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Lee gets the shaft...ready for playing some hockey!

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Old
10-07-2011, 01:50 AM
  #101
Holdurbreathe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezz101 View Post
The thing I cant get over is the list of players taken after lee who have made a name for themselves in the NHL

Lee-9th overall
Kopitar-11th overall
M. Staal-12th overall
Hanzal-17th overall
Rask-21st overall
Bergfors-23rd overall
Oshie-24th overall
Downie-29th overall

and these are just the first round picks picked after him is doesnt include the later rounds with: James Neal, M E Vlasic, Pavelec, Statsny, Lattendresse, Raymond, Letang, Yandle and a few others
It isn't Lee's fault where he was drafted, it was the crazy old drunk... Muckler.

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10-07-2011, 02:18 AM
  #102
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Guys, guys, guys... calm down

If Kuba plays over Brian Lee, it's more because of "veteran respect" than anything else. It's his 11th full NHL season, played in an all-star game and has been recognized as a solid all-around D-men most of his career. It's a vote of confidence to a veteran in hope that he finds back HIS own confidence. An useful Kuba would help this team and would become a valuable asset at the trade deadline. Another 2nd round pick would be transformed by Murray in another 1st round pick at the draft, you know it. They have to know IF Kuba can turn it around or not, then they'll decide about him.


Does it matter anyway? We won't win the cup this year. It's a learning year, and Rundblad has to learn NOW. We don't want to contend in 10 years, but as soon as possible. Play Rundblad, play Cowen, play Da Costa, Zibanejad, Filatov as much as possible... Depht guys like Winchester, Lee, Konopka, Carkner don't need to play 82 games. They have pretty cheap salaries and it's for a reason : they are the depht of the roster.

See how we use the IR list already? we didn't do that in recent years. Most of the time, the injured player stayed on the active roster while injured. Now, it's different. We have evaluations and auditions to make. We are preparing the future.

I think many people around here didn't really have an idea of what is a rebuild. Well, you'll learn quickly. Many "weird" things will happen


Quote:
Originally Posted by coladin View Post
Yes, that is as good as he gets, maybe another 5% higher at best. To quote Mike Eastwood "he is what he is"...he is Jamie Rivers, Patrick Traverse, a fringe NHLer who can sub for injury and not much else.

This is a very polarizing issue for many. He is either loved or unloved. I don't see any hockey sense or shot. he cabn play shutdown? Who the hell has he ever "shutdown"? What a joke, and to be compared to someone who has actually shut people down over the years like Phillips is even sadder...the depths of how much people love their prospects.

He is at or near his ceiling, he will never, EVER, be in the top four, he is a 6-7 and that is no bad thing. The thing is - he won't win you a game...Rundblad will.
I agree with this. The disrespect I read at times about players like Neil or Phillips is sad, very sad. They have proved a lot in the NHL, same can't be said for the young guys, who are shiny new toys yes, but won't necessarily become better players than them when all is said and done. I'm glad Phillips and Neil are still around. Not only as hockey players but as people too.

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Old
10-07-2011, 03:31 AM
  #103
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The staff's job is to ice the best possible team. I couldn't care less about Lee ceiling as I don't see him staying a Senator much longer but it's about sending the right message and trying to earn the trust of your players.

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Old
10-07-2011, 03:56 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Silfverberger View Post


This is a terrible decision if it comes to pass. Lee has earned a spot with his play both last year and in the preseason.

It's a terrible message to send when the coaches are claiming they will hold the players accountable. Kuba plays terribly for more than a year and just slides into the top 4? Meanwhile Lee puts in extra hours at the gym, works hard, improves his game and outplays Kuba by a fair margin. He sits.

Based on their play, Kuba or Rundblad should be on popcorn row way before Lee.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the "Holding players accountable" motto a failed Clouston thing? I don't think Ive ever heard that sentence ever come out of Macleans mouth. He's working with the attitude that were working as a team and it's "us" vs the rest of the NHL more of a partnership instead of "do as I say or there may or may not be repercussions.

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Old
10-07-2011, 07:26 AM
  #105
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Book it
Kuba goes to step on the ice and break is leg then Lee can be back in the line-up.

