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The Sean Couturier dilemma

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Old
10-01-2011, 07:26 PM
  #151
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He doesn't have Eric Staal's explosive skating ability.

From what I've seen so far, Ron Francis is the best comparison. Good size, okay skater, good defensively, good playmaker, nothing flashy.

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10-01-2011, 07:50 PM
  #152
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Double post

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10-01-2011, 07:59 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
He doesn't have Eric Staal's explosive skating ability.

From what I've seen so far, Ron Francis is the best comparison. Good size, okay skater, good defensively, good playmaker, nothing flashy.
Francis is second all time in assists and fourth in points so if he's anything like Francis I would be very happy with that.


Last edited by Midnight Oil: 10-01-2011 at 08:04 PM.
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10-01-2011, 11:19 PM
  #154
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RT @tpanotchCSN: source says Couturier did "nothing" to play himself off roster; i think Schenn (inj) starts season w/Phantoms

http://anthonysintheroom.blogspot.com/

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-Couturier beats out Brayden Schenn, who was limited in camp by a shoulder injury. Schenn can be sent to the AHL for what would be an extended camp of sorts while Couturier either has to stick or go back to Drummondville of the QMJHL. The Flyers will at least give him nine games, but I'm betting he sticks. The coaches love his maturity.

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10-01-2011, 11:47 PM
  #155
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Kinda sucks that the key piece in the Richards trade may not make the team, but at least it's because someone earned it and not Schenn not being ready for the big leagues

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10-02-2011, 12:28 AM
  #156
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Still not sold on schenn. I like the kid, and he has a lot of talent, but I have just not been impressed with anything he's done in camp or the exhibitions his played in. He just doesn't at all look like a player who should be considered a lock or given the 3rd line C position. Couturier has shown he wants it more, and he's willing to work as hard as it takes. That alone makes me say give it to couturier. He deserves an extended look, at the very least. Give schenn some time to get his **** together.

I would just think that the apparent "top prospect in hockey" who's had at least a little experience in both the NHL and the AHL, and who's been to an NHL training camp before, would be playing like he belongs there. He has not IMO.

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10-02-2011, 01:57 AM
  #157
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Schenn will be on the opening night roster, in the third centre, where he belongs.

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10-02-2011, 02:36 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by CountDownToImpact View Post
Francis is second all time in assists and fourth in points so if he's anything like Francis I would be very happy with that.
Francis was a very good player for a long time, but he wasn't as good as those final rankings seem to indicate.

He played forever during the highest scoring era in the NHL. The only period of his career that he ever put up elite numbers was his time in Pittsburgh.

That's because he routinely played with Jagr (top 10 all-time offensive player) and shared a power play with Mario (top two all-time offensive player).

Francis was Rod Brind'amour with a little more offense, a little less defense, that played in the ultimate offensive era.

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10-02-2011, 02:44 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Schenn will be on the opening night roster, in the third centre, where he belongs.
It's not that simple. To this point he's been outplayed by Couturier.

Also as tight as we are against the cap his $3+ million cap hit works against him.

If his cap hit was the same as Couturier's, then he would certainly be in the lineup opening night (assuming he's healthy).

As of now without moving a piece like Hartnell, we're better served with Schenn spending 20-40 games with the Phantoms.

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10-02-2011, 02:49 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Schenn will be on the opening night roster, in the third centre, where he belongs.
I have to disagree!

Schenn is 20 YO and Couturier will be 19 very soon.

If, as fans report and it is accurate, Couturier outplayed Schenn at camp, I see no reason why Couturier would not be the 3rd line centerman to start the season and for the whole season.
Having followed him closely in the Q, I can tell you that his defensive game is very good, that his puck control, his hockey sense and his faceoff skills offset altogether his skating and physical strength....he will win his battles along the wall.

There is nothing wrong in sending Schenn to Adirondack.

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10-02-2011, 09:01 AM
  #161
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even if schenn is sent down i don't see him spending a lot of time there. i grantee he is on this team before the allstar break. tim p also reported in the article above that the extra cap from sending down schenn would not only allow the flyers to keep couturier but rinaldo & walker too. so my question is who goes to clear cap? flyers have to make a move imo. hope its not hartnell or carle but i really don't see another choice at this point.

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10-02-2011, 09:17 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Francis was a very good player for a long time, but he wasn't as good as those final rankings seem to indicate.

He played forever during the highest scoring era in the NHL. The only period of his career that he ever put up elite numbers was his time in Pittsburgh.

That's because he routinely played with Jagr (top 10 all-time offensive player) and shared a power play with Mario (top two all-time offensive player).

Francis was Rod Brind'amour with a little more offense, a little less defense, that played in the ultimate offensive era.
Francis was just as good defensively as Brind'Amour was.

I don't get why people underrate Ron Francis for. He was everything that a team would want in a hockey player. He could score, he could defend, he could play in all situations and he had incredible hockey sense. If that's Couturier, sign me up.

Francis averaged 78 points a season for his career. As for "the only period of his career that he ever put elite numbers was his time in Pittsburgh", you might want to check that again. He put up elite numbers on a real bad Hartford team as well.

Ron Francis was a very good hockey player and he had the ability to make others around him better players. Not a lot of players have that kind of ability.

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10-02-2011, 09:31 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Francis was just as good defensively as Brind'Amour was.

I don't get why people underrate Ron Francis for. He was everything that a team would want in a hockey player. He could score, he could defend, he could play in all situations and he had incredible hockey sense. If that's Couturier, sign me up.

Francis averaged 78 points a season for his career. As for "the only period of his career that he ever put elite numbers was his time in Pittsburgh", you might want to check that again. He put up elite numbers on a real bad Hartford team as well.

