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Lombardi Playing Tonight: Re-Evaluating the Trade?

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Old
10-05-2011, 07:20 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
It's not a popular opinion, but I expect Bergfors to be more Marek Svatos than Sergei Kostitsyn. I expect him on waivers and gone before Xmas.
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Honestly, I've had visions of Svatos running through my head since we got Bergfors. Hopefully both of us are wrong, but I tend to agree.
and as long as Wilson progresses like it appears he will based on preseason and especially if Smith is for real then Bergfors is just depth anyway.

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10-05-2011, 08:18 AM
  #102
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and as long as Wilson progresses like it appears he will based on preseason and especially if Smith is for real then Bergfors is just depth anyway.
The problem is that Bergfors was signed for a reason, and many, Poile included, trumpeted it as "this season's SK." We have enough of an offensive deficiency that Smith and Wilson producing doesn't automatically make the need for Bergfors to succeed go away...realistically, we need all three to produce.

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10-05-2011, 08:26 AM
  #103
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Then again when SK got off to a slow start last year everyone wrote him off too.
I didn't. Kostitsyn showed flashes in camp\preseason. It was clear the shape his foot was in after taking the Franson shot.

Bergfors came in with a reputation for being a floater that was terrible whenever he didn't have the puck-- and that's what he's looked like.

I want to be wrong...but I don't have a good feeling about it.

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10-05-2011, 08:45 AM
  #104
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I think we are writing Bergfors off too quickly. Let's not forget he has had a pair of pretty good seasons. two years ago he had 24 goals. That would be TOP of our team last year. Even with a less than awesome campaign last season (36 points) he still would've been above Colin wilson in points and 7th on the team in scoring. He also SHOOTS the puck a lot and seems to really enjoy it here and has bought into the system.

I, for one, believe bergfors is going to have a 40+ year

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10-05-2011, 09:00 AM
  #105
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But if Bergfors doesn't hold his own in the defensive end then he ends up costing us an addition 5 or 10 goals during the season, that 24 goals isn't as impressive.

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10-05-2011, 09:01 AM
  #106
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If we kept Lombardi, where would he play? He's not as good as Legwand, Fisher, he's not the banger or pker that Smithson is, would he replace O'Reilly or Spalling or Geoffrion?

Would you really want to spend 3.5m on a player that's getting 12 minutes a night?

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10-05-2011, 09:02 AM
  #107
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But if Bergfors doesn't hold his own in the defensive end then he ends up costing us an addition 5 or 10 goals during the season, that 24 goals isn't as impressive.


Spoken like a true defenseman.

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10-05-2011, 09:02 AM
  #108
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okay to clear up some confusion here:

franson is the 7th dman because burke refuses to get rid of komisarek. he was always going to be in our 3rd pairing anyway because the right side is our strongest with two of our best dmen playing that side (if you don't know the 2 then it shows how little you know)

tl;dr franson being sat is not a skill-issue. we have no complaints about him as a player or this trade, at all.

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10-05-2011, 09:19 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by vezna View Post
okay to clear up some confusion here:

franson is the 7th dman because burke refuses to get rid of komisarek. he was always going to be in our 3rd pairing anyway because the right side is our strongest with two of our best dmen playing that side (if you don't know the 2 then it shows how little you know)

tl;dr franson being sat is not a skill-issue. we have no complaints about him as a player or this trade, at all.
Not sure where you think there's confusion. He's a 7th dman. Regardless of who or why, he's starting in the box.

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10-05-2011, 09:29 AM
  #110
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then try reading the entire thread. people are bringing up his skating and limited defensive capability. from what we've seen in the preseason, he is what most of us expected. and most of us are upset he's being sat out.

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10-05-2011, 09:37 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
If we kept Lombardi, where would he play? He's not as good as Legwand, Fisher, he's not the banger or pker that Smithson is, would he replace O'Reilly or Spalling or Geoffrion?

Would you really want to spend 3.5m on a player that's getting 12 minutes a night?
i don't think anyone is upset about Lombardi being gone....just how it was executed.

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10-05-2011, 09:56 AM
  #112
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then try reading the entire thread. people are bringing up his skating and limited defensive capability. from what we've seen in the preseason, he is what most of us expected. and most of us are upset he's being sat out.
That's nice he had a good preseason, but I'd trust the fans who have watched him for at least an entire season. Most of what I've read is a projected bottom pairing D with (maybe) a middle pairing ceiling.

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10-05-2011, 10:16 AM
  #113
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I"ve said all along that Franson is better than some around here are giving credit for. If you're a Preds fan and saying he is what he is now...a seventh d-man...you're crazy. He's, right now, a good bottom pairing d-man...number 6 and second PP unit guy. I don't think he's going to get much better than he is now because the areas that hold him back--skating and mobility...aren't really something you can fix...but he should be a fine number 5/6 for years to come.

