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Erik Gustafsson, Brayden Schenn and Harry Zolnierczyk to Phantoms

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Old
10-04-2011, 07:49 PM
  #101
VanSciver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I could see them getting busted for that if they aren't careful. If Homer says they sent him down specifically to avoid the cap hit, I could see Bettman or whoever punishing the Flyers in some way. If they say he is hurt or whatever and the cap hit getting cut in half is just a happy coincidence then I think they are ok.
Punishing them for what? There is no rule against sending a player to the AHL, to avoid a Cap hit. It happens with many player every year. Why are do the Ranger waive and demote Wade Redden? or Edmonton with Souray?

Bettman has no standing to do so.

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10-04-2011, 08:13 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I could see them getting busted for that if they aren't careful. If Homer says they sent him down specifically to avoid the cap hit, I could see Bettman or whoever punishing the Flyers in some way. If they say he is hurt or whatever and the cap hit getting cut in half is just a happy coincidence then I think they are ok.
Not sure if it can be cap circumvention. Don't most cap circumventions come from contract agreements? This contract was already in place, and the Flyers find a loophole around the bonus. That's not their fault.

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Originally Posted by dingbathero View Post
If I were Schenn, I'd be pissed. Same with the NHLPA. But they have no reason to be pissed at the Flyers. They ought to be pissed at Lombardi, and at his agent, for accepting such a contract. And in the back of his mind, they must know that there was now way he was going to play 25 mpg for all 82 games.

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Old
10-04-2011, 08:53 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
And in the back of his mind, they must know that there was now way he was going to play 25 mpg for all 82 games.
Yeah. That would be crazy, really.

Since when is a possible 3rd line center going to field 25 minutes for 82 games when it would be his 1st season. Talk about exhaustion. He would have to be pretty amazing to pull those kind of minutes.

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Old
10-04-2011, 09:43 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
If I were Schenn, I'd be pissed. Same with the NHLPA. But they have no reason to be pissed at the Flyers. They ought to be pissed at Lombardi, and at his agent, for accepting such a contract. And in the back of his mind, they must know that there was now way he was going to play 25 mpg for all 82 games.
Schenn completely understood the clause and the true meaning behind it when he signed the contract. Schenn wanted to be in the NHL as soon as possible, but knew the 3+ million cap hit that he was eligible for would hinder his progress. He sacrificed 1.2 mil in bonuses in order to make it more likely that he'd make the NHL quicker. A lot of people believe Bobby Ryan would have become an NHL regular if not for his contract and the Ducks' cap situation. Schenn wanted to avoid being stuck in the minors like Ryan longer than he had to be.

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10-04-2011, 09:52 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by redcard View Post
Schenn completely understood the clause and the true meaning behind it when he signed the contract. Schenn wanted to be in the NHL as soon as possible, but knew the 3+ million cap hit that he was eligible for would hinder his progress. He sacrificed 1.2 mil in bonuses in order to make it more likely that he'd make the NHL quicker. A lot of people believe Bobby Ryan would have become an NHL regular if not for his contract and the Ducks' cap situation. Schenn wanted to avoid being stuck in the minors like Ryan longer than he had to be.
Ya, he is going to be happy just playing with the big club this year... I feel he would be upset if it were his contract getting in the way of being able to play rather than this helping his cause like you said.

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10-04-2011, 10:05 PM
  #106
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I truly don't understand what the point of including a unobtainable bonus in a contract is (other then if you are a team trying to hit the cap floor). As a player, why bother including a bonus you know you will never reach. It would make more sense to add a bonus that is plausible, even if it means the bonus money would be less. And from the clubs perspective, it doesn't make any sense because you artificially increase the players cap hit for no discernible reason.

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10-04-2011, 11:06 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Punishing them for what? There is no rule against sending a player to the AHL, to avoid a Cap hit. It happens with many player every year. Why are do the Ranger waive and demote Wade Redden? or Edmonton with Souray?

