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10-09-2011, 09:57 AM
  #126
Mr. Hab
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post

I don't think you quite followed my hypothesis.

If the organization hadn't have thrown away capable of offensive centres like Grabovski or Ribeiro. We wouldn't have had to make the deal for Gomez and thus could've kept McDonagh.
I did but you won't like it! I am one of the several Hab fans that was not a fan of Ribeiro, Grabovski, Theodore,etc... I actually wanted Ribeiro and Grabovski out of here. I completely (110%) agree with management to get rid of them. Wish we got more for them but their value is just higher...today.

I'm not that happy either that we don't have McDonagh anymore, but...I still believe Gomez cares and can help us.

Sure I wish we received more for Grabovski and Ribeiro, but at the time there was no bidding wars for either. IMO, Ribeiro wearing the CH jersey was a shameful sight...I couldn't wait till he left. If Grabovski is your 1st or 2nd line center...you're not getting anywhere near the Cup, imo. The Leafs have Grabovski 'cause he was available but they would rather have many other centers instead of Grabovski (ex: B.Richards). For me...Plekanec, Eller and L.Leblanc >>>>>>>>>>> Grabovski and Ribeiro.

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10-09-2011, 10:04 AM
  #127
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The Ribeiro trade was a bad one.

The Grabovski trade...I don't understand the complaints here.

He wasn't a blue chip prospect at the time and hardly had any nhl experience. It's not like we traded him after he had scored 60 points in his first year. We traded an experienced 24 prospect who had some supposed attitude issues. We got a second and a prospect for a prospect who wasn't a blue chip one.

If your complaint is about that we should have kept him, then maybe I'd understand. If your complaint is about return...I disagree. How much could we got back for an older prospect who hadn't proven anything in the nhl yet?

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10-09-2011, 10:04 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I did but you won't like it! I am one of the several Hab fans that was not a fan of Ribeiro, Grabovski, Theodore,etc... I actually wanted Ribeiro and Grabovski out of here. I completely (110%) agree with management to get rid of them. Wish we got more for them but their value is just higher...today.

I'm not that happy either that we don't have McDonagh anymore, but...I still believe Gomez cares and can help us.

Sure I wish we received more for Grabovski and Ribeiro, but at the time there was no bidding wars for either. IMO, Ribeiro wearing the CH jersey was a shameful sight...I couldn't wait till he left. If Grabovski is your 1st or 2nd line center...you're not getting anywhere near the Cup, imo. The Leafs have Grabovski 'cause he was available but they would rather have many other centers instead of Grabovski (ex: B.Richards). For me...Plekanec, Eller and L.Leblanc >>>>>>>>>>> Grabovski and Ribeiro.
Leblanc will never be a center at the NHL level and it remains to be seen if he'll ever do more than spot duty on the top two lines. I agree that Eller and Plekanec will be better centers than Grabo and Ribeiro. However, Grabovski right now is a more dynamic, faster, creative center and he actually has the capability of scoring goals. He is better than Gomez at this stage in their careers and it was managements mistake to trade them and get horrific returns.

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10-09-2011, 10:10 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Leblanc will never be a center at the NHL level and it remains to be seen if he'll ever do more than spot duty on the top two lines. I agree that Eller and Plekanec will be better centers than Grabo and Ribeiro. However, Grabovski right now is a more dynamic, faster, creative center and he actually has the capability of scoring goals. He is better than Gomez at this stage in their careers and it was managements mistake to trade them and get horrific returns.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Grabovski was traded a whole year before we acquired Gomez. Also we traded him the year after finishing first in the conferences. The habs prepared for big things(unfortunately injuries and internal team strife caused otherwise) and traded picks and prospect to bring in more offensive depth(Lang and Tanguay).

Also, Grabovski at the time had to beat Koivu and Plekanec for a spot on the top 2 lines.

It just wasn't a fit. Unless Gainey foresaw the team collapsing entirely, I really don't think he can be blamed for the Grabovski trade. Also, I don't get why it was a horrific return for Grabosvki when he hadn't shown anything in the nhl and was just an overaged prospect who yeilded a 2nd and a prospect.

