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Canucks waive F Victor Oreskovich(UPD: Clears), claim F Dale Weise from NYR

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Old
10-05-2011, 11:41 AM
  #251
jimmythescot
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I'm astonished he got that far. I guess a few teams are hoping for a good draft pick rather than a good season.

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10-05-2011, 11:52 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Reason why I didn't hold it against Bertuzzi for getting suspended during the *regular season* for coming off the bench when he thought Jovo was overmatched in his fight with another player (forget who the guy was).
It was Scott Parker.

Anyway, I'd bet that a big thing against Oreskovich, from the coaching standpoint, is probably also a big part of why so many people seem so mad that he has been replaced: He's huge and he skates like the wind.

Oreskovich should be SO MUCH MORE. Instead, he's just kind of there taking up space. This drives coaches absolutely insane. This is a guy that could be an absolute game-changer if he ever got a sense of desperation into his head, and I'd guess that the Canucks have decided that there's little chance of him ever getting that urgency and are going with a guy that is willing to do whatever it takes instead.

Oreskovich plays like a really nice guy that can't switch into "helmet on - brain off" mode. He obviously knows what he has to do, and every once in a while he'll crush someone and get mean for a second, but it's just not there. On top of this, Weise has also basically outproduced him at every level.

A normal-sized guy that doesn't skate well but gets his job done is better than a huge guy that skates like Paul Coffey and does nothing with it.

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10-05-2011, 11:57 AM
  #253
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Not too surprised on Betts; he's on the downside of his career. According to Flyers fans he hasn't been the same since his dislocated shoulder (in the dot or physically). Legs are starting to go, still a solid PKer due to experience, but I'd way rather have a guy like Lapierre.

I mentioned this in the Around the League thread, but Phoenix just waived Brett MacLean, if we want to fill the ache left by Grabner, this is the guy. Prolific OHL scorer, back-to-back 30-goal pace AHL seasons, turning 23 this year.

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10-05-2011, 12:01 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Weise put up 28 goals in the AHL as a 21 year old. Oreskovich has 10 goals in 70 AHL games as a 23-24 year old.

I would say Weise has a hell of a lot more upside than the 25 year old Oreskovich.
Yeah, I think that some people are really ignoring his AHL output. He would have been 3rd on the Moose in goals last year, and 4th in points, despite only playing 47 games.

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10-05-2011, 12:08 PM
  #255
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Yayyyyyy. And we have more depth!

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10-05-2011, 12:14 PM
  #256
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I wish people who haven't actually seen Weise play would stop commenting on his play. He is not a terrible skater and would be described as an average skater AT WORST. He hits more than Oreskovich and has more offensive upside and younger.

People are also commenting that he's a bad fighter... so is Oreskovich, but Weise will drop them more often if needed.

He's not Raymond fast, but he's certianly not Hodgson/Sedin slow either.

He's shown at every level that he's far hungrier to succeed than Oreskovich, who actually quit hockey because he wasn't motivated to play any more. How does someone that young lose motivation to play in the NHL?!?!

He's certainly an upgrade on Oreskovich.

I think he and Lapierre are a great foundation for a much improved 4th line. I think Volpatti, Pinizotto and Weise will all fight for the 2 wing positions with Lapierre at C all year.

No question that those three are an upgrade on Glass "Miss an open net in SCF" and Oreo.


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10-05-2011, 12:20 PM
  #257
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Yeah, I think that some people are really ignoring his AHL output. He would have been 3rd on the Moose in goals last year, and 4th in points, despite only playing 47 games.
Agree, I dont think 28 goals is that impressive in the AHL for a 28 year old, but for a 21 year old it's not that bad at all.

The fact that lots of teams passed on him doesn't mean much to me either. There are lots of considerations to take into account there. People just don't take on 4th line players contracts without a very good reason and need. It seemed like a good fit.

Who knows, for his playing style and the new coach and teammates a change of scenery might be just what the doctor ordered. He is young and this IS despite how the thread sounds, a 4th line position he is expected to fill.

