HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Betts returned to Philly — fails physical with Habs

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-09-2011, 06:03 PM
  #126
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMISSmyCANNON View Post
This is just dumb. Since when did Betts become so terrible?
betts isnt terrible per say, but he offers nothing to this team. We have replaced him with faster, more aggresive, and more offensively gifted players on the pk(4 breakaways on the pk so far), and he will bring the fourth line down because he is slow and cannot get in on the forecheck.

He doesnt fit the attacking system we play.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:06 PM
  #127
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,769
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
I'll take Zac's speed over Blair Betts moving slower then a snail.
Speed isn't the only thing that makes a hockey player. By all indications, Riley Cote is a better hockey player than Rinaldo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
betts isnt terrible per say, but he offers nothing to this team. We have replaced him with faster, more aggresive, and more offensively gifted players on the pk(4 breakaways on the pk so far), and he will bring the fourth line down because he is slow and cannot get in on the forecheck.

He doesnt fit the attacking system we play.
Rinaldo offers less to this team than Betts. He offers less offensive ability, inexperienced (at best) defensive play, and stupid penalties.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:08 PM
  #128
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Speed isn't the only thing that makes a hockey player. By all indications, Riley Cote is a better hockey player than Rinaldo.
this is true, but betts doesnt have any other qualities to make up for his horrific lack of speed. We need fast gritty players on the 4th line, who can crash, and forecheck hard, betts will drag this 4th line through the mud with his inability to get to pucks, and get on the other teams defense quickly.

First argument will be his defensive play, but we have nodl and talbot on that line which is enough to make up for the other player, betts better be good at defense because when he is on the ice the puck is in our zone constantly because he cannot make anything happen.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:11 PM
  #129
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Speed isn't the only thing that makes a hockey player. By all indications, Riley Cote is a better hockey player than Rinaldo.



Rinaldo offers less to this team than Betts. He offers less offensive ability, inexperienced (at best) defensive play, and stupid penalties.
noone can offer less than betts offensively, and this cannot be justified because rinaldo has played 2 nhl games. IF you watch the 4th line so far they are always on the attack, play with speed, and lay the body. They have cycled the puck well, and have rarely been trapped in their own zone because of the attacking play. It isnt what rinaldo brings by himself, but it is what he does to compliment the line, something betts will just bring down because his style wont fit this line.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:13 PM
  #130
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
i would rather see rinaldo , harry z, holmstrom, or wellwood before betts brings down the 4th line.
I stated over the summer that I wouldn't mind seeing some of the Phantoms, such as Holmstrom or Wellwood, come in and steal the spots from guys like Betts and Nödl. With the way our team went this off season though, counting on them to take on those roles before they really show that they can handle it is too big of a gamble for my liking however.

If we had kept some more of our past pkers, it would have made it a lot easier to accept waiving Betts. So far our pk looks really good, but it's only been two games. I'd like to have seen them do it for a bit longer before I trusted two rookies and a sophomore to be on our pk units, without much options to replace them in case they falter.

It wouldn't be the first time players look really good and confident in preseason only to fail miserably when the intensity level goes up. What would we have done if that was the case? Trade for a fourth line center?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think I'd still rather see Betts playing over Rinaldo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
An injured Betts is a solid upgrade over Rinaldo.
With the information I have to go on (that is watching last seasons and this preseason), I'd have kept Betts up over Rinaldo as well. If his injuries are that much of a concern though, then I can see why Holmgren and Laviolette went in this direction (though I might have preferred having Holmstrom or Wellwood up instead of Rinaldo).

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:14 PM
  #131
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,769
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
this is true, but betts doesnt have any other qualities to make up for his horrific lack of speed. We need fast gritty players on the 4th line, who can crash, and forecheck hard, betts will drag this 4th line through the mud with his inability to get to pucks, and get on the other teams defense quickly.

First argument will be his defensive play, but we have nodl and talbot on that line which is enough to make up for the other player, betts better be good at defense because when he is on the ice the puck is in our zone constantly because he cannot make anything happen.
If the other two players can make up for Rinaldo and his lack of skill, why can't they cover for Betts then? Expecially when you consider that Betts is better than Rinaldo?

