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Old
10-09-2011, 11:36 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Matteau Matteau View Post
I just don't get why a lot of people think this guy is so good. The one cup? Lots of coaches have won one cup.

He has two possible answers to every problem--bench someone, or tear up the lines, either before or during the game. Brilliant!

One cup makes you a genius, I guess.
LOL, spot on! I don't know how more people don't see this. The bold point is amusing but 100% true, which is sad. He only has two solutions for all of the teams problems, and you named them.

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10-09-2011, 11:47 AM
  #52
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IMO i think Torts has already had a neggative impact on both Stepan on Zucca... he takes what they do good, which is the creativity, and takes it away from them.. JUST PLAY HARD GUYS AND DO AS I SAY. Thats it for torts. He is not letting the creative players be creative.

He cut Averys balls off, Gabby looks awful under him, and two young players that were looking great in the early part of last season (stepan and zucc) were "molded" by torts into players that just go up and down the ice. This guy has sucked since he got here.

Oh, and how has DZ looked after being coached by Torts???? Anyone????

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10-09-2011, 12:14 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Rangers4tehwin95 View Post
do you guys think Torts is doing a good job? For this season, pre-season, camp, and for the two previous years. Is he trying to mold a team into his little ball and try to make it into the Bolts during their championship year?? And if we were to get rid of him, would Mike Sullivan be our coach??
thought, comments questions please
This season preseason and camp? Huh? I think you know as soon as you typed this how bad this question is. We've already discussed how we feel ad nauseum about the two years preceding this and we don't really get to see camp. Regardless it's the same kind of camp and preseason they always have so why would we say anything different than we've said the last two times? Only difference is they had a nightmarish travel schedule and a lot less practice which is poor decision making by the front office and management so really you're asking everyone to jump the gun with an ill informed opinion that will either be completely irrational or just be a rehash of exactly what we've said for two years prior to this.

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10-09-2011, 12:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by 92hatchattack View Post
IMO i think Torts has already had a neggative impact on both Stepan on Zucca... he takes what they do good, which is the creativity, and takes it away from them.. JUST PLAY HARD GUYS AND DO AS I SAY. Thats it for torts. He is not letting the creative players be creative.

He cut Averys balls off, Gabby looks awful under him, and two young players that were looking great in the early part of last season (stepan and zucc) were "molded" by torts into players that just go up and down the ice. This guy has sucked since he got here.

Oh, and how has DZ looked after being coached by Torts???? Anyone????
Seems like you're taking a fair share of blame that belongs on the players here.
Avery blew in Dallas and nobody wanted him for a reason. Torts started by giving him an enormous chance with a lot of top line time when he was playing smart and earned it. The league then clearly blackballed Avery with horrid calls and non calls and Torts went to bat criticizing the refs and league for it. Avery got older, unfocused and worse. I always believed Torts didn't like Avery but my eyes told me he was much more fair with Avery then most people will ever admit.

Gabby played with a waiver wire pickup and finally gets a playmaking top notch centerman and gets no practice time with him. How was his first year under Torts? After this year is over (not just the paltry two games we are using here) we can make a much better judgement but I think most of this is Gabs injury and lack of linemates. Remember Gabs first half a year here was fantastic. Since then teams gameplan more to stop him. He needs Brad and the 2nd line to step up and draw that pressure away from him. Unfortunately I think Anisimov and stepan still need another year before either is ready to take enough pressure away from Gabs and the 1st line. Stepan had a great rookie season and Zuke was abused based on his size. DO you really not recognize how hard Zuke's size made it for him to be the playmaker that he was in the SEL? Not to mention the rink size difference.

Torts has been wayyyy too hard oN DZ tho. DZ has also made an enormous amount of stupid stupid plays like the one yesterday where he skated into his own zone and lost the damn puck nearly.

Point is you're putting waaaaaay too much blame on Torts for a lot of stuff that is developmental normal growing pains, injuries which are normal and Sather's bad job assembling a top line.

