 d-man for the Leafs and health questions remain on the other. We didn't lose Scott Stevens and Gretzky ... we shipped out a bottom pairing d-man who we replaced from within and a guy who appeared wasn't going to play who we replaced, for now at least, with Smith while saving money and gaining roster flexibility.

Patience is a virtue, and needed to truly judge how this deal turns out. Right now it's way too soon.

AMEN brother!!

AL-Canadian is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 11:11 AM
  #85
dulzhok
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,528
vCash: 500
This kind of move will dictate whether Weber, Suter, and Rinne stay.

The bottom line is we prematurely gave up Lombardi (when we weren't even paying him). We had to give up assets w/ value and take on more salary to do so. Now he's healthy and could probably be traded for future considerations. There is no waiting that needs to be done to see that part of the trade.

If this was a salary dump in order for us to be the lowest payroll team in the league again, my guess is at least 2 of Weber/Suter/Rinne will bolt. If this was a move to truly add more salary (not just more $ to Weber), then it will look a little better to our players questioning Poile & mgmt's ability to improve the team.


Last edited by dulzhok: 10-04-2011 at 11:20 AM.
dulzhok is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 11:17 AM
  #86
David Singleton
HFB Partner
 
David Singleton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Dickson, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I admit, I had to chuckle this afternoon when I read that Franson is starting the year as the No. 7 D for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He is a valuable offensive weapon, but until he improves his skating, he is very limited defensively and needs to be protected in terms of zone starts and match ups. I think he'll actually earn his way into a regular role this season, but am happy to see that he's getting this wake up call right now...

As for Lombardi, I'm happy to see that he's healthy and wish him the best. Reality is that we couldn't afford to take the risk moving forward that he could suffer another setback or sustain another concussion and possibly be out long-term again. We are a small market team, Toronto actually gets a benefit if he goes on LTIR, but we do not.

As I said last night, this was a no win situation for Poile, but I think he made the right decision shedding two assets to make room for some roster competition amongst our younger players and in the long run we will come out better for it.

That's just my opinion, I don't expect everyone to agree with it and understand that some just see it as shedding two assets and getting back a buyout (Lebda) and an AHL lifer at best (Slaney) for it. That IS frustrating!!! If you look past this move though and look for the big picture, I think there's a case to be made that we are better off for the move though.

P.S. Every time this topic comes up I cringe when I click on the thread. It is singlehandedly the most divisive issue that the fan base has gone through since the "Legwand" debates of the mid-2000's.

Please just be civil when debating the issue and realize that no one's necessarily right or wrong and that there's multiple ways of looking at it. Personal attacks won't be tolerated...
This is essentially how I look at the situation as well. It was the most appealing option in a bunch of distasteful options.

The team is now positioned to try their strengths and then actually be able to do something to address shortcomings.

David Singleton is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 12:49 PM
  #87
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
This kind of move will dictate whether Weber, Suter, and Rinne stay.

The bottom line is we prematurely gave up Lombardi (when we weren't even paying him). We had to give up assets w/ value and take on more salary to do so. Now he's healthy and could probably be traded for future considerations. There is no waiting that needs to be done to see that part of the trade.

If this was a salary dump in order for us to be the lowest payroll team in the league again, my guess is at least 2 of Weber/Suter/Rinne will bolt. If this was a move to truly add more salary (not just more $ to Weber), then it will look a little better to our players questioning Poile & mgmt's ability to improve the team.
How long do you think the window was to potentially move Lombardi when the team thought there was little/no chance of him playing?

101st_fan is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 01:06 PM
  #88
gopreds19
Formerly gobears19
 
gopreds19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,188
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
How long do you think the window was to potentially move Lombardi when the team thought there was little/no chance of him playing?
I guess we will never know. But it looks like the front office really had not effectively communicated with him about his status, because before the ink was dry on the trade, reports started coming out that Lombo might be ready for the season opener.

I still contend DP had another move in mind, but he couldn't make it happen, at which point all efforts should have been made to solidify our future with the big 3, not kick it down the road a year.

gopreds19 is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 01:31 PM
  #89
101st_fan
I taught Yoda
 
101st_fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Some Army fort
Country: United States
Posts: 5,459
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
I guess we will never know. But it looks like the front office really had not effectively communicated with him about his status, because before the ink was dry on the trade, reports started coming out that Lombo might be ready for the season opener.

I still contend DP had another move in mind, but he couldn't make it happen, at which point all efforts should have been made to solidify our future with the big 3, not kick it down the road a year.
My big question is how much of it was new doctors and how much of it was a new found motivation that led to Lombardi's rapid change after the trade.