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10-09-2011, 10:57 AM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Leblanc will never be a center at the NHL level and it remains to be seen if he'll ever do more than spot duty on the top two lines. I agree that Eller and Plekanec will be better centers than Grabo and Ribeiro. However, Grabovski right now is a more dynamic, faster, creative center and he actually has the capability of scoring goals. He is better than Gomez at this stage in their careers and it was managements mistake to trade them and get horrific returns.
I'm hoping that L.Leblanc will be a solid 3rd line center or 3rd line winger for us one day (2yrs or less?). Maybe there's a chance he will be a good top 6 winger...?

Grabovski: think about the playoffs...do you really want our Habs to rely on a Grabovski for playoffs? From Linden, Gilmour, Muller, Koivu...to Grabovski?!! We're not going anywhere with a Grabovski. Trust me on this...good riddance. Grabovski is fun to watch these days (''dynamic and creative''), but...he's not a playoff player, never will be...if I'm wrong I won't mind at all coming back here to apologize.
Grabovski is a Valeri Bure, a Berezin, a Czerkawski. You forget about these players...quickly. They're here for the paychecks and not playoff victories.

Ribeiro is good for hockey pools if you're looking for a 65pt+ player, but playoffs...Ribeiro was not built for playoffs. It's fun to watch his little wanna-be Gretzky passes and show-off moves here and there but that's it, that's all. Good riddance (I'm still so happy he's not wearing the CH jersey). Couldn't stand him.

Not having Grabovski or Ribeiro is definitely not the problem with our Habs...imo.


Health, healthy, health (good luck!) and having some kind of protection for our smaller players are my main concerns (Moen and White can't do it all by themselves, they need help). With Pleks, Gomez, Eller, Desharnais, L.Leblanc...we don't need to think about Grabovski or Ribeiro. We need to think about how to get a Chris Neil type and/or a Regehr type of dman....

Grabovski = zero playoff success
Ribeiro = close to zero playoff success


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 10-09-2011 at 11:02 AM.
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Old
10-09-2011, 10:59 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Ribeiro is good for hockey pools if you're looking for a 65pt+ player, but playoffs...Ribeiro was not built for playoffs. It's fun to watch his little wanna-be Gretzky passes and show-off moves here and there but that's it, that's all. Good riddance (I'm still so happy he's not wearing the CH jersey). Couldn't stand him.
...
Ribeiro = close to zero playoff success
You're so wrong it's pathetic.

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Old
10-09-2011, 11:32 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're so wrong it's pathetic.

I'm so right and it still makes me feel ecstatic (that Ribeiro is gone).







Hab fans vs Hab fans!! (gotta love it!).

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10-09-2011, 11:41 AM
  #133
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A center line of Ribeiro-Grabovski and Plekanec + Lapierre would be quite good. three out of four were given away...

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10-09-2011, 11:46 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
A center line of Ribeiro-Grabovski and Plekanec + Lapierre would be quite good. three out of four were given away...
The only guy who was given away was Ribeiro. I didn't like trading Lapierre, but he wasn't given away. He's a 4th line center which got an ahl player and a pick. Steckel got a pick as well. No one's going to trade the farm for a 4th liner.

As far as Grabovski, like I said earlier, he was an older prospect who proven nothing in the nhl and had no reputation like a guy like Seguin has or even Hall. We got a second and a prospect for a prospect. Just to put that into perspective...Islanders got a second for Wisniewski, a proven nhl and many people here said that was an overpayment. A better example would be Moore, Florida got a second for him and everyone lost their minds. We got a second and a prospect for a player who hadn't done anything in the nhl and wasn't considered a bluechip prospect. I'd hardly call that giving away.

The only person given away was Ribeiro.