Plus look at how Cally, Dubs, Anisimov, Staal< Girardi, Sauer, McD, Prust, Boyle all grew under the guy. I really like the way you stretch to blame him for way too much stuff and then fail to give him any credit.

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10-09-2011, 12:45 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Matteau Matteau View Post
I just don't get why a lot of people think this guy is so good. The one cup? Lots of coaches have won one cup.
Most coaches never win a Stanley Cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92hatchattack View Post
IMO i think Torts has already had a neggative impact on both Stepan on Zucca... he takes what they do good, which is the creativity, and takes it away from them.. JUST PLAY HARD GUYS AND DO AS I SAY. Thats it for torts. He is not letting the creative players be creative.
Torts has a negative impact on Stepan? Steps came to camp, earned a spot, and Torts did him right by keeping him on our starting roster. Stepan responded by having a 20G rookie season.

Torts is offering Stepan and Zuccarello all the freedom in the world, by playing them together. Zucs could easily be replaced. Torts is giving him time. He did all last season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 92hatchattack View Post
He cut Averys balls off, Gabby looks awful under him, and two young players that were looking great in the early part of last season (stepan and zucc) were "molded" by torts into players that just go up and down the ice. This guy has sucked since he got here.

Oh, and how has DZ looked after being coached by Torts???? Anyone????
MDZ is yet another young player Torts is trying to develop. Starting him his rookie season was a ballllllssssssyyyyy move by Torts. MDZ's the youngest player in the history of our long franchise to start opening night. Del Zotto's defense was too much a liability, and Torts did the right thing by sending him last year.

Some of you guys are too young to recall how things have been for decades and decades. Criticizing Torts for having the balls to do the right thing and give a kid a chance. Fools.

And Torts didn't cut Avery's balls off. Sean's big mouth is the main culprit for his demise. He blatantly gets taken down in front of refs, and nothings called. Yet if he farts towards the oppositions direction, he gets a trip to the box. His reputation has ruined his career. He's 100% responsible for that. Only someone looking for excuses would blame Torts.

--

I find it extremely amusing that some people here hating on Torts, also hated on Renney. Two extreme opposites, despised by the same crowd.

Some of you guys are just looking for excuses.

In 2 weeks we'll see a Torts appreciation thread. A month later we'll revisit this thread. When we make the playoffs Torts will be a good coach. And if we don't sweep our way to a Stanley Cup, Torts will suck ass.

I personally like Torts. I like his forechecking system. I like his straight-forward approach. I like the things some of his former players have said about him. I like that he speaks the truth. I like that he plays our young guys. I like that he didn't hold back when asked about some of our dead-weight, like Redden, Drury, Gomez.

Prust was a solid player as a Flame, but he's playing better under Torts. Boyle is another player that's improved under Torts. He's utilized veterans like Prospal and Feds. Marian Gaborik had a career year under Torts, w/o a freaking Center.

If you want to dislike him because of his personality, that's fine. Doesn't make him a bad coach.

Look at how many key players missed numerous games last season. We had no 1st line. Staal, Dubinsky, and Callahan missed time. Girardi finally got injured after going like, 200+ consecutive games. Gaborik was injured. As was Prospal. Yet we made the playoffs. I don't think that happens with a 'bad coach'.

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10-09-2011, 12:49 PM
  #56
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The only credit I have for Torts is he does in fact get his players to work hard. But thats only half the answer. There needs to be a game plan. There needs to be in game adjustments to how they are handling a specific team, not just line jugling. There needs to be a ay for us to score goals on the powerplay. Something is missing. I love our lineup this year, but I still dont have a great feeling about having a good year. I hope I am wrong, though it pisses me off how Torts acts like the best guy in the world when we are winning, and act like a ****ing baby when things dont go his way. The act is getting old fast.