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10-05-2011, 12:38 PM
  #258
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Agree, I dont think 28 goals is that impressive in the AHL for a 28 year old, but for a 21 year old it's not that bad at all.

The fact that lots of teams passed on him doesn't mean much to me either. There are lots of considerations to take into account there. People just don't take on 4th line players contracts without a very good reason and need. It seemed like a good fit.

Who knows, for his playing style and the new coach and teammates a change of scenery might be just what the doctor ordered. He is young and this IS despite how the thread sounds, a 4th line position he is expected to fill.
I'm just becoming a little cynical I guess after getting excited about all the fourth liners invited to camp who failed to impress. I'm really hoping that Weise is the guy who can fill that role. I'm just not getting my hopes up yet. The AHL numbers are encouraging though. Ok, I'm starting to get my hopes up again.


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10-05-2011, 12:48 PM
  #259
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I'm still not sold on the fourth line. Lapierre is a great fourth line center and Pinizzotto showed some promise. The fact that 7 teams were after his services leads me to believe that there is something there. We will see on Weise whether he just another Duco, Mancari, Oreskovich, Volpatti type or whether there is more there. Initial reports are encouraging as at least he scored in the AHL but we shall see.

In my view, a solid fourth line is critical for the follwing reasons:
1. A fourth line that can play 10 to 11 minutes a night lets you lighten the workload of your top 3 lines. In the grind that is the playoffs that is critical as the top players tend to get injured and worn down as we saw last year. In my view, scoring is a bonus as long as the fourth liners can create energy and play well defensively.
2. You need players from your fourth line who can move up the line up in case of injury. We saw last year what a bonus it was to have Lapierre who could easily fill in on the third line witout sacrificing quality on that line. When Raymond and Kesler come back then I think that we will have fourth liners who can fulfill that role. The problem, of course, is that you can never count on being healthy.

I think that we may see Gillis target an experienced fourth line player at the trade deadline this year in order to ice a more effective fourth line come the playoffs.
*pulls hair out*

Why should anyone be sold on the 4th line? We're having big injury problems. It's like being unsatisfied with Sturm - Hodgson - Samuelsson and being like "that's not going to cut it in the playoffs". It just comes off as spoiled. NOBODY stocks up on enough depth that after sustaining two injuries, you still have three guys on your 4th line that are Lapierre-level, it just doesn't make any sense.

Our 4th line could be

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Sturm - Kesler - Samuelsson
Higgins - Hodgson - Raymond

Lapierre - Malhotra - Hansen
Weise
Pinizotto
Oreskovich
Bitz
Duco

within a few months.

Even if we didn't have injuries, Weise - Lapierre - Pinizotto could possibly be a very strong 4th line-- In fact, any 4th line with Lapierre on it isn't worth complaining about.

I don't mean to lash out on you but I keep hearing complaints about the current fourth line over and over (even though it looks better than anything we've had in years) as if it were a huge pressing concern and an example of Gillis doing an inadequate job or something and it doesn't make any sense.

Edit: I read your post again and it doesn't seem like you're trashing the 4th line so much, but the point still stands for other people!


Last edited by Shareefruck: 10-05-2011 at 01:00 PM.
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Old
10-05-2011, 01:02 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
*pulls hair out*

Why should anyone be sold on the 4th line? We're having big injury problems. It's like being unsatisfied with Sturm - Hodgson - Samuelsson and being like "that's not going to cut it in the playoffs". It just comes off as spoiled. NOBODY stocks up on enough depth that after sustaining two injuries, you still have three guys on your 4th line that are Lapierre-level, it just doesn't make any sense.

Our 4th line could be

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Sturm - Kesler - Samuelsson
Higgins - Hodgson - Raymond

Lapierre - Malhotra - Hansen
Weise
Pinizotto
Oreskovich
Bitz
Duco

within a few months.

Hell, even if we didn't have injuries, Weise - Lapierre - Pinizotto could possibly be a very strong 4th line-- In fact, any 4th line with Lapierre on it isn't worth complaining about.