101st_fan is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 04:16 PM
  #90
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Because it's not just the players lost, but its the return. We got nothing but a buyout and a prospect that will toil in Cincinnati. The point of the trade was obviously to make room for moves. So far...nothing.
See, this is where I see things differently. You're looking at only the players involved in the deal to decide if the trade was a success or not. It cleared space for us to ice a better defenseman in place of Franson and it allowed any number of prospects to come in and fight for a position on the roster. The bottom line to me is are we a better team because of what our roster looks like now or if we had Franson and/or Lombardi on it instead? I think we're a better team now and in the long run by making this move and just because we didn't receive assets in return doesn't mean it wasn't beneficial to the success of the team.

glenngineer is online now  
Old
10-04-2011, 05:29 PM
  #91
nine_inch_fang
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 1,506
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to nine_inch_fang
Gawd I can't believe David Poile traded Dunham what ever will we do?

nine_inch_fang is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 07:29 PM
  #92
Predatorbill
Registered User
 
Predatorbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 770
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by nine_inch_fang View Post
Gawd I can't believe David Poile traded Dunham what ever will we do?
I still haven't gotten over DP trading J.J. Daigneault

Predatorbill is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 09:23 PM
  #93
braindead
Registered User
 
braindead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The cookie spoke
Country: Tibet
Posts: 2,764
vCash: 500
With word starting to trickle out that Franson will be the 7th d-man (not top pairing-- or top 4-- as we were told after the trade), I wonder what the chances are that Lombo will play more games than Franson. A good wager opportunity...

braindead is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 09:36 PM
  #94
Phion Keneuf
Top Dawg Ent.
 
Phion Keneuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Italy
Posts: 27,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
With word starting to trickle out that Franson will be the 7th d-man (not top pairing-- or top 4-- as we were told after the trade), I wonder what the chances are that Lombo will play more games than Franson. A good wager opportunity...
Franson is apparently upset about the outcome (him as the 7th dman) and personally i don't blame him ....

as a leafs and preds fan i understand that he is not a player that you want to rely on in your top 4, but he is still a serviceable bottom pairing dman, who is still young and can still improve

I fully expect Burke to ship out one of our many lower end defensemen, or possibly more than one


Lombardi has looked good so far, much better than Connolly, we have a log jam at both forward and defense ,yet we don't have a legit 1st line or legit 1st D pairing



anyways, im so stoked to watch the Preds this season, they have looked very, very good in the preseason, i havnt seen much of Bergfors, how has he been?

Phion Keneuf is offline  
Old
10-04-2011, 09:51 PM
  #95
PredsV82
Puckaroni and cheese
 
PredsV82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Outside
Country: Scotland
Posts: 12,685
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Franson is apparently upset about the outcome (him as the 7th dman) and personally i don't blame him ....

as a leafs and preds fan i understand that he is not a player that you want to rely on in your top 4, but he is still a serviceable bottom pairing dman, who is still young and can still improve

I fully expect Burke to ship out one of our many lower end defensemen, or possibly more than one


Lombardi has looked good so far, much better than Connolly, we have a log jam at both forward and defense ,yet we don't have a legit 1st line or legit 1st D pairing



anyways, im so stoked to watch the Preds this season, they have looked very, very good in the preseason, i havnt seen much of Bergfors, how has he been?
OK, not flaming but I dont understand the line of reasoning... are you saying eventually Franson will play because Burke will trade away guys above him on the depth chart? how does that help your team?

as for Bergfors, he made the team but hasnt been exceptional, and based on the reported practice lines hes right now looking at being a healthy scratch to start off the season.... sounds a bit like Franson actually

PredsV82 is offline  
Old
10-05-2011, 12:11 AM
  #96
kypredsfan
Weber is OUR captain
 
kypredsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 4,499
vCash: 500
Cody Franson

He will be starting the season in the pressbox as the #7 Dman in Toronto. Now, I never was really disappointed to see him leave, but I figured he'd atleast be a #4 or #5 there. Wow.

kypredsfan is offline  
Old
10-05-2011, 01:20 AM
  #97
Everlong
-
 
Everlong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,288
vCash: 500
Rookie Jake Gardiner came in and made the team unexpectedly so there's a bit of a logjam there.

Everlong is online now  
Old
10-05-2011, 03:18 AM
  #98
barrytrotzsneck
Retired Global Mod
 
barrytrotzsneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashville, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 31,119
vCash: 500
It's not a popular opinion, but I expect Bergfors to be more Marek Svatos than Sergei Kostitsyn. I expect him on waivers and gone before Xmas.

barrytrotzsneck is offline  
Old
10-05-2011, 04:11 AM
  #99
ThirdManIn
Mod Supervisor
 
ThirdManIn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 43,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
It's not a popular opinion, but I expect Bergfors to be more Marek Svatos than Sergei Kostitsyn. I expect him on waivers and gone before Xmas.
Honestly, I've had visions of Svatos running through my head since we got Bergfors. Hopefully both of us are wrong, but I tend to agree.

ThirdManIn is online now  
Old
10-05-2011, 06:19 AM
  #100
glenngineer
Registered User
 
glenngineer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Spring Hill, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 3,944
vCash: 500
Then again when SK got off to a slow start last year everyone wrote him off too.

glenngineer is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.