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10-09-2011, 01:08 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by 92hatchattack View Post
The only credit I have for Torts is he does in fact get his players to work hard. But thats only half the answer. There needs to be a game plan. There needs to be in game adjustments to how they are handling a specific team, not just line jugling. There needs to be a ay for us to score goals on the powerplay. Something is missing. I love our lineup this year, but I still dont have a great feeling about having a good year. I hope I am wrong, though it pisses me off how Torts acts like the best guy in the world when we are winning, and act like a ****ing baby when things dont go his way. The act is getting old fast.
The game plan is to win the game. We're not talking about amatuer players who need to get over-coached. These guys have been playing the game for decades. They know what they're doing.

The system he operates is a simple, and effective 3-2/2-1-2 forecheck. Depending on the type of defense we're playing, he tweaks things up.

My only real issues with Torts, is he hasn't been able to fix our PP. And he switches up lines too quickly. I don't think his grueling camp benefits the team much in the long-run. Players like Jim Kelly praised Marv Levy for his relaxed camps. They felt they had more endurance throughout the season.

Hockey's a simple game. It's you versus your opposition. It's never the players fault with some of you guys. Aside for a handful of our guys, the players themselves should be held accountable for their lack of performance so far. Why isn't Ryan Callahan struggling with his effectiveness under Torts? He seems to be doing fine with the system.

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10-09-2011, 01:20 PM
  #58
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ive grown to become a fan of torts. when he was first hired i was like schucks not him again lol. i think he really has a say in our front office ( i think he also helped curb sather a little bit). even if we do bad this season he won't be fired this year i highly doubt it. put it this way if torts isnt our coach, who would u guys want to have to coach our team?

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10-09-2011, 02:21 PM
  #59
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His line juggling and benching is a sign of great impatience, thats a big fault I think.
Let the lines mold and develop over some time, "Rome wasnt built in one day" somebody should scream in Torts ears...
Consistency in every part is vital to have success.

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10-09-2011, 02:37 PM
  #60
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I feel as though people exaggerate the effects a coach has on his team, although, it's tough to do so when, in reality, you have no idea what the coach really does with the team; in that we, as fans, really have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, and how the players feel about their coach, although we all like to speculate about it.

I will say this: John Tortorella is one of the better coaches in the league, and a successful one. A coach who has had success with the team's best forward in the past, and a coach who has gone all the way, winning the Cup. However, he has his flaws, like moist coaches do. The flaw being that he is relatively one-dimensional, a trait that is common to most coaches in this league; saying that, he is probably the best "one-dimensional" coach in this league. There are two types of coaches, really. You have your motivators, and you have your tacticians. Then, you have your coaches who are a little bit of both. Tortorella is the former, although he certainly isn't a terrible strategic coach. At the moment, I'd say Tortorella is the perfect coach for this team; he relates to them, in a sense. The team we have is, on the whole, a hard-working, smart, blue-collar team that doesn't let up, and that's Tortoerlla's preferred style.

IMO, the only reason people are questioning Tortorella is because of the success the team has had thus far uder his tutelage. While he certainly plays a part in that, the onus isn't completely on him. No, a lot of the onus falls on the general manager for not providing the coach with a team capable of winning; given what he's had to work with, I'd say Tortorella has done an exceptional job with this team. Let's be honest, how many of us saw the team doing as well as it did last year, especially with Gaborik and Prospal being out as long as they were? I don't blame him for the "constant line juggling", given what he had to work with; the only legitkimately "set" line he had was the Pack Line. Tortorella got the best out of nearly all his players it seems, and that's an important thing going forward for any team. Now, with one of the better looking rosters in the league, Tortorella should be able to excel. I'd give him more than two games to judge that.

Bottom line, I'd say Torts has done a very solid job with the organization, and he may be a long term option for this clue. Time will tell, though.

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Old
10-09-2011, 02:40 PM
  #61
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10-09-2011, 05:04 PM
  #62
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Meh idk its hard to say...if they dont make a significant improvement this year then I say its time to go...hes had the same team behind him for a few seasons now so our chemistry should be amazing...and so far with the first 2 games it has looked non existent. Like I said ill be patient but our PP is awful and we look lost so far...we will see though, we need 20-30 games to make a decision like that.