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:17 PM
  #132
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If the other two players can make up for Rinaldo and his lack of skill, why can't they cover for Betts then? Expecially when you consider that Betts is better than Rinaldo?
they are not making up for his lack of skill they make up for his lack of defensive awareness which hasnt seemed that bad. They cannot make up for betts lack of speed, his inability to get on the forecheck, and his below average grittyness/physicality (due to injuries). This line has looked great because of their tenacity, and speed to the puck, I cannot stress enough how betts alone will kill this, and is just a weak link at this point.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:24 PM
  #133
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
noone can offer less than betts offensively, and this cannot be justified because rinaldo has played 2 nhl games. IF you watch the 4th line so far they are always on the attack, play with speed, and lay the body. They have cycled the puck well, and have rarely been trapped in their own zone because of the attacking play. It isnt what rinaldo brings by himself, but it is what he does to compliment the line, something betts will just bring down because his style wont fit this line.
Zac Rinaldo had more suspensions than goals scored in the AHL. Betts doesn't offer much offensively, but Rinaldo had even less offense in the AHL. How do you figure he will offer more than Betts in the NHL? If you can't score in juniors or the AHL you aren't going to miraculously grow skill in the NHL.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:25 PM
  #134
DeflatedFootball7
Registered User
 
DeflatedFootball7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Belleville
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,945
vCash: 500
The only change I want right now is Schenn being recalled. I do not want Betts being a part of this team anymore. We have way better options now. All he gave was PK. And it's fine without him.

DeflatedFootball7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:26 PM
  #135
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
The only change I want right now is Schenn being recalled. I do not want Betts being a part of this team anymore. We have way better options now. All he gave was PK. And it's fine without him.
Which means Rinaldo is gone.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:28 PM
  #136
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
they are not making up for his lack of skill they make up for his lack of defensive awareness which hasnt seemed that bad. They cannot make up for betts lack of speed, his inability to get on the forecheck, and his below average grittyness/physicality (due to injuries). This line has looked great because of their tenacity, and speed to the puck, I cannot stress enough how betts alone will kill this, and is just a weak link at this point.
Betts is not a speedster, and Rinaldo definitely has him beaten in that regard, but I don't perceive him to be as slow as you make him out to be. It's not like your watching someone move in slow motion when he's out there.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:28 PM
  #137
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Zac Rinaldo had more suspensions than goals scored in the AHL. Betts doesn't offer much offensively, but Rinaldo had even less offense in the AHL. How do you figure he will offer more than Betts in the NHL? If you can't score in juniors or the AHL you aren't going to miraculously grow skill in the NHL.
It is safe to say we arent relying on either of them to score. We are relying on the 4th line to crash, be hard on the forecheck, and play with speed and tenacity, something betts cannot do.

He can play the pk, but like I said we have younger, faster, more aggresive/skilled players on the pk now. You arent no gonna see 3 shorthanded breakaways in one game on the pk with betts playing.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:31 PM
  #138
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
It is safe to say we arent relying on either of them to score. We are relying on the 4th line to crash, be hard on the forecheck, and play with speed and tenacity, something betts cannot do.

He can play the pk, but like I said we have younger, faster, more aggresive/skilled players on the pk now. You arent no gonna see 3 shorthanded breakaways in one game on the pk with betts playing.
You do realize the Flyers did exactly that and had arguably the best 4th line in the league with Betts as the center? They also won't need to double shift for Betts like they do with Rinaldo since Laviolette doesn't actually trust Rinaldo to be given many minutes.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:33 PM
  #139
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
It is safe to say we arent relying on either of them to score. We are relying on the 4th line to crash, be hard on the forecheck, and play with speed and tenacity, something betts cannot do.