Bettman has no standing to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Not sure if it can be cap circumvention. Don't most cap circumventions come from contract agreements? This contract was already in place, and the Flyers find a loophole around the bonus. That's not their fault.
Look at later posts. This issue was resolved earlier.

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Old
10-05-2011, 01:35 AM
  #108
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With the cap savings on Schenn, and the waiving of Betts and Bartulis, Walker will be on the roster as the 7th defenseman.
Walker, Rinaldo and Shelley on the roster and Betts likely playing for a division rival.
who needs Pker when you have 3 worthless pieces of crap on the roster.

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Old
10-05-2011, 02:19 AM
  #109
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I have bad news on Schenn. According to someone on the main board the 25 games bonus simply does not exist. He claims that Dreger has no clue what is going on. Apparently sending down Schenn does nothing whatsoever to his cap hit. There are two more likely scenarios.

1. Schenn spends the year in the AHL.
2. Schenn is sent down and recalled multiple times throughout the season which creates a few thousand in cap space. Something that the hawks used to do with Jack Skille.

Other than that we drop Couturier and bring Schenn up after 9 games.

God damnit! Just when I was getting my hopes up!

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Old
10-05-2011, 03:30 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
I have bad news on Schenn. According to someone on the main board the 25 games bonus simply does not exist. He claims that Dreger has no clue what is going on. Apparently sending down Schenn does nothing whatsoever to his cap hit. There are two more likely scenarios.

1. Schenn spends the year in the AHL.
2. Schenn is sent down and recalled multiple times throughout the season which creates a few thousand in cap space. Something that the hawks used to do with Jack Skille.

Other than that we drop Couturier and bring Schenn up after 9 games.

God damnit! Just when I was getting my hopes up!

Either you or the person on the main board are a troll. there have been MULTIPLE sources, one including Holmgren himself who said that Schenn is being sent down "purely for cap reasons" that verify that part of his "paret B" bonuses.

Now, to my fellow flyers fans, unless I missed a transaction somewhere along the line, we sit at 50 contracts without Couturiers counting correct? From everything we have heard, the Flyers are impressed with Couturier and he'll start the season on the Flyers. Holmgren said that he doesn't know how long Schenn will spend in the minors but to me it all seems to depend upon Couturier and our "50 contract" status. It's no secret that one of the reasons we waived Betts, Bart and Walker is in hopes that one of them gets claimed, thus freeing up a contract spot. If none get claimed then I think that Holmgren will look to move someone via a trade to free up a contract spot. If we can't clear a contract spot before game 10 then Couturier would HAVE to go back to juniors correct??? Because of the uncertainty of Couturier and the 50 contract status I think that this is the reason that Homer is saying he doesn't know how long Schenn will spend in the AHL.

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Old
10-05-2011, 04:23 AM
  #111
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Flyers current roster (without waived/loaned players & Lappy on LTIR):

Forwards (13) - Briere, Hartnell, Giroux, Jagr, Voracek, Talbot, Simmonds, JVR, Couturier, Shelly, Read, Nodl, & Rinaldo - 29.92 mil

Dmen (6) - Timonen, Pronger, Meszaros, Carle, Coburn, Lilja - 22.63 mil

Goalies (2) - Bryzgalov, Bobrovsky - 7.42 mil

Carry over from last year - 1.40 mil

21-man roster + carryover = 61.37

That leaves us with 2.93 mil in cap space. We have enough to add one of Schenn (1.75 mil) or Walker (1.7 mil) but not both without sending down/trading away a player.

I see one of two MOST LIKELY possible scenarios playing out at this point (or more specifically, after game 1 when Lappy is put on LTIR).

One - If none of Walker, Betts, nore Bart are claimed off waivers or if they don't believe that Couturier is NHL ready right now, then Couturier will have to go back to juniors before game 10 or else we go over the 50-contract limit. I think that Walker will be kept on the opening day roster and be the 6th dman with Lilja the 7th. Schenn replaces Couturier and we run with a 22-man roster and have just over 800k in cap space.

