It was pelletier's mistake, not yours, but definitely a mistake. This can be verified through sihr, eurohockey.net (which is just missing one olympic), kings of the ice and the IIHF 2011 media guide and record book.
Alright I'll make the changes, should have double checked my sources as I have the IIHF record book here at home.
People got to learn how to use punctuation. On our radio ads the other day a black man's wallet was reported as missing. Instead of a man's wallet black in colour missing a black man's wallet is missing.
O'Neill is a better offensive player than Svetlov? That's not at all evident. Compare Jeff's best NHL regular seasons versus Svetlov's best tourneys against the NHL's best.
I never said ONeill was better, I said I had them in a group of 4. But it would be a defendable position too. ONeill actually placed in the top-10 in the NHL in goals once. Your list shows that svetlov played 12 games in best on best tournaments. I am not going after svetlov, but I don't see that he would be a very difficult target given your statement.
The only thing about Dewsbury that concerned me was a lack of any all star voting record at all. He was top 10 in points, but never received any votes. It makes me think he wasn't the best defensively, but we have nothing concrete to substantiate that.
He still made the '51 all-star game. I don't know of any voting history aside from the stickied thread in the history of hockey forum but it only lists about 5 players the year Dewsbury made the all-star game. He was a reserve player chosen by coach Joe Primeau but he may have been an injury replacement as I found a google archive calling for a few defenders (Allan Stanley and Bill Gadsby who maybe was hurt?) to be on the squad, instead of Dewsbury and another's name.
Also of note is he was a 1st All-star team reserve. The reserves for this team were made up of only American teams in the NHL, with the Second team getting reserves from only Montreal and Toronto, so he was chosen from a limited group. All the other American defenders chosen with Dewsbury were taken coming into the draft and he still had to be out some talented guys like Bill Goldham to earn it so it wasn't totally watered down, I think.
Last edited by Rob Scuderi: 10-05-2011 at 11:52 PM.
I suspect that Dewsbury was more valuable offensively than defensively too, but I can't say that with much certainty. Placing 4th-5th in scoring and not getting any votes says a lot (Zidlicky, Berard). Placing 9th-10th and not getting any votes doesn't say much.
Still, getting into the ASG on merit puts him in pretty rare company for players available now.
So I can't be 100% sure about Dewsbury, but I'm definitely sure Kurvers was an offensive specialist of the highest degree. he did get some pretty good icetime for three years, but also it should be noted that it was on bad teams. He really fit in with my 1990 Leafs, the most run and gun team of the last 25 years.
With 426 PPGF and 117 PPGA, he's got a ratio few modern defensemen can match.
I know he is very good offensively though, but since my capabilities are really limited at work now, I didn't get the chance to assess where he really stands among available guys.
I had the time to look into it, and if you're after a PP defenseman in the AAA, Kurvers is your man. Based on usage, PP point production rate and the number of games he averaged it over, I see a very small handful of modern defensemen who would compare.
Though he never fit the Flyers stereotype, even Keenan could not deny Eklund's natural talents. Perhaps the most talented of all Flyers players (quite a claim considering the likes of Brian Propp and Mark Howe were around), Eklund was an elegant skater and was a surprisingly good defensive center and would become a good penalty killer. But playmaking was his forte.
and the controversial Jimmy Orlando, D
On November 7, 1942, the Red Wings visited Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto for a game with the defending Stanley Cup champions. One of the best of the Leafs was winger Gaye Stewart, who was to win the Calder Trophy that season, outshining Montreal defenseman Glen Harmon and a future legend, Maurice “Rocket” Richard.
On defense for Detroit was the belligerent Jimmy Orlando, who was then playing his final season in the league. The Montreal-born Orlando was a tough guy who took great joy in leveling opposing forwards — especially brash newcomers like Stewart.
During this first meeting of the season between the archrivals, Stewart dashed down the boards, only to be dumped heavily into the corner by Orlando’s solid check. Stewart jumped to his feet and nailed Orlando with a two-handed slash with his stick. Orlando laughed as referee King Clancy blew his whistle and ordered Stewart to the penalty box.
Orlando describes what happened next. “There he is in the penalty box, fuming like an enraged bull. Stewart was so mad he couldn’t sit down. When play resumed I could hear him hollerin’ at me, so I hollered a few things back, and he didn’t like that one bit. Then — can you believe it? — he jumped out of the box and raced toward me. I’d never seen anything like it. The guy still had over a minute to serve in his penalty. Anyway, I saw him coming so I dropped my gloves and nailed him a good one, sending him sprawling to the ice. Clancy didn’t see this because he was way up the ice with everybody else. Then Stewart jumps up, takes his stick and smashes me right across the skull — a vicious blow that cut me for 23 stitches, I found out afterwards. I was in no man’s land for the next few minutes, so I never got to smack him back with my stick, much as I would have liked to.