He can play the pk, but like I said we have younger, faster, more aggresive/skilled players on the pk now. You arent no gonna see 3 shorthanded breakaways in one game on the pk with betts playing.
You might wanna think back and remember how many breakaways we had while shorthanded in the beginninig of the last season. Granted it was mostly Giroux on the second, and Powe on the first who got them, but still. I'm always struck by the almost pond hockey-like quality of team defense that the teams in the NHL displays in the first few weeks of every season.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:34 PM
  #140
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
You do realize the Flyers did exactly that and had arguably the best 4th line in the league with Betts as the center? They also won't need to double shift for Betts like they do with Rinaldo since Laviolette doesn't actually trust Rinaldo to be given many minutes.
In the past two games our 4th line has looked better than it did at any point last year.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:36 PM
  #141
DeflatedFootball7
Registered User
 
DeflatedFootball7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Belleville
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,945
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Zac Rinaldo had more suspensions than goals scored in the AHL. Betts doesn't offer much offensively, but Rinaldo had even less offense in the AHL. How do you figure he will offer more than Betts in the NHL? If you can't score in juniors or the AHL you aren't going to miraculously grow skill in the NHL.
As true as this is Betts isn't worth it anymore. Zac isn't a skill player but he can still bring some speed and forechecking on the 4th line. Betts can't even do that anymore. His defense has all but evaporated. He just takes up a pointless contract in the organization which is better served having Couts take his spot and have double the offense.

DeflatedFootball7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:37 PM
  #142
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
In the past two games our 4th line has looked better than it did at any point last year.
That might have more to with Shelley not being on it, than Betts not being there though.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:38 PM
  #143
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
As true as this is Betts isn't worth it anymore. Zac isn't a skill player but he can still bring some speed and forechecking on the 4th line. Betts can't even do that anymore. His defense has all but evaporated. He just takes up a pointless contract in the organization which is better served having Couts take his spot and have double the offense.
exactly, betts doesnt bring anythign this 4th line needs, rinaldo does.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:39 PM
  #144
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
In the past two games our 4th line has looked better than it did at any point last year.
If that is true that would be because we don't have Jody Shelley weighing down the 4th line while he is suspended. Rinaldo has only been on the ice like half of the time with Nodl and Talbot since Laviolette double shifts other forwards in Rinaldo's place.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:43 PM
  #145
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
If that is true that would be because we don't have Jody Shelley weighing down the 4th line while he is suspended. Rinaldo has only been on the ice like half of the time with Nodl and Talbot since Laviolette double shifts other forwards in Rinaldo's place.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. He has 6.51 toi/g so far while Nödl has 10.52, but only 7.48 of that is on even strength, the rest is on the pk. So Rinaldo is only sat for about two shifts or so per game, I'd say.

Still, with someone like a (healthy enough) Betts out there, you'd have someone that could take pk time if necessary as well.

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:43 PM
  #146
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
If that is true that would be because we don't have Jody Shelley weighing down the 4th line while he is suspended. Rinaldo has only been on the ice like half of the time with Nodl and Talbot since Laviolette double shifts other forwards in Rinaldo's place.
I rarely saw (if any) a regular shift of the 4th line where rinaldo wasnt on the ice with nodl and talbot. Not sure how many times he was double shifted over, there ice time increases big time when they are killing 6 penalties a game.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:44 PM
  #147
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 30,695
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
exactly, betts doesnt bring anythign this 4th line needs, rinaldo does.
it is afterall mandatory to have a player with Rinaldo's "skillset" on the roster. violation of said rule would cause Flyer fans to riot.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:44 PM
  #148
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
As true as this is Betts isn't worth it anymore. Zac isn't a skill player but he can still bring some speed and forechecking on the 4th line. Betts can't even do that anymore. His defense has all but evaporated. He just takes up a pointless contract in the organization which is better served having Couts take his spot and have double the offense.
Incorrect. The majority of his starts last year were in the defensive zone and he did a great job at pushing the play forward. He also had the 2nd lowest goals against per 60 behind Carter amongst our centers. Betts is still a valuable defensive forward.

Haute Couturier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:47 PM
  #149
Snipsnap12
Registered User
 
Snipsnap12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Incorrect. The majority of his starts last year were in the defensive zone and he did a great job at pushing the play forward. He also had the 2nd lowest goals against per 60 behind Carter amongst our centers. Betts is still a valuable defensive forward.
when he is on the ice he cannot make anything happen other than "playing good positionally in the d zone", good thing he has that skill set because that is always where he is.

Snipsnap12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-09-2011, 06:50 PM
  #150
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,769
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
when he is on the ice he cannot make anything happen other than "playing good positionally in the d zone", good thing he has that skill set because that is always where he is.
Probably because that's where Lavi elected to use him.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.