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Old
10-07-2011, 07:48 AM
  #106
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so tonight our lineup looks like this then:

Michalek-Spezza-Filatov
Greening-Zibanejad-Alfie
Condra-Da Costa-Butler
Foligno-Smith-Neil

Cowen-Gonchar
Kuba-Karlsson
Phillips-Rundblad

Anderson



...meh

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Old
10-07-2011, 08:18 AM
  #107
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Whatever comes out of this, for the love of God, please don't send Brian Lee back to Binghamton. We don't want him, he sucks. I'd honestly rather have Kuba and that's saying a lot.

I find it comical that a defenseman that is always on the ice for a minus gets so much love. You can usually see some of Lee's highlights skating into the frame just as the puck hits the twine. Go check out some, quite hilarious how many there are, not to mention how many I've seen with my own two eyes.

Keep looking the other way though. You only have to watch Brian Lee for two-three years before you realize he is just mediocre.


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Old
10-07-2011, 08:51 AM
  #108
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All I can really say for our defense at the moment is that I'm glad they aren't sitting Rundblad. We want this kid in the lineup or in Binghamton and we want him learning, so if they rotate Kuba and Lee on the bench then oh well. I've liked Brian Lee's game more so of late but if we need him to sit for one game so a promising prospect can develop then so be it.

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Old
10-07-2011, 09:05 AM
  #109
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The rreason he's not in the lineup is he doesn't do anything well, and a few things he does really badly.

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Old
10-07-2011, 09:09 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA0402 View Post
I guess this should have been predictable.
Hey- if the shaft fits...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
I usually agree with you, but I'd say that MacLean has one priority: win. And if I was him, I'd have Lee in the lineup over Rundblad, but he would know best so there must be a reason.
Yes and no? Apart from the obvious that is right about this statement, MacLean's priorities aren't so black and white ATM.

Look at it this way: if not Lee, who would sit? Kuba or Rundblad. Far more questions surround these 2 than Lee- whom I think you can bank on a certain level of play. Will Kuba or Rundblad handle a scratch as well as Lee? What happens to their game if their confidence is rattled this early in the season?

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10-07-2011, 09:09 AM
  #111
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the reason he isnt playing is to get Rundblad games before we send him down..if we do.


Not that hard to understand. I am sure Lee will get his shot in the TOronto game

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10-07-2011, 10:22 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
the reason he isnt playing is to get Rundblad games before we send him down..if we do.


Not that hard to understand. I am sure Lee will get his shot in the TOronto game
I expect that's the case.

They may also think playing against his Swedish hockey heroes will bring out the best in Rundblad.

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10-07-2011, 10:32 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
so tonight our lineup looks like this then:

Michalek-Spezza-Filatov
Greening-Zibanejad-Alfie
Condra-Da Costa-Butler
Foligno-Smith-Neil

Cowen-Gonchar
Kuba-Karlsson
Phillips-Rundblad

Anderson



...meh
What were you expecting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
The rreason he's not in the lineup is he doesn't do anything well, and a few things he does really badly.
That's crap. He was arguably the sens best defenseman in camp.

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Old
10-07-2011, 10:36 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
at is right about this statement, MacLean's priorities aren't so black and white ATM.

Look at it this way: if not Lee, who would sit? Kuba or Rundblad. Far more questions surround these 2 than Lee- whom I think you can bank on a certain level of play. Will Kuba or Rundblad handle a scratch as well as Lee? What happens to their game if their confidence is rattled this early in the season?
Nice, thank you.

Sometimes I can't believe how black and white fans make these decisions out to be. Rundblad didn't earn a full 82 game season ahead of Lee, and neither did Kuba.

1. Kuba's got a contract, and the only way he can increase value is by playing. The only reason they can force themselves to shelve him, or buy him out, is by seeing how bad he is on the ice. Sounds like they've held talks about him with other teams, no interest....if he sits, there will continue to be no interest...if he plays and plays decently, maybe someone bites. If we can get value out of Kuba, that's a nice coup for this rebuilding team. Getting something back for Kuba soon, or the possibility of it, is more important than beating the Wings tonight.

2. Rundblad is either ready for the NHL, or he isn't. They can't get closer to finding that out by putting him in the pressbox and it's better to find out now....than to let the guy gather 2-3 weeks worth of rust before they let him go at it again.

IE. The Sens know they may not ice the best lineup they could ice on this given day....but they do know they may get closer to answering questions that will help them ice the best lineup they can going forward.

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Old
10-07-2011, 10:41 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by pt_mck View Post
What were you expecting?



That's crap. He was arguably the sens best defenseman in camp.
4th year in a row, right?

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10-07-2011, 10:55 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Nice, thank you.