Ron Francis was a very good hockey player and he had the ability to make others around him better players. Not a lot of players have that kind of ability.
I agree with you BCF16, not to mention posting 80 27 50 77 pts working with no one in Carolina and that was one of the highest PPG that season in the middle of the dead puck era. So your he did it all in the high scoring era has no merit as he still collected points after the 95-96 season while he was aging. 78 23 50 73pts is another example of a great season by Francis in 99-00 in the dead puck era. Do your research before posting.

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10-02-2011, 09:33 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Francis was just as good defensively as Brind'Amour was.

I don't get why people underrate Ron Francis for. He was everything that a team would want in a hockey player. He could score, he could defend, he could play in all situations and he had incredible hockey sense. If that's Couturier, sign me up.

Francis averaged 78 points a season for his career. As for "the only period of his career that he ever put elite numbers was his time in Pittsburgh", you might want to check that again. He put up elite numbers on a real bad Hartford team as well.

Ron Francis was a very good hockey player and he had the ability to make others around him better players. Not a lot of players have that kind of ability.
I don't mean to offend you by comparing Couturier to Francis, who should be a HOFer and was a great player, but mu memories of Ron Francis bring me to do a parallel between him and Couturier:
they both make linemates better around them.

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10-02-2011, 09:35 AM
  #165
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Why would we want to keep Walker? blech

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10-02-2011, 09:58 AM
  #166
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Why would we want to keep Walker? blech
maybe prongers not ready?

i think homer wants to give walker a shot to showcase himself.

i still think schenn will be up in 9 games and coots will be sent back o the Q.

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10-02-2011, 10:46 AM
  #167
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When does the lineup have be finalized?

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10-02-2011, 11:25 AM
  #168
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When does the lineup have be finalized?
October 5

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10-02-2011, 11:30 AM
  #169
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Still not sold on schenn. I like the kid, and he has a lot of talent, but I have just not been impressed with anything he's done in camp or the exhibitions his played in. He just doesn't at all look like a player who should be considered a lock or given the 3rd line C position. Couturier has shown he wants it more, and he's willing to work as hard as it takes. That alone makes me say give it to couturier. He deserves an extended look, at the very least. Give schenn some time to get his **** together.

I would just think that the apparent "top prospect in hockey" who's had at least a little experience in both the NHL and the AHL, and who's been to an NHL training camp before, would be playing like he belongs there. He has not IMO.
I agree with this ! And to be quite frank about it, i think his brother is a little over rated as well up in Toronto ?.....Not saying a bad player, but a little over hyped in this early part of his career.

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10-02-2011, 12:28 PM
  #170
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Not sure if this was posted yet, but Timmy P says Couturier has pretty much made the team and may have pushed Nodl off the team. Also says Schenn may start in AHL to make room for Rinaldo and Walker.

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...810&feedID=695

Quote:
According to one club source, Courturier did nothing to “play himself off the roster.”

Which means Couturier makes it.

Couturier played 19:24 in Saturday’s pre-season finale for the Flyers, a 2-1 loss to the Devils at Prudential Center.

Seven minutes of that was special teams. Everything points to him pushing Andreas Nodl off the team.
I just want this damned season to start.

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10-02-2011, 01:00 PM
  #171
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I think Schenn goes to the Phantoms for the first 9 games and that gives the team that much more time to play people and see who they want to keep. That's all Homer does is just buy his time until he has to make a move and this gives him extra time. I think the extra games played will help get Schenn up to speed and he'll be ready when called up.

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10-05-2011, 04:36 PM
  #172
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What is the best thing for Couturier this year?

a. Another year in junior to let him develop and put on some size? However, does he really need another year dominating in the Q against 17 year olds?

b. He makes the Flyers. But then what? He plays 4th line center? Gets pushed to wing on the third line? Gets 5 minutes a game?

It is a tough decision. I personally would like him in the AHL, but the rules will not permit him in the AHL with a year of junior eligibility. So, I imagine he plays 10 games in Philly, sent back to Junior, makes the Canadian World Junior team, plays in the AHL playoffs after Junior. That sound about right?
This still sounds about right to me!! 10 games and back to Junior unless he tears it up (unlikely). I am excited to see him play on Philly, I am more excited to see how he does at the World Juniors. I want to see if he can DOMINATE against his peers on the World stage. I think he can.

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10-05-2011, 10:34 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
This still sounds about right to me!! 10 games and back to Junior unless he tears it up (unlikely). I am excited to see him play on Philly, I am more excited to see how he does at the World Juniors. I want to see if he can DOMINATE against his peers on the World stage. I think he can.
I believe it's 9 games we want, so his cap hit doesn't kick in.

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10-06-2011, 12:35 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
This still sounds about right to me!! 10 games and back to Junior unless he tears it up (unlikely). I am excited to see him play on Philly, I am more excited to see how he does at the World Juniors. I want to see if he can DOMINATE against his peers on the World stage. I think he can.
I hope his stay is nothing more than a cup of coffee... I dont think he looks like anything more than a competent 4th, top out 3rd liner right now. He is a bonerack aswell and in danger of being injured. I think it is the complete wrong route to take with him by keeping him up here for more than 9 games.

That being said, the QM is not the place for him either. so in my opinion 9 games with the club and back to the QM is the best route here for his development. playing 3rd/4th line duties will only stunt his offensive growth.

Ofcourse, going to the AHL would have been the ideal option, but yeah.

It has been a while since we had a top prospect so I would like to see us not jump the gun on him.
Here's to hoping that this year he's here for a good time, not a long time

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10-06-2011, 12:59 AM
  #175
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I thinkthey are planning on him staying the season. I think he only goes back if he seriously hits a wall and becomes a liability on the ice.

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