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Avery waived (10/5: Clears waivers)

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Old
10-08-2011, 02:33 PM
  #951
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Yes, what we have taken away from the LA game is that Avery is sorely missed and now we are paying the price.
Just about to remind you about the 5 game remark you made--because the Rangers have really lacked a spark so far and then Richards scores. Still got to think that if not Avery the Rangers could possibly use a guy like say a Clutterbuck who could get other teams off their games.

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10-08-2011, 03:09 PM
  #952
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I don't have all the numbers in front of me, but the difference would be marginal in penalties drawn/taken. Hardly concrete enough to warrant him staying around.

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10-08-2011, 03:12 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I don't have all the numbers in front of me, but the difference would be marginal in penalties drawn/taken. Hardly concrete enough to warrant him staying around.
Nice to see that you have to change your argument to keep your opinion.

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10-08-2011, 03:32 PM
  #954
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With each game, the stupidity of this decision will come more and more into focus.

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10-08-2011, 03:49 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Just about to remind you about the 5 game remark you made--because the Rangers have really lacked a spark so far and then Richards scores. Still got to think that if not Avery the Rangers could possibly use a guy like say a Clutterbuck who could get other teams off their games.
I would love to have Clutterbuck.

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10-08-2011, 04:47 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
Nice to see that you have to change your argument to keep your opinion.
Yeah exactly that.

My opinion is the same, his amazing ability to draw penalties is nothing when compared to the penalties he took. The only thing that changed was the differential and I noted originally that I didn't have all of the information in front of me so it was an estimate. I was off, it was actually closer, but again minimal. It's a weak argument either way.

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10-08-2011, 04:49 PM
  #957
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The Rangers were unable to establish a forecheck today against a team not known for its defense. 15 shots on goal? Forechecking is more one of Avery's strengths. It's not one of Christensen's. EC missed on the shootout--not by much but a miss is a miss. If he had scored we probably would have won anyway. He has to make the most of his strengths--not blow his chances.

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10-08-2011, 04:58 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Just about to remind you about the 5 game remark you made--because the Rangers have really lacked a spark so far and then Richards scores. Still got to think that if not Avery the Rangers could possibly use a guy like say a Clutterbuck who could get other teams off their games.
So far, the Rangers have the same problem they have had for a couple of seasons. That is putting the puck in the net. If you think Avery is the answer, that is an amazing opinion, to me.

You can remind me in 5, 10, 15, 35, or 105 games and it won't change my opinion about Avery. He hasn't been an offensive contributor in quite some time, but we are now supposed to believe he would be, because, so far the Rangers have not been scoring. Where is the logic?

They have not lacked a spark. They have lacked goals.

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10-08-2011, 05:02 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Yeah exactly that.

My opinion is the same, his amazing ability to draw penalties is nothing when compared to the penalties he took. The only thing that changed was the differential and I noted originally that I didn't have all of the information in front of me so it was an estimate. I was off, it was actually closer, but again minimal. It's a weak argument either way.
You noted that you didn't have all the information in front of you after I provided it to you. There's a misconception that Avery was killing the team with bad penalties and that he no longer could draw penalties. It's all B.S.

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10-08-2011, 05:07 PM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
So far, the Rangers have the same problem they have had for a couple of seasons. That is putting the puck in the net. If you think Avery is the answer, that is an amazing opinion, to me.

You can remind me in 5, 10, 15, 35, or 105 games and it won't change my opinion about Avery. He hasn't been an offensive contributor in quite some time, but we are now supposed to believe he would be, because, so far the Rangers have not been scoring. Where is the logic?

They have not lacked a spark. They have lacked goals.

It's hard to generate quality offensive chances without an established forecheck. I'm not going to say that Avery would have made a difference, however, we do need to get a forecheck going. A lot of people said that we didn't need Avery because we already had enough gritty forecheckers. Well, I haven't seen them yet. There were times in todays game when Anaheim was able to hold the puck in our defensive zone and tire out our skaters. We couldn't really do that to them.

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10-08-2011, 05:15 PM
  #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
You noted that you didn't have all the information in front of you after I provided it to you. There's a misconception that Avery was killing the team with bad penalties and that he no longer could draw penalties. It's all B.S.
Wrong, what I was saying is I didn't have all the information regarding his exact penalties. Minors, majors, misconducts, etc. I didn't discount the info you provided. I said what you are saying that it's a BS argument, on both sides of the coin. His penalties drawn relative to his penalties taken is close enough to be called equal. My numbers were off and I knew that when I posted. If he drew 36 minor penalties and took 34 who cares? He wasn't being extremely effective in that regard compared to a guy like Callahan who draws quite a few more penalties than he takes.

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10-08-2011, 07:02 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
So far, the Rangers have the same problem they have had for a couple of seasons. That is putting the puck in the net. If you think Avery is the answer, that is an amazing opinion, to me.

You can remind me in 5, 10, 15, 35, or 105 games and it won't change my opinion about Avery. He hasn't been an offensive contributor in quite some time, but we are now supposed to believe he would be, because, so far the Rangers have not been scoring. Where is the logic?

They have not lacked a spark. They have lacked goals.
You're arguing for arguings sake.

When you can't establish a forecheck you don't have spark. It means you're not pressuring the other team enough. 15 shots today against a mediocre defense is proof that they weren't generating opportunities. And 15 shots against good goaltending--good *** luck. You're not going to win too many.

Torts is smart enough to realize that. That doesn't mean he's going to bring Avery back but his team has got to get more aggressive if he expects it to go anywhere.