I don't mean to lash out on you but I keep hearing this over and over again as if it were a huge pressing concern and an example of Gillis doing an inadequate job or something and it doesn't make any sense.

/rant
I disagree that we're having injury problems. We're missing Kesler and Raymond. When they get back we will be missing a couple of more players based on past experience. Last year we were missing Samuellson and Malhotra going into the playoffs. On defence, if we lose someone we have enough depth that Rome and Alberst can step up and Sulzer appears serviceable. We should be built so that we always can react if two or three players are hurt. As last year's playoff run showed depth at every position is important and a fourth line that can play 10 or 11 minutes helps reduce the wear and tear on our key players.
I'm not critcizing Gillis on this as I believe the fact that he claimed Weise and waived Oreskovich shows that he agrees we were too weak on the fourth line. I expect he will still make another move. We have the cap space and Gillis is a very smart GM.

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10-05-2011, 01:27 PM
  #261
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I agree, if we can keep a serviceable 4th line that won't cost us then we can play them 11mins a night later in the season and rest our top 2 lines a bit more.

If everyone is healthy and Hodgson sticks on either the 2nd or 3rd line, then were left with....

Higgins-LaPierre-Hansen

That was our 3rd line for much of last post season, and they played great. Even if we have an injury and Hansen or Higgins moves up we still have Weise waiting to play. Plus, I'd be quite shocked if Gillis didn't pick up even MORE depth at the deadline, or a larger acquisition to push depth further down the line-up.

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10-05-2011, 01:28 PM
  #262
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I disagree that we're having injury problems. We're missing Kesler and Raymond. When they get back we will be missing a couple of more players based on past experience. Last year we were missing Samuellson and Malhotra going into the playoffs. On defence, if we lose someone we have enough depth that Rome and Alberst can step up and Sulzer appears serviceable. We should be built so that we always can react if two or three players are hurt. As last year's playoff run showed depth at every position is important and a fourth line that can play 10 or 11 minutes helps reduce the wear and tear on our key players.
I'm not critcizing Gillis on this as I believe the fact that he claimed Weise and waived Oreskovich shows that he agrees we were too weak on the fourth line. I expect he will still make another move. We have the cap space and Gillis is a very smart GM.
I'm really glad Oreo cleared waivers. You know you have depth in your organization when the GM ranks a player like Oreo 14-15 on the forward depth chart.

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10-05-2011, 01:36 PM
  #263
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I agree, if we can keep a serviceable 4th line that won't cost us then we can play them 11mins a night later in the season and rest our top 2 lines a bit more.

If everyone is healthy and Hodgson sticks on either the 2nd or 3rd line, then were left with....

Higgins-LaPierre-Hansen


That was our 3rd line for much of last post season, and they played great. Even if we have an injury and Hansen or Higgins moves up we still have Weise waiting to play. Plus, I'd be quite shocked if Gillis didn't pick up even MORE depth at the deadline, or a larger acquisition to push depth further down the line-up.
Good God. I wasn't too confident heading into this season, but that would be insane.

The only real question marks are whether Ballard can fill a lot of what Ehrhoff brought us (except when things started getting tough) and whether Sturm can handle the rough and tumble of the playoffs. Especially with the extra travel associated with playing for this team.

For the record, I believe that with a larger role Ballard will live up to his price tag.

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10-05-2011, 01:37 PM
  #264
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I agree, if we can keep a serviceable 4th line that won't cost us then we can play them 11mins a night later in the season and rest our top 2 lines a bit more.

If everyone is healthy and Hodgson sticks on either the 2nd or 3rd line, then were left with....