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10-09-2011, 12:19 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I guess we doesn't include me, 'cause I do repeat I see him as a top 4. Right now, a healthy lineup would have me used Markov-Subban, McDo-Gorges, Gill-Spacek. Diaz as a replacement.
You'd see Markov-Gorges, Gill-Subban, and McDo-Spacek. And the latter would be the third pairing. Gorges and Spacek are both second-pairing D-men on most NHL clubs (yes, even Spatch); put either of them on the Rangers and they end up playing 26 minutes paired to Girardi, rather than McD. Gill-Subban as a pairing would outscore first-pairing opposition. I can concede that McD is probably at that level, but in terms of unit construction Gill has experience and prior chemistry with Subban.

Please don't oversell McDo to try to make your point; he's an excellent young D-man for his age, but on a strong blueline like Montreal, he's a bottom-pairing guy. Which is a perfectly fine thing for a 22-year-old D-man to be (and puts Subban's amazingness into perspective).

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10-09-2011, 02:03 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
A center line of Ribeiro-Grabovski and Plekanec + Lapierre would be quite good. three out of four were given away...
meh, you'd be here complaining our C are too small/soft anyway...

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10-10-2011, 01:03 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
You're so wrong it's pathetic.
Ribiero's acting in the 2004 playoffs alone makes me happy he's gone. He never would have been the player he is for dallas if he were still in montreal. Just a giant black eye. Sure, the habs didn't get much for him but that's because it was known we just wanted him GONE.

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10-10-2011, 01:42 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
meh, you'd be here complaining our C are too small/soft anyway...

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10-10-2011, 02:25 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
Grabovski = zero playoff success
Ribeiro = close to zero playoff success
Quite the assumption you've made of Grabovski there considering he's yet to play a single NHL playoff game.

And Ribeiro had 17 points in 18 games the last time the Stars made the playoffs.

And with the way Grabovski played last season (willing to take the punishment for the good of his team), I'd wager that he would be more than adequate in the playoffs.

But hey, don't let the facts get in your way, keep churning out your false assumptions based on...I don't know, what are they based on exactly? Never actually having watched the abovementioned players outside of Montreal?

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10-10-2011, 03:09 AM
  #140
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Quite the assumption you've made of Grabovski there considering he's yet to play a single NHL playoff game.

And Ribeiro had 17 points in 18 games the last time the Stars made the playoffs.

And with the way Grabovski played last season (willing to take the punishment for the good of his team), I'd wager that he would be more than adequate in the playoffs.

But hey, don't let the facts get in your way, keep churning out your false assumptions based on...I don't know, what are they based on exactly? Never actually having watched the abovementioned players outside of Montreal?
I stand/sit corrected...been wrong before! I was basing Ribeiro's playoff stats on 2-3 seasons ago... 'Cause recent 17pts in 18 games is excellent: I respect that a lot, there's nothing I like more than a player who can deliver in playoffs (but I still can't like Ribeiro!). I shouldn't comment on Ribeiro anymore! I just really didn't like him wearing the CH. Muller, Koivu, Gilmour...yes, but didn't like Ribeiro shaming the CH jersey. Ribeiro's been good for Dallas...


Grabovski: don't want him for our Habs but like you wrote...maybe he will be good for playoffs, we'll see. I still want to think that he won't be a playoffs player. The Leafs are definitely giving him many chances...low depth with centers will do that...same with Dallas.


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 10-10-2011 at 03:19 AM.
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10-10-2011, 05:23 AM
  #141
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Would you sign Bryan McCabe?

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10-10-2011, 06:26 AM
  #142
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Would you sign Bryan McCabe?
I'd rather have a healthy Campoli. By the way, I' still chuckle abut Komisarek's takeaway from McCabe followed by a breakaway goal.

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10-10-2011, 06:27 AM
  #143
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I know I'm on the minority here, and that's exactly how it's suppose to be, but other then our lack of physical defensmens, I really, really our D right now. I love the fact that we pitch in Diaz and Emelin in tough situations right off the bat in the regular season, it shows where they are and gives priceless experience for later on in the season. 2 things we can't complain right now is mobility and puck creativity. Having Subban, Weber and Diaz all on the pp doesn't hurt us at all for now, and once Markov is back we'll have a lot of (cheap salary csp wise) assets on the back-end to use.

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10-10-2011, 09:43 AM
  #144
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Okay, I have to admit the D looked a lot better against Winnipeg. I really hope they prove me wrong and that Math Man is right.