You just cant help but think that MAYBE another coach out there will make a huge difference since we have some great talent on all of our lines + one of the best goalies in the NHL.

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10-09-2011, 05:20 PM
  #63
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People always look at the coach when the team plays like ****, and then never praise him when the team plays well. This is especially true here with Torts.

My take? The coach has a much smaller impact than people like to suggest and it's up to the players to play like they should. Just my opinion.

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10-09-2011, 05:54 PM
  #64
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I seem to recall Mike Keenan getting off to a bad start in the 1993-1994 season which included a VERY BAD embarassing loss to the MIGHTY Ducks in which we lost 5-2 and Terry fricking Yake scored a Hatrick. I remember that game like it was yesterday. Mike Keenan then took a stick, after the game was over, in the lockeroom and slashed it over something and broke it like a mad man. Only difference is, back then you didn't have a bunch of people crying and acting like babies over EVERYTHING and every little move their teams, players and coaches did back then. Just saying.

Unlike today where you have people acting like a psycho (not directed at anyone here. Just in general in New York.) over every move of their teams, players and coaches.

I'm convinced most of these people just like to hear themselves complain.

I for one am happy the job Tortorella has done. He's probably one of the only reasons and a big reason our "great" General Moron hasn't traded away most of our youth or core yet. Don't believe me? I seem to recall Tortorella in an article a season ago basically telling Sather not to **** up and trade away our youth or something to that effect.

Who else has the BALLS to say that to Sather? NO ONE!!! It certainly wasn't nice guy Mr. politically correct, sexy sandpaper, Tom Renney. I'll tell you that much.

He has done an excellent job in molding these guys or players.

But wait, give me back Muckler, Lowe, Trottier,and Renney!

Bottomline is this: Tortorella has done a great job with the players he has been given to him by the arrogant, cigar smoking one.

Let Tortorella do his job. I don't even remember this many people up in arms over a coach for the Rangers ever. Is it because we fired a nice guy? I don't get it. Not even Muckler, Lowe, Trottier, Renney (to his credit he helped get us back to respectability , but is certainly not the coach to take this team to the next level) took this much heat, and 3 of those coaches didn't have a clue. Sure there were chants about firing each of those coaches, but I don't think those coaches moves were coming under scrutiny like Tortorella's has.

We finally have a coach that doesn't take anyones b.s., and holds players accountable, which is what everyone was always screaming about all these years, and people are now disappointed, and upset with the coach again because of those things, or how he handles certain things?

Tortorella, for better or for worse is the right guy for this job. Like it or not.

He's done a great job with our youth.

Tortorella has calmed down with the media too, and doesn't act out much anymore.

I really could care less if Tortorella's not a nice guy to the media. Just let him coach this team until he's either fired or his contract isn't renewed. And if/when that happens, I wont lose any sleep over it. I just don't want him to be fired all of a sudden because we get off to a bad start, or because some fans don't like him. That's all.


Last edited by 94Obsession: 10-09-2011 at 06:12 PM.
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10-09-2011, 06:25 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
People always look at the coach when the team plays like ****, and then never praise him when the team plays well. This is especially true here with Torts.

My take? The coach has a much smaller impact than people like to suggest and it's up to the players to play like they should. Just my opinion.
I dont buy this AT ALL. Look at Tampa bay with Barry Melrose and look at Pittsburgh Penguins with Dan Bylsma. Both teams got significantly better after changing coaches. Now I'm not saying that if we replaced Torts that would happen but coaches need to take blame as well, especially our Power Play. Our PP has looked awful ever since torts got here...Regardless I like the guy and think hes a good coach and DO NOT think we need to replace him yet.