“Clancy gave us both match penalties and the league fined us each $100. I was suspended from playing in Toronto the rest of the season and Stewart was banned from playing in Detroit, but somehow these suspensions were rescinded. By the way, somebody took a photo of me being led off the ice and it looks like I’d just been hit by a bus. Hockey was a tough game in those days.”
Seibert was a very speedy and versatile player. He started as a goaltender for Berlin but switched to forward and starred for many years. He was born in Berlin, March 18, 1881, and at one time played on a team comprised entirely from his own family. Seibert was a leader in many respects. He was one of the first Canadians to play on artificial ice when his team played an exhibition game in St. Louis.
He was also the first Berlin player to turn pro. After playing for Berlin Rangers, champions of the Western Ontario hockey Association for six successive seasons from 1900 to 1906, Seibert became a pro with Houghton, Michigan. He also played pro with London and Guelph in the Ontario Pro League and Northwestern Michigan League.
Oliver Seibert was, by reputation, a very fast skater and versatile player. He actually began his hockey career as a goaltender, a position usually reserved for those who were weaker on the blades. But, he switched to centre by the time he stepped on the ice with Berlin in the Western Ontario Hockey Association in 1900. In his initial season he scored ten goals in eight games played and increased his production the following year to 13 goals in six games played. By 1902, his third year in the league, he led the scoring derby with 17 goals in eight games. Seibert was one of the first to use the wrist shot and it would seem that he found the mark more often than not.
His play had earned him the respect and admiration of Buck Irvin, coach and manager of the Guelph O.A.C., and one of Berlin's main rivals in the W.O.H.A. In an era when obtaining player transfers from one team to another was almost impossible, Irvin somehow managed to acquire Berlin's star player, Oliver Seibert, for the 1903 season. The acquisition did not result in the expected championship for Guelph and Seibert was back with his hometown team the following year.
When the International Pro Hockey League began operations in time for the 1904-05 season, Seibert made his way from Berlin to Sault Ste. Marie to play for the Canadian Soo, becoming one of the first Berlin players to turn professional.
Oliver Seibert went on to play professionally with London and Guelph in the Ontario Pro League and Northwestern Michigan League. His son, Earl Seibert, is also an honoured member of the Hockey Hall of Fame.
Oliver Seibert was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1961.
1x NHL All Star Game Participant
2002 All Star Game MVP
95-96 All Rookie 1st Teamer
4x 30 Goal Scorer in the Dead Puck Era
3x Top 26 Goals (7, 15, 26)
19th in points, 02-03(78% of 2nd place Naslund)
59% of 3rd place Elias in 01-02
4 best Vs2 Goals: 55*, 61**, 61***, 93
*Vs3, #1 and #2 were outliers
**Vs3, two-way tie for 1st place
***Vs2, but top 3 were far ahead of everyone else, Vs4 % is 73
Career adjusted GPG: .414
Career adjusted PPG: .727
Daze, drafted by the Chicago Blackhawks in the 4th round, 90th overall in the 1993 NHL Entry Draft, was a giant of the hockey arena, standing tall at 6’6″ and 222 pounds, even without his skates. The guy was as strong as a bull, although that left everyone just wanting more. He never backed down from anybody, but on too many nights he failed to initiate much on the physical end of things. As a result Daze always had his fair share of critics calling for a higher compete level from him.
Making him more impressive was his hand skills. He had the soft hands, for shooting and puckhandling, that are usually reserved for players much smaller than him. He had a strong shot without much of a back swing and enough dangle while carrying the puck to draw defenders to him, allowing him to slip the puck into the vacated space to a streaking teammate.
Big number 55 was hardly a speed-demon either, though in his era he had decent skating ability amongst the lumbering big men. He skated well enough to play alongside Alexei Zhamnov and Tony Amonte for some time in Chicago.
Fans had mixed emotions about Daze over his career. While he possessed amazing talent, a great wrist shot and excellent one-timers, he didn’t use his massive size like a prototypical power-forward or involve himself at all in the hitting aspect of the game.
For the first few years of his career, Eric Daze looked like a power forward in the making. However, he never quite mastered the "power" part.
Daze started out on a high note: he led all rookies in goals in the 95-96 season and was a finalist for the Calder Trophy.