Sometimes I can't believe how black and white fans make these decisions out to be. Rundblad didn't earn a full 82 game season ahead of Lee, and neither did Kuba.

1. Kuba's got a contract, and the only way he can increase value is by playing. The only reason they can force themselves to shelve him, or buy him out, is by seeing how bad he is on the ice. Sounds like they've held talks about him with other teams, no interest....if he sits, there will continue to be no interest...if he plays and plays decently, maybe someone bites. If we can get value out of Kuba, that's a nice coup for this rebuilding team. Getting something back for Kuba soon, or the possibility of it, is more important than beating the Wings tonight.

2. Rundblad is either ready for the NHL, or he isn't. They can't get closer to finding that out by putting him in the pressbox and it's better to find out now....than to let the guy gather 2-3 weeks worth of rust before they let him go at it again.

IE. The Sens know they may not ice the best lineup they could ice on this given day....but they do know they may get closer to answering questions that will help them ice the best lineup they can going forward.
I appreciate your opinion, but to be honest, Kuba will do nothing to improve his value in the eyes of 29 other GMs. People love to mention Lee was put on waivers with no takers, ignoring the obvious.

The same fans also seem to ignore the fact Murray tried to move Kuba and Gonchar in the past 6 months and got no offers, zero, ziltch, not even a low draft pick.

So if the Sens idea of a rebuild is to sit a 24 year old defenceman who is showing to be a 3/4 defenceman, while playing a 32 year old ($3.7M) veteran whose game has deteriorated in the 5/6 spot, then I think they have it wrong.

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10-07-2011, 10:59 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Nice, thank you.

Sometimes I can't believe how black and white fans make these decisions out to be. Rundblad didn't earn a full 82 game season ahead of Lee, and neither did Kuba.

1. Kuba's got a contract, and the only way he can increase value is by playing. The only reason they can force themselves to shelve him, or buy him out, is by seeing how bad he is on the ice. Sounds like they've held talks about him with other teams, no interest....if he sits, there will continue to be no interest...if he plays and plays decently, maybe someone bites. If we can get value out of Kuba, that's a nice coup for this rebuilding team. Getting something back for Kuba soon, or the possibility of it, is more important than beating the Wings tonight.

2. Rundblad is either ready for the NHL, or he isn't. They can't get closer to finding that out by putting him in the pressbox and it's better to find out now....than to let the guy gather 2-3 weeks worth of rust before they let him go at it again.

IE. The Sens know they may not ice the best lineup they could ice on this given day....but they do know they may get closer to answering questions that will help them ice the best lineup they can going forward.
I think the real truth is B. Lee cannot make an NHL play with his back is against the action, ie when he is skating towards his net - compare this to Rundblad who can not only turn and make plays with the puck he can outskate forewchekcers - B. Lee cannot do either of these things.

It's simple, if Lee was an NHL'er he'd be in the lineup on opening night, he's not a legit top 6 Dman on the Sens anyways, and for a lot of fans they think he looked good playing on a losing team, how do you think he fits into a team that is playing to win this year versus one that played like it was going to lose last year. lee doesn;t look to me like a player that helps you win.

If anything the contract excuses on these boards - they'd start Lee so they could trade him, benching him for game 1 reduces his value huge and hurts his chances of making our lineup if Rundblad scores or looks even somewhat decent against one of the best teams in the NHL in his 1st game

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Old
10-07-2011, 11:07 AM
  #118
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Pfft, we all know the casual fan knows alot better than Paul Maclean or any o his staff. How could they sit the amazing Lee!

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Old
10-07-2011, 11:08 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
I appreciate your opinion, but to be honest, Kuba will do nothing to improve his value in the eyes of 29 other GMs. People love to mention Lee was put on waivers with no takers, ignoring the obvious.

So if the Sens idea of a rebuild is to sit a 24 year old defenceman who is showing to be a 3/4 defenceman, while playing a 32 year old ($3.7M) veteran whose game has deteriorated in the 5/6 spot, then I think they have it wrong.
I'm not saying he's going to develop any value, I've said multiple times the difference is like 2%...he has 2% chance to develop value if he plays and 0% if he doesn't play. But it's pretty clear that a contract like Kuba's affords him the privilege to play on the opening day roster. What I'm trying to say here is, I'm in firm disagreement with anyone that questions Paul MacLean on this decision...there is no coach out there that would prefer to have Kuba on the ice for opening night, based on last season and pre-season.