Higgins-LaPierre-Hansen

That was our 3rd line for much of last post season, and they played great. Even if we have an injury and Hansen or Higgins moves up we still have Weise waiting to play. Plus, I'd be quite shocked if Gillis didn't pick up even MORE depth at the deadline, or a larger acquisition to push depth further down the line-up.
Agreed. If Gillis could target a player who can play second or third line minutes we would really be in great shape.I understand that in a cap world it's tough not to have a couple of holes. It just seems that this year if Hodgson sticks we could really end up with some great depth by using our cap space at the trade deadline. I guess the question is whether he uses that for a forward or defenceman. I remember him saying that he wants to have 10 defencemen who can be called on to play. We've got a solid 8 defencemen and then Sulzer and Sauve for injuries so we may be set there already.

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10-05-2011, 01:38 PM
  #265
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Plus, I'd be quite shocked if Gillis didn't pick up even MORE depth at the deadline, or a larger acquisition to push depth further down the line-up.
I think the only depth they will add will be on defense.
Once everyone is healthy, our extra forwards will be Hodgson (unless he plays very well and sticks with the team), Oreo, Bitz, Volpatti, Ebbett, Pinizzotto, Duco, and Mancari. Maybe even Schroeder could be added to list. On defense, we have Sulzer in the AHL.

I'm thinking Gillis will be looking for a star forward with who can stand up for himself. And maybe a veteran top 4 defenseman.

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10-05-2011, 01:46 PM
  #266
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I think the only depth they will add will be on defense.
Once everyone is healthy, our extra forwards will be Hodgson (unless he plays very well and sticks with the team), Oreo, Bitz, Volpatti, Ebbett, Pinizzotto, Duco, and Mancari. Maybe even Schroeder could be added to list. On defense, we have Sulzer in the AHL.

I'm thinking Gillis will be looking for a star forward with who can stand up for himself. And maybe a veteran top 4 defenseman.
I concur. If Vigneault is looking to upgrade the forward group this year he won't add more depth, instead he'll package some of that depth for an upgrade.

2 Roster Forwards+Draft Pick=Winger for Kesler?

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10-05-2011, 01:52 PM
  #267
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Lots of people in this thread are complaining that Weise is a terrible fighter, I watched some of his fights and hes not that great at fighting but at least he will drop the mits and stick up for his teammates which is more than i can say about Oreskovich.

Here is a video where Oreskovich has a shift with the Sedins in the playoffs. The other two players on the ice are Ballard and Ehrhoff. Oreskovich is not only the biggest Canuck on the ice hes the biggest player on the ice at 6'3 220, McQuaid is 6'4 but is only listed at 197. At the end of the shift Brad Marchand clotheslines Ehrhoff, then throws a cheap hip check at the Art Ross winner and its Ballard who immediately jumps in to fight Marchand. Oreskovich glides into the scrum looking disinterested and stands beside Chris Kelly. Mcquaid the proceeds to grab Ehrhoff who is not tough, one of are best defense, and who was battling a shoulder injury. While McQuaid throws a few punches while Ehrhoff turtles Oreskovich makes no attempt to get over to McQuaid and stick up for his teammate. I bet if Dale Weise or Volpatti were on the ice instead they would have jumped in to help out their teammates or at least made an attempt to.



I should also not that Oreskovich has fought McQuaid before and lost. He was forced into the fight by McQuaid after taking a run at him. Maybe loosing the previous fight played a factor into him not wanting to fight.

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10-05-2011, 02:01 PM
  #268
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Lots of people in this thread are complaining that Weise is a terrible fighter, I watched some of his fights and hes not that great at fighting but at least he will drop the mits and stick up for his teammates which is more than i can say about Oreskovich.

Here is a video where Oreskovich has a shift with the Sedins in the playoffs. The other two players on the ice are Ballard and Ehrhoff. Oreskovich is not only the biggest Canuck on the ice hes the biggest player on the ice at 6'3 220, McQuaid is 6'4 but is only listed at 197. At the end of the shift Brad Marchand clotheslines Ehrhoff, then throws a cheap hip check at the Art Ross winner and its Ballard who immediately jumps in to fight Marchand. Oreskovich glides into the scrum looking disinterested and stands beside Chris Kelly. Mcquaid the proceeds to grab Ehrhoff who is not tough, one of are best defense, and who was battling a shoulder injury. While McQuaid throws a few punches while Ehrhoff turtles Oreskovich makes no attempt to get over to McQuaid and stick up for his teammate. I bet if Dale Weise or Volpatti were on the ice instead they would have jumped in to help out their teammates or at least made an attempt to.