Due to Daze's size (six feet four, 200-plus pounds), his decent speed, and his excellent puckhandling skills, the Blackhawks thought they had a man that could run people over, drive to the net, and score. Some people were predicting 40 goal seasons.
Eric Daze Left Wing — Chicago Rookie Season: 1995 - 96 Scouts are already comparing Eric Daze to Hall-of-Famer Frank Mahovlich. With his long, smooth skating stride and blistering slapshot, Daze is a gifted goal scorer ...
If O'Neill is an elite winger, this guy must be too. Similar best 4 goal % seasons, and a better career GPG and PPG. I believe the only 4x 30 goal scorer from the Dead Puck era exclusively, one of the biggest forwards of all time, RW Eric Daze
Great pick, I think Daze is very overlooked, definitely a guy I wanted to draft soon.
ot sure what made Eklund so desirable. It certainly wasn’t his production. Many available centers have more attractive numbers.
Keith Brown had crept up, almost to the top of my list, since Doughtygate. He is a real solid pick right now. I would not have hesitated to select him.
I wouldn’t call Daze an elite winger, but when all is said and done he will probably be a good one. He’s not as good as O’Neill though. O’Neill’s 5 best percentage seasons add up to 310, Daze is just at 271. O’Neill was a physical beast at his peak, Daze never was. Neither had any defensive ability whatsoever. O’Neill was often maddeningly inconsistent. Daze always was. The reason Daze has a better career PPG is because O’Neill played 37% more games than him. Daze was a better peak goal scorer though.
Thank you for taking Oliver Seibert, now I don’t have to be the one to take him and defend why he’s in the HHOF.
Regina’s 4 th selection is Viktor Polupanov, C. Polupanov had a pretty short career, but he was a very talented offensive player. He was 2nd in scoring at two major olympic tournaments (1967 worlds, 1968 olympics), both times behind only Firsov, and was 3rd in soviet league scoring twice –1967, behind Firsov and Alexandrov, and 1968, behind Firsov and Starshinov. He was also 8th in scoring in 1969, and was a 2nd team soviet league all-star in 1967 and 1968. He played 28 international games, scoring 21 goals and 19 assists for 40 points. His 154 soviet league goals came in just 293 games, for an average of 0.53 per game.
point form recap:
- Twice 2nd in scoring in a major international tournament (1967 Worlds, 1968 Olympics), both times 2nd to only Firsov.
- 40 points in 28 major international games.
- According to chidlovski, 33rd all-time with 46 goals in all major and minor international games for CCCP (everyone else in the top-38 with 40+ goals is drafted)
- 154 goals in 293 Soviet league games
- Twice 2nd team Soviet all-star, both times behind Starshinov.
- 3rd in Soviet league scoring in 1966 behind Firsov & Alexandrov (the rest of the top-7 are drafted)
- 3rd in Soviet league scoring in 1967 behind Firsov & Starshinov (7 of the top-10 are drafted)
- 8th in Soviet league scoring in 1968 behind Starshinov, Firsov, Zimin, Vikulov, Mayorov, Mikhailov and one undrafted)
Last edited by seventieslord: 10-30-2011 at 12:42 AM.
Keith Brown had crept up, almost to the top of my list, since Doughtygate. He is a real solid pick right now. I would not have hesitated to select him.
Thanks, part of the reason I picked Brown was because he's from here. Another part of the reason is because he is one of the better defensemen left. Me and Dave had him in the AAA draft last year and he was a player we both liked.
As for Eklund and Seibert. I was tempted to pick Eklund on Monday when I selected Bordelau but Bordelau had better numbers
Seibert was going to be a pick for me up until yesterday but then I saw he was more of a centre so I decided to go for the more natural winger, Mishakov.
...The big, aggressive Reekie would appear in 104 games over 4 years with the Sabres. He was already developing a reputation for an uncanny sense of perfect defensive position that was usually reserved for veterans...
...In that time he quietly impressed as a penalty kill regular...
...From 1994 to 2002 Reekie served as a top four defender. He was often used against the other team's top players because of his strength and seemingly flawless defensive positioning. He was smart and tough, although that brought inevitable injuries that slowed him. Regardless, he always played with a subtle savvy that I always admired, as well as [B]with a tough and physical, yet clean, presence...
...The highlight of Reekie's career came in 1998 when he was a big part of the Capitals march into the Stanley Cup finals. Unfortunately the Detroit Red Wings handled the Capitals to deny Reekie a Stanley Cup championship...
...every coach in the league wish they had a dependable defender like Joe Reekie on their blue line...