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10-08-2011, 07:24 PM
  #963
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
It is noteworthy that Zooks tied Cally for the biggest difference in penalties drawn vs penalties taken with a delta of .6

For anyone that didnt read the blog here are the Rangers in their order of finish

Penalties drawn per 60 minutes minus Penalties taken per 60 minutes:


Zooks
Cally
Boyle
Prust
Feds
AA
Wolski
EC
Gabs
Frolov
Stepan
Duby
Avery
Emmy
Staal
Sauer
MDZ
Gilroy
Girardi
McD

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10-08-2011, 07:36 PM
  #964
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If I read that correctly, Avery had the worst ratio of all the forwards, being just above all the defensemen (who, by the nature of their jobs, will be taking more penalties than drawing them)?

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10-08-2011, 07:48 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by Khelvan View Post
If I read that correctly, Avery had the worst ratio of all the forwards, being just above all the defensemen (who, by the nature of their jobs, will be taking more penalties than drawing them)?
If you wan't to spin it that way.

All I've been hearing all offseason is how Avery can't draw penalties anymore and the stupid ones he takes makes him a liability. It's all B.S. He's in the positive.

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10-08-2011, 08:47 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
If you wan't to spin it that way.

All I've been hearing all offseason is how Avery can't draw penalties anymore and the stupid ones he takes makes him a liability. It's all B.S. He's in the positive.
Spin what? I didn't interpret the stats. He takes the most penalties vs. draws them out of all the forwards. Look at the numbers.

I'm not drawing any conclusions based on that. I'm just reading the stats.

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10-08-2011, 09:02 PM
  #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
If you wan't to spin it that way.

All I've been hearing all offseason is how Avery can't draw penalties anymore and the stupid ones he takes makes him a liability. It's all B.S. He's in the positive.
Haha. It's not a spin job at all the proof is in the pudding. Therefore like I said terrible argument for the Avery sympathizers.

To be fair it's not a great argument for the detractors either.

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10-08-2011, 09:10 PM
  #968
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Haha. It's not a spin job at all the proof is in the pudding. Therefore like I said terrible argument for the Avery sympathizers.

To be fair it's not a great argument for the detractors either.
I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
SNY Rangers blog posted an analysis that showed penalties drawn to penalties taken. Avery did in fact draw more penalties than he took last season.
You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
That's mathematically impossible if he had 174 PIMs and drew 36 penalties.
You were wrong!!!

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10-08-2011, 09:20 PM
  #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
I said:


You said:


You were wrong!!!
Oh no! My wifes gonna have to hide the knives so I don't cut myself.

I also said I didn't have all the info in front of me. My bad. I made an assumption without taking 10m misconducts into consideration.

Doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible argument.

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10-08-2011, 09:28 PM
  #970
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Oh no! My wifes gonna have to hide the knives so I don't cut myself.

I also said I didn't have all the info in front of me. My bad. I made an assumption without taking 10m misconducts into consideration.

Doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible argument.
You made the same erroneous assumption that all the other anti-Avery protesters make. My ability to disprove said assumption makes my argument - a good one.

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10-08-2011, 09:44 PM
  #971
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I don't understand what all the arguing is about. Torts doesn't like Avery. This is Tort's team. It's hard to argue the team would be better off with Avery in the lineup when it's well documented that Torts doesn't like him. Avery under Torts last year was completely ineffective. Outside of a few behind the back passes from behind the net Avery was useless. Not to mention being the clear cut winner of the Sean Avery offsides award (or whatever you guys call it ). As much as I hate saying it I'd rather have Christensen who has shown in the past to be useful in shootouts (other than today! of course) than a neutered Avery.

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10-08-2011, 09:44 PM
  #972
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
You made the same erroneous assumption that all the other anti-Avery protesters make. My ability to disprove said assumption makes my argument - a good one.
No I didn't. I never once said he drew a bunch of penalties to hurt the team.

What I said was and I stand by it, His ability to draw penalties, relative to the penalties he took was not as big of a "talent" as you guys say it is.

You proved that with your own stats.

Your argument is terrible.

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10-08-2011, 09:51 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
No I didn't. I never once said he drew a bunch of penalties to hurt the team.

What I said was and I stand by it, His ability to draw penalties, relative to the penalties he took was not as big of a "talent" as you guys say it is.

You proved that with your own stats.

Your argument is terrible.
I never once bragged about about the part that you bolded. I simply stated that Avery does in fact draw more penalties than he takes. You immediately challenged me on it and I provided the facts.

As far as penalties go, Avery is not a liability and he never has been.

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10-08-2011, 09:58 PM
  #974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
I never once bragged about about the part that you bolded. I simpley stated that Avery does in fact draw more penalties than he takes. You immediately challenged me on it and I provided the facts.

As far as penalties go, Avery is not a liability and he never has been.
Multiple people in various threads have said that drawing penalties was his strength but you proved among all of the Rangers forwards he actually had the lowest margin on the team in regards to penalties he has drawn on the other team vs penalties he has taken himself.

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10-08-2011, 10:04 PM
  #975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
I never once bragged about about the part that you bolded.
Good for you.

Quote:
I simply stated that Avery does in fact draw more penalties than he takes.
Which proved me right thanks! My argument wasn't that he drew LESS penalties than he took, it's simply that relatively speaking the ratio is a non factor.

Quote:
You immediately challenged me on it and I provided the facts.
I did? Did you do a name change from MAYO to stan the caddy? You nosed in on my response to MAYO. Whom made it sound as if Avery's ability to draw penalties was a valuable asset.

Quote:
As far as penalties go, Avery is not a liability and he never has been.
I never said he was.

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