Two - If one of the waived guys are claimed & they think Couturier is NHL ready now, then Couturier will be kept for the season, Schenn is added and pushes us to 14 forwards, and one of Bart/Gus make the team leaving us with 300k-500k in cap space for a 23-man roster.

There may be other possible scenarios (like trading a current to 9 guy to open up cap space and a top 9 roster spot) but I think these are the most likely scenarios.

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Old
10-05-2011, 06:11 AM
  #112
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This 25 minute thing makes no sense. Why would anyone sign a contract with a clause like that?

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:44 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Flyers current roster (without waived/loaned players & Lappy on LTIR):

Forwards (13) - Briere, Hartnell, Giroux, Jagr, Voracek, Talbot, Simmonds, JVR, Couturier, Shelly, Read, Nodl, & Rinaldo - 29.92 mil

Dmen (6) - Timonen, Pronger, Meszaros, Carle, Coburn, Lilja - 22.63 mil

Goalies (2) - Bryzgalov, Bobrovsky - 7.42 mil

Carry over from last year - 1.40 mil

21-man roster + carryover = 61.37

That leaves us with 2.93 mil in cap space. We have enough to add one of Schenn (1.75 mil) or Walker (1.7 mil) but not both without sending down/trading away a player.

I see one of two MOST LIKELY possible scenarios playing out at this point (or more specifically, after game 1 when Lappy is put on LTIR).

One - If none of Walker, Betts, nore Bart are claimed off waivers or if they don't believe that Couturier is NHL ready right now, then Couturier will have to go back to juniors before game 10 or else we go over the 50-contract limit. I think that Walker will be kept on the opening day roster and be the 6th dman with Lilja the 7th. Schenn replaces Couturier and we run with a 22-man roster and have just over 800k in cap space.

Two - If one of the waived guys are claimed & they think Couturier is NHL ready now, then Couturier will be kept for the season, Schenn is added and pushes us to 14 forwards, and one of Bart/Gus make the team leaving us with 300k-500k in cap space for a 23-man roster.

There may be other possible scenarios (like trading a current to 9 guy to open up cap space and a top 9 roster spot) but I think these are the most likely scenarios.
I would put my money on ONE, none of them gets claimed:

Walker: salary is too high regardless of all the praise he is getting now
Bartulis: too soft for a stay-at-home type of defenseman, low ceiling, has not done anything spectacular at the NHL level yet
Betts: a 4th liner beyond his peak with injury history

And there are still serviceable unsigned FAs out there...

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Old
10-05-2011, 08:54 AM
  #114
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25 minutes a game in all 82 games??? What the hell is the point of a clause like that? No rookie forward will ever get close to achieving that.

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Old
10-05-2011, 09:31 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcard View Post
Schenn completely understood the clause and the true meaning behind it when he signed the contract. Schenn wanted to be in the NHL as soon as possible, but knew the 3+ million cap hit that he was eligible for would hinder his progress. He sacrificed 1.2 mil in bonuses in order to make it more likely that he'd make the NHL quicker. A lot of people believe Bobby Ryan would have become an NHL regular if not for his contract and the Ducks' cap situation. Schenn wanted to avoid being stuck in the minors like Ryan longer than he had to be.
Yeah, here's a quote from the Kings board about a Lombardi interview a year ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
If anyone needs to be reminded of what I'm referring to:

LOMBARDI: [...] To the kid’s credit though, one thing that bodes well for the kid, in fairness to him, he adjusted his contract. As the fifth pick, he could have demanded X, Y and Z on his cap number, but he recognized that he wanted to play here, so he kept his cap number down to ensure that he’s not left off the team because of his cap number. That’s what happened with Rask. You’re starting to see that more and more with kids, where the cap number is too high for the role. With Rask, if he becomes a No. 1, he’s worth it, but I can’t call him up as a No. 2 at the number, so the kid stays in the minors. So you’re starting to see a little of that. Schenner might be one of the first ones to adjust on his first contract and say, `OK, if I’m going to break in, I might have to start as a No. 4, and I can’t break in as a 4 with a $3-million cap number.”