I should also not that Oreskovich has fought McQuaid before and lost. He was forced into the fight by McQuaid after taking a run at him. Maybe loosing the previous fight played a factor into him not wanting to fight.
I don't care if we lose the regular season game to Boston this year 10-0. I just want AV to dress a full goon roster and beat the **** out of Marchand everytime he steps onto the ice.

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10-05-2011, 02:16 PM
  #269
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Lots of people in this thread are complaining that Weise is a terrible fighter, I watched some of his fights and hes not that great at fighting but at least he will drop the mits and stick up for his teammates which is more than i can say about Oreskovich.
Great link. Also worth noting that it's only after all the ugliness is over in that clip that Oreskovich starts chirping.

He wasn't willing to play the role required. With all the recent business about the mental toll "being the tough guy" takes on players, I don't want to blame him; unfortunately, being tough is what the team needed from him and what he couldn't deliver.

I think it speaks volumes about other tryouts like Duco that they failed to win a spot over Oreskovich, given past instances such as the one you've linked to. Those experiments were failures.

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10-05-2011, 02:30 PM
  #270
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Great link. Also worth noting that it's only after all the ugliness is over in that clip that Oreskovich starts chirping.

He wasn't willing to play the role required. With all the recent business about the mental toll "being the tough guy" takes on players, I don't want to blame him; unfortunately, being tough is what the team needed from him and what he couldn't deliver.

I think it speaks volumes about other tryouts like Duco that they failed to win a spot over Oreskovich, given past instances such as the one you've linked to. Those experiments were failures.
To be fair to Oreo - in that clip, Ballard was the closest player to Marchand and had his gloves offs almost before Daniel hit the ice. Oreo didn't really have a chance to get into that one without taking a 3rd man in penalty. However he SHOULD have taken McQuaid rather than letting Ehrhoff do it.

Personally, I don't care if someone is a good fighter or not. But a 4th line player who is 230lbs has to have far more game than that.

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10-05-2011, 02:34 PM
  #271
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Good Winnipeg boy.


@benkuzma
Canucks winger Weise: "It's great to be somewhere you're wanted, more than the four years in New York. What a difference."

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10-05-2011, 04:16 PM
  #272
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This kid could be a fan favorite if his play is as likable as his quotes.

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10-05-2011, 04:23 PM
  #273
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Good Winnipeg boy.


@benkuzma
Canucks winger Weise: "It's great to be somewhere you're wanted, more than the four years in New York. What a difference."
Does playing in Chicago count as being wanted or does he have a legitimate role on the team?

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10-05-2011, 04:23 PM
  #274
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To be fair to Oreo - in that clip, Ballard was the closest player to Marchand and had his gloves offs almost before Daniel hit the ice. Oreo didn't really have a chance to get into that one without taking a 3rd man in penalty. However he SHOULD have taken McQuaid rather than letting Ehrhoff do it.

Personally, I don't care if someone is a good fighter or not. But a 4th line player who is 230lbs has to have far more game than that.
Sometimes you have to do what you have to do - and at that point in the game, like the end result was hardly in question. Who cares about getting a 3rd man in penalty when the game is essentially over (and it's hardly like a game suspension for starting a fight then would be a problem for the Canucks). When a player tries to injure one of your teammates, you should react.


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10-05-2011, 04:29 PM
  #275
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Does playing in Chicago count as being wanted or does he have a legitimate role on the team?
Well he's starting tomorrow, so he has a spot on the team unless he plays himself off the roster. Quite a bit of faith from the organization; I mean they displaced a guy who played in the SCF, and apparently won the spot out of camp to accomodate Weise.

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