If Weber can maintain a positive attitude about his role he can be a really important part of this team. Maybe Campoli's injury will result in Martin taking a longer look at Emelin so we can see what he can contribute. Didn't something like that happen with Subban last year. It could be a silver lining.

Gill, for all his shortcomings, looks more effective to me and he is standing up for his team mates, Diaz looks more comfortable and Gorges is throwing his body all over the ice blocking shots.

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10-10-2011, 09:49 AM
  #145
Jack Bourdain
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Come into thread about "Our defense" and read about Ribeiro and Grabovski.


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10-10-2011, 10:12 AM
  #146
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Okay, I have to admit the D looked a lot better against Winnipeg. I really hope they prove me wrong and that Math Man is right.

If Weber can maintain a positive attitude about his role he can be a really important part of this team. Maybe Campoli's injury will result in Martin taking a longer look at Emelin so we can see what he can contribute. Didn't something like that happen with Subban last year. It could be a silver lining.

Gill, for all his shortcomings, looks more effective to me and he is standing up for his team mates, Diaz looks more comfortable and Gorges is throwing his body all over the ice blocking shots.
Let's keep the mentality that it's just one game and try to stay as grounded as possible, but the 3 youngsters (Diaz, Emelin and Weber) all had solid games against Winnipeg. It's hard not to be positive about it, I also thought Weber played good against Toronto (one of the few that did).

But we are a lot younger, a lot more mobile and creative from the back end then last year's version of the club. That much was evident last night, the transition game was solid. I hope of all things, Weber gets a continued look at defense and on the PP. Martin seems to have a hate on for this kid but all he needs is confidence and I've been saying it forever. He might never reach the kind of ceiling Subban can/will but I have no problems seeing him in a role where he plays 20min a night and puts up 35-40pts a year.

PP units should look like this IMO:

Subban-Weber (they can switch on the fly, would confuse opponants as both have good one-timers as well as stationary shots)

Diaz-Emelin (both see the ice well and distribute the puck well, one-timer threat from both side although not as deadly as the first wave)

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10-10-2011, 10:46 AM
  #147
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The defence has done very well, allowing 3 goals in 2 games in pretty good. One of those goals was scored on special teams, so it shouldn t even count. We killed off 2 5-3 short hand opportunities ( both were over a min.). We lost a defenceman early in each game and were able to make adjustments during the game. Diaz and Emelin should get better as they adjuste to NA game.

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10-10-2011, 11:33 AM
  #148
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Let's keep the mentality that it's just one game and try to stay as grounded as possible, but the 3 youngsters (Diaz, Emelin and Weber) all had solid games against Winnipeg. It's hard not to be positive about it, I also thought Weber played good against Toronto (one of the few that did).

But we are a lot younger, a lot more mobile and creative from the back end then last year's version of the club. That much was evident last night, the transition game was solid. I hope of all things, Weber gets a continued look at defense and on the PP. Martin seems to have a hate on for this kid but all he needs is confidence and I've been saying it forever. He might never reach the kind of ceiling Subban can/will but I have no problems seeing him in a role where he plays 20min a night and puts up 35-40pts a year.

PP units should look like this IMO:

Subban-Weber (they can switch on the fly, would confuse opponants as both have good one-timers as well as stationary shots)

Diaz-Emelin (both see the ice well and distribute the puck well, one-timer threat from both side although not as deadly as the first wave)
I said during the summer, Weber is a very good Dman. I never understood why people weren't so high on him. He was shown all the right signs. I really didn't know where Diaz and Emelin would fair off, but I had no doubt Weber was a good young D.

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10-10-2011, 11:38 AM
  #149
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Taylor Chorney is on waivers...

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10-16-2011, 03:01 PM
  #150
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So far this year, our defense has only one player who is averaging more than one hit per game and that is Emelin who is averaging two. Hal Gill. our biggest defender, is the leader(?) in futility with no hits in four games.

Maybe speed and skill will trump physical play, but I still think a team needs a little of both and we are sadly lacking in the physical area.

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