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10-09-2011, 06:45 PM
  #66
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My problem with Torts is that he tries to mold players to fit what he thinks they should be, where at this level and this day in the NHL a coach should get the best out of a player for the type of player they are, that being said I think it's too early in the season to think about removing him, I'm reading soooo many overreactions 2 games into a season where we snagged 2 out of a possible 4 points.

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10-10-2011, 12:57 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by 94Obsession View Post
I seem to recall Mike Keenan getting off to a bad start in the 1993-1994 season which included a VERY BAD embarassing loss to the MIGHTY Ducks in which we lost 5-2 and Terry fricking Yake scored a Hatrick. I remember that game like it was yesterday. Mike Keenan then took a stick, after the game was over, in the lockeroom and slashed it over something and broke it like a mad man. Only difference is, back then you didn't have a bunch of people crying and acting like babies over EVERYTHING and every little move their teams, players and coaches did back then. Just saying.

Unlike today where you have people acting like a psycho (not directed at anyone here. Just in general in New York.) over every move of their teams, players and coaches.

I'm convinced most of these people just like to hear themselves complain.

I for one am happy the job Tortorella has done. He's probably one of the only reasons and a big reason our "great" General Moron hasn't traded away most of our youth or core yet. Don't believe me? I seem to recall Tortorella in an article a season ago basically telling Sather not to **** up and trade away our youth or something to that effect.

Who else has the BALLS to say that to Sather? NO ONE!!! It certainly wasn't nice guy Mr. politically correct, sexy sandpaper, Tom Renney. I'll tell you that much.

He has done an excellent job in molding these guys or players.

But wait, give me back Muckler, Lowe, Trottier,and Renney!

Bottomline is this: Tortorella has done a great job with the players he has been given to him by the arrogant, cigar smoking one.

Let Tortorella do his job. I don't even remember this many people up in arms over a coach for the Rangers ever. Is it because we fired a nice guy? I don't get it. Not even Muckler, Lowe, Trottier, Renney (to his credit he helped get us back to respectability , but is certainly not the coach to take this team to the next level) took this much heat, and 3 of those coaches didn't have a clue. Sure there were chants about firing each of those coaches, but I don't think those coaches moves were coming under scrutiny like Tortorella's has.

We finally have a coach that doesn't take anyones b.s., and holds players accountable, which is what everyone was always screaming about all these years, and people are now disappointed, and upset with the coach again because of those things, or how he handles certain things?

Tortorella, for better or for worse is the right guy for this job. Like it or not.

He's done a great job with our youth.

Tortorella has calmed down with the media too, and doesn't act out much anymore.

I really could care less if Tortorella's not a nice guy to the media. Just let him coach this team until he's either fired or his contract isn't renewed. And if/when that happens, I wont lose any sleep over it. I just don't want him to be fired all of a sudden because we get off to a bad start, or because some fans don't like him. That's all.
Boom. Headshot.

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10-10-2011, 01:00 AM
  #68
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I dont buy this AT ALL. Look at Tampa bay with Barry Melrose and look at Pittsburgh Penguins with Dan Bylsma. Both teams got significantly better after changing coaches. Now I'm not saying that if we replaced Torts that would happen but coaches need to take blame as well, especially our Power Play. Our PP has looked awful ever since torts got here...Regardless I like the guy and think hes a good coach and DO NOT think we need to replace him yet.
So if this is true, then Torts should also get credit for helping and allowing guys like Dubinsky and Callahan evolve into the leaders of the team.

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10-10-2011, 01:00 AM
  #69
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10-10-2011, 01:32 AM
  #70
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There is certainly worse than him out there and he is a good coach.

But it's becoming clear that as a NYR he rather be a defensive teacher/disciplinarian than a coach who lets the scorers score and the grinders grind.

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10-10-2011, 01:38 AM
  #71
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Zucc sat on the bench for almost 12 minutes before getting the nod to go out there and try to save the day...A great thinking coach would've had him out there on the 4 on 4 sudden death period...

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10-10-2011, 03:29 AM
  #72
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If we lost 1 game, and won 1 game, we would have the same amount of points.

