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Betts returned to Philly — fails physical with Habs

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Old
10-10-2011, 11:43 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Joking, not speculating. Nobody was willing to take Walker on waivers let alone trade for him.
oh someone will take him. if we included that 2nd rounder we have along with him.

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10-10-2011, 12:04 PM
  #202
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oh someone will take him. if we included that 2nd rounder we have along with him.
They could luck out one way. Dallas is now under the cap floor so maybe they'll take Walker to get over the floor. Mind you, it's not like there aren't other available players out there.

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10-10-2011, 12:10 PM
  #203
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oh someone will take him. if we included that 2nd rounder we have along with him.
Yeah was about to say. Don't laugh, we still have a second rounder

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10-10-2011, 12:13 PM
  #204
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They could luck out one way. Dallas is now under the cap floor so maybe they'll take Walker to get over the floor. Mind you, it's not like there aren't other available players out there.
That would be nice, but I wouldn't count on it. As you say, they could just sign one of the remaining ufa's. I'd look for one that is old enough to be given bonuses to count against the cap. Didn't Madden win a cup with Nieuwendyk? Maybe he doesn't want to move to Dallas though. Grier could be an option as well I think. If they want a defender, Bryan McCabe is still out there as well.

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10-10-2011, 12:20 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
They could luck out one way. Dallas is now under the cap floor so maybe they'll take Walker to get over the floor. Mind you, it's not like there aren't other available players out there.
Wouldn't that be at half price though because he already cleared waivers? Or does re-entry only apply if a guy has been sent down to the AHL?

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10-10-2011, 12:23 PM
  #206
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Wouldn't that be at half price though because he already cleared waivers? Or does re-entry only apply if a guy has been sent down to the AHL?
All I know is they're below the floor because Avery is in the AHL.
I saw it on twitter earlier today.

Edit: They're not below it, just re-read the tweet. They're near it so as long as they stay above they won't be doing us any favours.


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10-10-2011, 12:28 PM
  #207
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Wouldn't that be at half price though because he already cleared waivers? Or does re-entry only apply if a guy has been sent down to the AHL?
I don't think so. We could either trade him, or waive him again. He doesn't have to go through recall waivers until he's actually been sent down. I think, at least.

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10-10-2011, 12:30 PM
  #208
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Yeah was about to say. Don't laugh, we still have a second rounder
we will probably trade the rights to the Florida pick as well which could be 12 or 13 2nd rounder.

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10-10-2011, 01:11 PM
  #209
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Betts said the Flyers cleared him but the Habs did an MRI on his knee and sent him back. He said it's been giving him grief for a while now and is looking at possible surgery so he can keep playing. So how is it one team says he's ok but another says no (after medical proof) and the player himself says he may need surgery?

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10-10-2011, 01:16 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Betts said the Flyers cleared him but the Habs did an MRI on his knee and sent him back. He said it's been giving him grief for a while now and is looking at possible surgery so he can keep playing. So how is it one team says he's ok but another says no (after medical proof) and the player himself says he may need surgery?
I'm not sure the Flyers are very good at assessing when players need surgery. First there was Richards' wrist, and now we've got this Betts mess.

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10-10-2011, 01:21 PM
  #211
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Betts said the Flyers cleared him but the Habs did an MRI on his knee and sent him back. He said it's been giving him grief for a while now and is looking at possible surgery so he can keep playing. So how is it one team says he's ok but another says no (after medical proof) and the player himself says he may need surgery?
Darn the Canadiens for actually consulting licensed doctors and using advanced medical diagnostic procedures!

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10-10-2011, 01:43 PM
  #212
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Darn the Canadiens for actually consulting licensed doctors and using advanced medical diagnostic procedures!
I didn't know hockey teams could do that.

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10-10-2011, 02:10 PM
  #213
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I don't know why the majority of the debate on here is Betts vs. Rinaldo when the undisputed lowest common denominator is Shelley. If anyone should be making that long bus ride to Adirondack, it is him.

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10-10-2011, 03:53 PM
  #214
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I don't know why the majority of the debate on here is Betts vs. Rinaldo when the undisputed lowest common denominator is Shelley. If anyone should be making that long bus ride to Adirondack, it is him.
We're basing some of this on realism. It's not realistic that Holmgren will send Shelley to the minors, whether or not he should or should not is irrelevant.

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10-10-2011, 04:34 PM
  #215
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I'm not sure the Flyers are very good at assessing when players need surgery. First there was Richards' wrist, and now we've got this Betts mess.
Just for the record, the player has final say on whether to elect Surgery, not the team. The team just gives the player the choices he has, and the prognosis for those choices. Such as you can have surgery now, and you'll be out for whatever. Or it won't get worse and you can try to play through it and get it taken care of in the off season. It was Richards decision not to do the surgery until after the Season. Not the teams.