Question: His cap number had been listed at around $3 million. That’s actually not what it would cost you to have him around?

LOMBARDI: “Let’s just say, for now, that he has showed it’s important for him to make this team and not have that as a hindrance.”


http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/06/02...-on-prospects/

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Old
10-05-2011, 09:41 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Flyers current roster (without waived/loaned players & Lappy on LTIR):

Forwards (13) - Briere, Hartnell, Giroux, Jagr, Voracek, Talbot, Simmonds, JVR, Couturier, Shelly, Read, Nodl, & Rinaldo - 29.92 mil

Dmen (6) - Timonen, Pronger, Meszaros, Carle, Coburn, Lilja - 22.63 mil

Goalies (2) - Bryzgalov, Bobrovsky - 7.42 mil

Carry over from last year - 1.40 mil

21-man roster + carryover = 61.37

That leaves us with 2.93 mil in cap space. We have enough to add one of Schenn (1.75 mil) or Walker (1.7 mil) but not both without sending down/trading away a player.

I see one of two MOST LIKELY possible scenarios playing out at this point (or more specifically, after game 1 when Lappy is put on LTIR).

One - If none of Walker, Betts, nore Bart are claimed off waivers or if they don't believe that Couturier is NHL ready right now, then Couturier will have to go back to juniors before game 10 or else we go over the 50-contract limit. I think that Walker will be kept on the opening day roster and be the 6th dman with Lilja the 7th. Schenn replaces Couturier and we run with a 22-man roster and have just over 800k in cap space.

Two - If one of the waived guys are claimed & they think Couturier is NHL ready now, then Couturier will be kept for the season, Schenn is added and pushes us to 14 forwards, and one of Bart/Gus make the team leaving us with 300k-500k in cap space for a 23-man roster.

There may be other possible scenarios (like trading a current to 9 guy to open up cap space and a top 9 roster spot) but I think these are the most likely scenarios.
Don't think Flyers will carry 14 forwards but I do think that Couturier, Schenn and Walker all make the team (obviously Schenn doesnt start the season w/ the Flyers). If no one is picked up off waivers I think we can expect a small trade to clear a contract spot and money OR the waiving of someone (please be Shelley) accompanied w/ a trade to clear a roster spot. At least this is how I hope it plays out. At the end of the day it's about putting the best possible team out on the ice and I think that means having Couturier, Schenn and Walker on the Flyers.


Last edited by FlyersFan61290: 10-05-2011 at 09:47 AM.
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Old
10-05-2011, 10:10 AM
  #117
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Gotta believe Betts gets claimed. He's a low cap hit and a solid 4th liner, even with his injuries and age. There's gotta be a team out there that would take a chance on him. He would be a good fit in Minnesota's system and as far as I can tell from looking at their roster (haven't watched them in preseason, obviously) but it looks like they could use a 4th line center. Guess we'll see in about an hour.

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Old
10-05-2011, 11:32 AM
  #118
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Mtl got betts. That opens up the spot for cooter

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10-05-2011, 11:45 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
I have bad news on Schenn. According to someone on the main board the 25 games bonus simply does not exist. He claims that Dreger has no clue what is going on. Apparently sending down Schenn does nothing whatsoever to his cap hit. There are two more likely scenarios.

1. Schenn spends the year in the AHL.
2. Schenn is sent down and recalled multiple times throughout the season which creates a few thousand in cap space. Something that the hawks used to do with Jack Skille.

Other than that we drop Couturier and bring Schenn up after 9 games.

God damnit! Just when I was getting my hopes up!
Um.....

Fact: Bonuses count against the cap until they are unreachable.

All people need to do is read Schenn's contract to find out when such contracts become unreachable.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the people making these claims both have access to the contract and can read.

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