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10-05-2011, 10:29 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
I"ve said all along that Franson is better than some around here are giving credit for. If you're a Preds fan and saying he is what he is now...a seventh d-man...you're crazy. He's, right now, a good bottom pairing d-man...number 6 and second PP unit guy. I don't think he's going to get much better than he is now because the areas that hold him back--skating and mobility...aren't really something you can fix...but he should be a fine number 5/6 for years to come.
Completely agree. We'll miss his shot on the powerplay for sure. He scored some big goals for us.

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10-05-2011, 10:32 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by vezna View Post
okay to clear up some confusion here:

franson is the 7th dman because burke refuses to get rid of komisarek. he was always going to be in our 3rd pairing anyway because the right side is our strongest with two of our best dmen playing that side (if you don't know the 2 then it shows how little you know)
tl;dr franson being sat is not a skill-issue. we have no complaints about him as a player or this trade, at all.
way to come in and live up to the elitist sterotype there....

It is a skill issue with Franson. I don't want to bash the guy too much anymore, but his defensive skills are keeping him out of the lineup. The fact is, he isn't as good as Schenn, Phaneuf, or liles (who has his own issues defensively) He got passed by a rookie for a spot in the lineup, and apparantly couldn't outplay gunnerson or the guy who seems to be the TML current whipping boy in komiserek.

To show how little some nashville fans know, lets look at another reason franson is in the pressbox. you penalty kill. Generally have to have 4 guys that play the PK. Toronto has Schenn, Dion and I guess last year used a mishmash of guys. I assume Gunnerson will man one of the spots. So it has to do with the 4th spot on the pk. Is it Gardiner? It isn't liles. So you have to have a guy who you know can step in on the pk. Komiserek over Franson in a landslide there.

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10-05-2011, 10:54 AM
  #116
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way to come in and live up to the elitist sterotype there....

It is a skill issue with Franson. I don't want to bash the guy too much anymore, but his defensive skills are keeping him out of the lineup. The fact is, he isn't as good as Schenn, Phaneuf, or liles (who has his own issues defensively) He got passed by a rookie for a spot in the lineup, and apparantly couldn't outplay gunnerson or the guy who seems to be the TML current whipping boy in komiserek.

To show how little some nashville fans know, lets look at another reason franson is in the pressbox. you penalty kill. Generally have to have 4 guys that play the PK. Toronto has Schenn, Dion and I guess last year used a mishmash of guys. I assume Gunnerson will man one of the spots. So it has to do with the 4th spot on the pk. Is it Gardiner? It isn't liles. So you have to have a guy who you know can step in on the pk. Komiserek over Franson in a landslide there.
why comment if you don't know how the Leafs play?

if you're a natural RHD, Wilson is not going to play you in the left side. the only exception to this is Phaneuf and that's because he's a LHD who plays on the right side for his shot. so you bringing up Liles, Gardiner, and Gunnarsson (all left handers, playing on the left side) is just clueless.

the only dmen competing with Franson are Schenn, Phaneuf and Komisarek. Of this, Komisarek is worse. And no, Komisarek isn't a good PKer. There were four dmen ahead of Komi in PK time last season.

you have no idea how terrible Komisarek is. please, stop. even if you argue that they're on equal level, Komisarek is making FIVE times Franson's caphit. so same skill (false), but one with $4.5M hit vs $800k who do you play?

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10-05-2011, 11:07 AM
  #117
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you have no idea how terrible Komisarek is. please, stop. even if you argue that they're on equal level, Komisarek is making FIVE times Franson's caphit. so same skill (false), but one with $4.5M hit vs $800k who do you play?
If I don't want to look bad because I traded Kubina for Exelby in order to sign Komisarek?

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10-05-2011, 11:30 AM
  #118
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Ah... you know what I was thinking earlier? I was thinking that this topic needed yet another condescending voice adding fuel to the fire. I got on HF Boards to be pleasantly surprised. Not only was that extra voice introduced, but it's someone who is a fan of an entirely different team judging how much (read: little) we poor folks down here in Redneckville know about hockey.

By the way, vezna, one sentence fragment and two sentences doesn't require the "tl;dr" summary. We read here



Franson is what he is. He is a big, offensive minded defenseman with some defensive ability, but nothing that will blow you away. He can hold his own provided he can stay in position. His mobility makes him look bad, though. If someone can get behind him, he isn't getting control of the play back. If he turns the puck over on the blueline a breakaway is likely to happen. He hasn't been known to use his size, but that seemed to change in the play offs so maybe he learned. He has a habit of fishing a bit too much since he has such a long reach. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it serves to get him out of position. Sometimes he takes a penalty. That's pretty much typical of anyone who likes to use his stick (except maybe Datsyuk).