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10-10-2011, 04:39 PM
  #216
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"The whole situation, the last four or five days, has been strange,"he said. "I donít even know if thatís the word to use. Itís been a roller-coaster mentally.
"When I heard I was getting put on waivers, I was hoping to be picked up. That happened and I was excited about getting a chance to play for the Montreal Canadiens and a chance to play in the NHL again.

"Thatís basically as far as I got. I flew into Toronto expecting to play. That morning, I went to the rink and found out that they wanted to get me checked out before I played.

"Then, for four or five days, I was doing nothing up there. They wouldnít let me skate. I was just doing rehab. I kind of had a funny feeling that things werenít going to work out there. Sure enough, a couple of nights ago, I got a call. And here I am."

He said it seemed like a mini-vacation from the Flyers.

"I was gone for such a short period of time," he said. "I had a little vacation, I guess you could say, in Montreal. It feels like I never left, but then thereís that feeling that Iím not part of the lineup, Iím not going to be playing. Thatís a little difficult to deal with."

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10-10-2011, 04:46 PM
  #217
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Just for the record, the player has final say on whether to elect Surgery, not the team. The team just gives the player the choices he has, and the prognosis for those choices. Such as you can have surgery now, and you'll be out for whatever. Or it won't get worse and you can try to play through it and get it taken care of in the off season. It was Richards decision not to do the surgery until after the Season. Not the teams.
But the team generally provides access to the doctor--and if necessary to second opinions. You say Richards opted not to have surgery--do we know that he was presented with that option?

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10-10-2011, 04:46 PM
  #218
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Just for the record, the player has final say on whether to elect Surgery, not the team. The team just gives the player the choices he has, and the prognosis for those choices. Such as you can have surgery now, and you'll be out for whatever. Or it won't get worse and you can try to play through it and get it taken care of in the off season. It was Richards decision not to do the surgery until after the Season. Not the teams.
I imagine the team's trainers have their hand in the process. They aren't blameless. I do know it isn't all their fault though.

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10-10-2011, 04:47 PM
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But the team generally provides access to the doctor--and if necessary to second opinions. You say Richards opted not to have surgery--do we know that he was presented with that option?
If he wasn't presented with that option, then how did he choose it? A team employs a medical staff. But a player has a right to see any Doctor he chooses.

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10-10-2011, 04:48 PM
  #220
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it is really sad to hear betts talk about knowing he likely will not play with the flyers and be part of it, I know I have been saying we will be better without him, which I still believe, but you cannot help but feel bad for the guy.

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10-10-2011, 04:53 PM
  #221
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I imagine the team's trainers have their hand in the process. They aren't blameless. I do know it isn't all their fault though.

When it comes to something such as Richards wrist injury, he would be dealing with the team Orthopedist or any Specialist he might see. Trainers are involved as far as rehab and such.

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10-10-2011, 04:55 PM
  #222
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It's sad but that's reality. At the end of the day, he was picked up on a try out contract, has been hurt multiple times during his short tenure here and didn't play to the standards that we know he can achieve last year.

He seems like a top guy, but his body has taken nothing short of a beating in the last 10 years playing the way he does. It's not unknown for the flyers medical staff to be in-competent either.

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10-10-2011, 04:56 PM
  #223
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It's sad but that's reality. At the end of the day, he was picked up on a try out contract, has been hurt multiple times during his short tenure here and didn't play to the standards that we know he can achieve last year.

He seems like a top guy, but his body has taken nothing short of a beating in the last 10 years playing the way he does. It's not unknown for the flyers medical staff to be in-competent either.
When was the Flyers Medical staff incompetent?

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10-10-2011, 04:57 PM
  #224
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When it comes to something such as Richards wrist injury, he would be dealing with the team Orthopedist or any Specialist he might see. Trainers are involved as far as rehab and such.
I simply find it concerning because this seems to have happened a lot. Leighton hid his back problem, Richards didn't get surgery, and now this Betts deal. before that, Lappy played when he truly shouldn't have, though in that situation it was understandable. I don't recall seeing this happening as much to other teams, unless I just wasn't paying attention to it before.

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10-10-2011, 05:00 PM
  #225
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In real life this ends up a business decision.

You may get different recommendations and diagnoses depending on the background, injury history, and current overall team situation.

You don't schedule a player to have surgergy if this player is no longer part of your plans and you see a realitic chance that he will be picked up by another team. Obviously, Betts has been playing through that kind of symptoms for quite some time and the player himself was convinced that he was good to play...

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