I'd say they do have it wrong, but I expect there are logical reasons behind it. It's easy for us fans to say Kuba can't develop value, but they have to play the slight chance that there is. And with Rundblad, they can't have him on the bench if they are trying to find out where he belongs. Pre-season is only so good to find out where players are at...for a rebuilding team, they can use the first games of the season to find out other things.

I know some seem to think having the best chance to beat the Red Wings tonight is paramount, but it's clearly not.

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10-07-2011, 11:11 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
I think the real truth is B. Lee cannot make an NHL play with his back is against the action, ie when he is skating towards his net - compare this to Rundblad who can not only turn and make plays with the puck he can outskate forewchekcers - B. Lee cannot do either of these things.

It's simple, if Lee was an NHL'er he'd be in the lineup on opening night, he's not a legit top 6 Dman on the Sens anyways, and for a lot of fans they think he looked good playing on a losing team, how do you think he fits into a team that is playing to win this year versus one that played like it was going to lose last year. lee doesn;t look to me like a player that helps you win.

If anything the contract excuses on these boards - they'd start Lee so they could trade him, benching him for game 1 reduces his value huge and hurts his chances of making our lineup if Rundblad scores or looks even somewhat decent against one of the best teams in the NHL in his 1st game
Can't bring myself to agree with any of this, even if I am wrong.

If you think MacLean started Kuba because he thought he earned it and has a better chance over starting Lee, I can't continue with you.

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Old
10-07-2011, 11:34 AM
  #121
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False Alarm: Rundblad scratched tonight per Mendes.

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10-07-2011, 11:35 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Can't bring myself to agree with any of this, even if I am wrong.

If you think MacLean started Kuba because he thought he earned it and has a better chance over starting Lee, I can't continue with you.
I think Kuba's NHL career gives him the start over Lee who has played decent in maybe 30 NHL games, Kuba has had 40 point seasons with the Sens. Lee had 3 assists last year in 50 games. I saw Lee score in the pre-seaosn, but I also saw him completely collapse under presuuer and thorw pucks at our forwards who had no way to make a safe play with the puck and it lead to turn overs.

Rundbald earned the start over Lee because he's better overall. He can move the puck and he plays to win, Lee plays to not make a mistake, and when he does (every period) it makes him expendable

Lee has never proven to be an NHL player, and he starts the season on the bench, if he earned his way onto the team like Cowen he would play, but there are way to many holes in his game to make him a guaranteed starter. If Kuba plays well tonight and Rundbald looks comfortable, Lee could be on waivers again and this time a team will probably take him because he has no more guaranteed money after next year.

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10-07-2011, 11:35 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Trigun View Post
False Alarm: Rundblad scratched tonight per Mendes.
Yeah, MacLean said he didn't have to decide til today.

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10-07-2011, 11:38 AM
  #124
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False Alarm: Rundblad scratched tonight per Mendes.
Makes sense, wouldn't want him to be overly exposed in his first game. You want the kid to start the season with lots of confidence

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10-07-2011, 11:45 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
I think Kuba's NHL career gives him the start over Lee who has played decent in maybe 30 NHL games, Kuba has had 40 point seasons with the Sens. Lee had 3 assists last year in 50 games. I saw Lee score in the pre-seaosn, but I also saw him completely collapse under presuuer and thorw pucks at our forwards who had no way to make a safe play with the puck and it lead to turn overs.

Rundbald earned the start over Lee because he's better overall. He can move the puck and he plays to win, Lee plays to not make a mistake, and when he does (every period) it makes him expendable

Lee has never proven to be an NHL player, and he starts the season on the bench, if he earned his way onto the team like Cowen he would play, but there are way to many holes in his game to make him a guaranteed starter. If Kuba plays well tonight and Rundbald looks comfortable, Lee could be on waivers again and this time a team will probably take him because he has no more guaranteed money after next year.
40 points as the teams lead PP QB isn't anything all that impressive (it means the PP probably stunk), especially on the ice with the Pizza line. Lee's not a powerplay guy, he's a young guy that got his first chance to run with the ball, and he played well, night in night out. I doubt he'll be a legit top 4 Dman ever, but on this team, as it stands, he deserves to play.

Guess Rundblad wasn't better than Lee overall, you're kidding yourself if you actually thought that. He may be better overall, very soon....but not going into this game.

Brian Lee had a very strong pre-season, there's no getting around that. If you're going to nit pick at every mistake he made during the pre-season, where are you on Rundblad looking overwhelmed through most of the pre-season?

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