At the end of the day Franson is the #7 defenseman on a blueline that isn't nearly as good as ours. It doesn't matter why. Maybe it's just terrible management (that would be shocking...). Maybe Wilson thinks he would have to protect Franson's minutes like they were protected in Nashville, but without a top 4 as stacked as ours he doesn't have that luxury. Maybe Wilson starting crying, like he is prone to do, and Franson stupidly offered him a tissue. Who knows? Who cares?

And I have broken my rule by posting in this thread a second time... thanks vezna

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10-05-2011, 01:12 PM
  #119
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why comment if you don't know how the Leafs play? Because I can? Because I gave a reason as to why franson is in the pressbox and you chose to ignore it to continue to spew anti-komi rhetoric?

if you're a natural RHD, Wilson is not going to play you in the left side. the only exception to this is Phaneuf and that's because he's a LHD who plays on the right side for his shot. so you bringing up Liles, Gardiner, and Gunnarsson (all left handers, playing on the left side) is just clueless. Maybe wilson should adapt to the talent he has then, eh?

the only dmen competing with Franson are Schenn, Phaneuf and Komisarek. Of this, Komisarek is worse. And no, Komisarek isn't a good PKer. There were four dmen ahead of Komi in PK time last season. I do not think Franson is competing with the first two at all, since they are top 4 dman. Komisarek, yes, and the Leafs org think Franson is not one of the best 6 dmen they have to round out the d corp there.

you have no idea how terrible Komisarek is. please, stop. even if you argue that they're on equal level, Komisarek is making FIVE times Franson's caphit. so same skill (false), but one with $4.5M hit vs $800k who do you play? you are right, I don't know how bad he is. But probably because I don't think he is as bad as what leaf fans make him out to be, and by most accounts, has had a decent preseason.
again, I was addressing the Toronto PK as a possible reason for Franson's seat in the pressbox. Please enlighten me with an elitist approach that shows me the way to true understanding of who is playing the pk in Toronto. And again, please do it a way the is demeaning to Nashville fans so that we "get" it. You kow, since we know nothing about hockey here.

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10-05-2011, 01:46 PM
  #120
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no idea why you're playing the pity party when i'm only saying you are clueless about the state of blueline in Toronto. not everyone can know about everything about every team. nothing about you being ignorant of hockey or whatever fallacy you're trying to play out.

i watched komisarek for two seasons in TO while you saw him this pre-season and yet you think you know better. i give you numbers and facts, you refute them with self-depreciating sarcasm and useless opinion. i'm obviously fighting a losing battle here.

i understand it sucks to be in the losing end of a trade, but it doesn't mean it's any less pathetic to keep throwing dirt at the asset you lost. deal with it and move on, don't play the part of the jilted ex. anyway, i'm done with this thread.

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10-05-2011, 01:57 PM
  #121
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no idea why you're playing the pity party when i'm only saying you are clueless about the state of blueline in Toronto. not everyone can know about everything about every team. nothing about you being ignorant of hockey or whatever fallacy you're trying to play out.

i watched komisarek for two seasons in TO while you saw him this pre-season and yet you think you know better. i give you numbers and facts, you refute them with self-depreciating sarcasm and useless opinion. i'm obviously fighting a losing battle here.

i understand it sucks to be in the losing end of a trade, but it doesn't mean it's any less pathetic to keep throwing dirt at the asset you lost. deal with it and move on, don't play the part of the jilted ex. anyway, i'm done with this thread.
Wow, you're really defensive.

Look, you can put lipstick on it all you want, but Franson is your #7 D-man. There ya go.

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10-05-2011, 01:57 PM
  #122
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Some around here don't think we came out on the losing end of that trade

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10-05-2011, 02:02 PM
  #123
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Completely agree. We'll miss his shot on the powerplay for sure. He scored some big goals for us.
(2g - 7a) 9 PPP in 92 games played isn't anything to brag about

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10-05-2011, 02:55 PM
  #124
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i watched komisarek for two seasons in TO while you saw him this pre-season and yet you think you know better. i give you numbers and facts
.
I never watched him in Montreal I guess. Or when he was the hottest FA dman a few years ago. Or when he got banged up early and didn't recover because he played through his injuries, or tried to anyway. What stats, or numbers did you give to compare them? Salary? Is that all there is to making roster decisions? toronto showed they are willing to send money to the AHL (finger), so that rebukes that theory.

And Some of us are thrilled to be rid of Lombardis 7 million bucks this year and next and Fransons close to million and rfa contract next summer, for what, a buyout, an ahl/echl guy and the ability to put a more talented guy in that 6 spot? i don't want to say that not knowing all the facts about our situation classifies anyone as clueless or ignorant, but it is what it is

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10-05-2011, 03:08 PM
  #125
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And Some of us are thrilled to be rid of Lombardis 7 million bucks this year and next and Fransons close to million and rfa contract next summer, for what, a buyout, an ahl/echl guy and the ability to put a more talented guy in that 6 spot?
Until (If ever) we put his money back into the team, I think the only people thrilled to get rid of Lombos $7 million are the owners.

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