This thread is utterly ridiculous.
I don't agree, then we could just shut down the entire boards for the first 41 games.

Of course we won't struggle all year. Nobody is saying that it is the end of the world.

But we showed up utterly unprepaired (against teams playing under the same conditions as we did).

IMO we are winning despite Torts not because of him. And the reason is that we are playing pre-lockout hockey in the post-lockout era. We are putting way to little focus on puckmanagement and the transition game. And that was very obvious this weekend and it was often very obvious last season.

I am worried not for if this team will struggle this season, but for a much much much worse scenario, that we to a big extent is going in the wrong direction. Defensively, on the forecheck and in the attacking zone we are on track, or some sort of track at least. But in terms of the transitiongame we are going 180 degrees in the other direction compared to any good team in this league. When do we realize that???

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10-10-2011, 05:21 AM
  #73
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Zucc sat on the bench for almost 12 minutes before getting the nod to go out there and try to save the day...A great thinking coach would've had him out there on the 4 on 4 sudden death period...
Not if the coach feels he's a defensive liability in 4v4. You can't blame his failiure to lift the puck on him being cold.

A guy didn't earn his icetime and the coach didn't play him a whole lot. And you want to fire the coach? Seriously, you're such a homer for the little guy, it's not even funny.

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10-10-2011, 06:37 AM
  #74
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So how about on opening night we start booing Torts right away, as soon as he comes out of the locker room? Before the gam even starts. Yeah, that'll show'em.

It's no good if we win anyway, they'll just raise ticket prices.

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10-10-2011, 06:46 AM
  #75
SupersonicMonkey*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Most coaches never win a Stanley Cup.



Torts has a negative impact on Stepan? Steps came to camp, earned a spot, and Torts did him right by keeping him on our starting roster. Stepan responded by having a 20G rookie season.

Torts is offering Stepan and Zuccarello all the freedom in the world, by playing them together. Zucs could easily be replaced. Torts is giving him time. He did all last season.




MDZ is yet another young player Torts is trying to develop. Starting him his rookie season was a ballllllssssssyyyyy move by Torts. MDZ's the youngest player in the history of our long franchise to start opening night. Del Zotto's defense was too much a liability, and Torts did the right thing by sending him last year.

Some of you guys are too young to recall how things have been for decades and decades. Criticizing Torts for having the balls to do the right thing and give a kid a chance. Fools.

And Torts didn't cut Avery's balls off. Sean's big mouth is the main culprit for his demise. He blatantly gets taken down in front of refs, and nothings called. Yet if he farts towards the oppositions direction, he gets a trip to the box. His reputation has ruined his career. He's 100% responsible for that. Only someone looking for excuses would blame Torts.

--

I find it extremely amusing that some people here hating on Torts, also hated on Renney. Two extreme opposites, despised by the same crowd.

Some of you guys are just looking for excuses.

In 2 weeks we'll see a Torts appreciation thread. A month later we'll revisit this thread. When we make the playoffs Torts will be a good coach. And if we don't sweep our way to a Stanley Cup, Torts will suck ass.

I personally like Torts. I like his forechecking system. I like his straight-forward approach. I like the things some of his former players have said about him. I like that he speaks the truth. I like that he plays our young guys. I like that he didn't hold back when asked about some of our dead-weight, like Redden, Drury, Gomez.

Prust was a solid player as a Flame, but he's playing better under Torts. Boyle is another player that's improved under Torts. He's utilized veterans like Prospal and Feds. Marian Gaborik had a career year under Torts, w/o a freaking Center.

If you want to dislike him because of his personality, that's fine. Doesn't make him a bad coach.

Look at how many key players missed numerous games last season. We had no 1st line. Staal, Dubinsky, and Callahan missed time. Girardi finally got injured after going like, 200+ consecutive games. Gaborik was injured. As was Prospal. Yet we made the playoffs. I don't think that happens with a 'bad coach'.
I agree.

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