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Do we give Holmgren enough credit?

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Old
10-10-2011, 12:08 PM
  #26
MsWoof
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I love the "he tries to make the team a contender every year" comments. Isn't that the role of every GM? As for his record, 1 good move, 2 bad moves. His cap management, CBA knowledge and inability to read trends (goaltending, especially) are horrible. He doesn't have the brain for business and he doesn't learn from his mistakes.

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10-10-2011, 12:10 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I love the "he tries to make the team a contender every year" comments. Isn't that the role of every GM? As for his record, 1 good move, 2 bad moves. His cap management, CBA knowledge and inability to read trends (goaltending, especially) are horrible. He doesn't have the brain for business and he doesn't learn from his mistakes.
No, he's SUCCESSFUL at making this organization a contender every year.

If the role of every GM is to make their team a contender every year, than he is as successful as the best of them out there if not more so.

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10-10-2011, 12:12 PM
  #28
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Since he took over we went from the cellar to the conference finals and stanley cup finals. We've been considered a top team in the east that whole time. Sure some of his moves may have cost us the cup, but without some others we wouldn't have been close enough to find out.

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10-10-2011, 12:14 PM
  #29
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They are a good team because of Holmgren. However, the team is not as good as it could be because of Holmgren.

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10-10-2011, 12:14 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by mdm815 View Post
some of his moves may have cost us the cup, but without some others we wouldn't have been close enough to find out.
This is the absolute truth. Everyone who doesn't believe this is kidding themselves, and I'm being absolutely 100% serious when I say that.

Look at the disarray of some of the organizations around the league. Be thankful you have a GM who can find the right deals and who can draft the right players even if he outstretches his hand a little too much on minor projects. Also be thankful you have an organization with the backing to continuously allow him to attack the markets the way he does.

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
They are a good team because of Holmgren. However, the team is not as good as it could be because of Holmgren.
And that's the glass-half-empty version of what I just explained.

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10-10-2011, 12:14 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I love the "he tries to make the team a contender every year" comments. Isn't that the role of every GM? As for his record, 1 good move, 2 bad moves. His cap management, CBA knowledge and inability to read trends (goaltending, especially) are horrible. He doesn't have the brain for business and he doesn't learn from his mistakes.
Ask toronto, columbus, florida, atlanta, colorado, edmonton ect.

Would you consider Holmgren GM skills to be more successful over them.

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10-10-2011, 12:16 PM
  #32
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I wonder how Bruins fans felt about their GM/Owner after we came back to beat them. Then, I wonder how they felt about them after they won the cup. It'd be interesting to know.

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10-10-2011, 12:16 PM
  #33
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OK. Sooooooooo does that mean you agree that the organization isn't loyal anymore? Or are you saying that only Snider is smart and Holmgren is controlled by him?
the organition is still loyal to a point. Snider is the boss so yes he does have control over who Holmgren can sign and trade for. I believe the ultimate decision to trade Carter and Richards came from Snider. He wanted his goalie and he knew he had to cut salary to do so.
Has Holmgren made some good moves? of course. But some of the bad moves have been inexcusable.

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10-10-2011, 12:18 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
I wonder how Bruins fans felt about their GM/Owner after we came back to beat them. Then, I wonder how they felt about them after they won the cup. It'd be interesting to know.
If I'm not mistaken, most of their ire was directed at the coach, not the GM. I also believe they've disliked their owner for a while now, and if the opening ceremony was any indication many of them haven't changed their mind.

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10-10-2011, 12:21 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
No, he's SUCCESSFUL at making this organization a contender every year.

If the role of every GM is to make their team a contender every year, than he is as successful as the best of them out there if not more so.
So if we continue to make the playoffs, but every year get knocked out in round 1 or 2, we are successfull organization? I am not saying we have been a failure, but I think successfull organization is a bit of a stretch.

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10-10-2011, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
So if we continue to make the playoffs, but every year get knocked out in round 1 or 2, we are successfull organization? I am not saying we have been a failure, but I think successfull organization is a bit of a stretch.
Since Holmgren took the helm we've been to the third round and the finals.

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10-10-2011, 12:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
Since Holmgren took the helm we've been to the third round and the finals.
no ****.

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10-10-2011, 12:35 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
the organition is still loyal to a point. Snider is the boss so yes he does have control over who Holmgren can sign and trade for. I believe the ultimate decision to trade Carter and Richards came from Snider. He wanted his goalie and he knew he had to cut salary to do so.
Has Holmgren made some good moves? of course. But some of the bad moves have been inexcusable.

Well, I don't want to get into this craziness again but has it been confirmed that he absolutely had to trade both of them to sign Bryz or is that your opinion?

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10-10-2011, 12:37 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If I'm not mistaken, most of their ire was directed at the coach, not the GM. I also believe they've disliked their owner for a while now, and if the opening ceremony was any indication many of them haven't changed their mind.

Interesting. They still hate their owner after winning the cup??? Boy he must have really messed something up lol. The Bourque and/or Thornton trades?

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10-10-2011, 12:41 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
Interesting. They still hate their owner after winning the cup??? Boy he must have really messed something up lol. The Bourque and/or Thornton trades?
MSE would know, I don't remember specifics. I'm pretty sure I heard them booing him when he went to give a speech

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10-10-2011, 12:44 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
Well, I don't want to get into this craziness again but has it been confirmed that he absolutely had to trade both of them to sign Bryz or is that your opinion?
they traded Carter to get the cap space to sign a goalie, trading Richards was for reasons that will be forever debated on this board.

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10-10-2011, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
Well, I don't want to get into this craziness again but has it been confirmed that he absolutely had to trade both of them to sign Bryz or is that your opinion?
How many times must people post cap compliant lineups with both Carter and Richards? And how many times must the Homer quote saying "we could have kept both of them" be re-quoted.

It was NOT necessary at all. They made the decision to do so anyway.

Note: not trying to be snarky at you, just don't understand how other people keep thinking it was needed.

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10-10-2011, 12:45 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
they traded Carter to get the cap space to sign a goalie, trading Richards was for reasons that will be forever debated on this board.

Right so how were they loyal to Richards then?

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10-10-2011, 12:46 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
How many times must people post cap compliant lineups with both Carter and Richards? And how many times must the Homer quote saying "we could have kept both of them" be re-quoted.

It was NOT necessary at all. They made the decision to do so anyway.

I know that. I'm trying to show that they weren't loyal

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10-10-2011, 12:52 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
no ****.
Well aren't you being immature and angry...sheesh.

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10-10-2011, 12:52 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
Right so how were they loyal to Richards then?
As loyal as they were to Gagne the year before.

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10-10-2011, 12:53 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
They are a good team because of Holmgren. However, the team is not as good as it could be because of Holmgren.
This is pretty much an unprovable statement. There is no telling what another GM or even other moves could have done. You can only go by the results. Anything else is 100% speculation and any move that COULD have been made that COULD have made the team better, the exact opposite is equally as true. The results are this: Homer took over the worst team in franchise history in 2006. Following that year, when his moves started, they have been to the ECF, lost in first round to the eventual champs, SCF, and second round. I am not sure how you can look at that and not say he has been successful. Yes, other moves could have been made, but there is no telling what the results would have been. They could have been better, but there is just as much a possibility that if different moves were made they miss the playoffs or lose in the first round. Hence, you can only look to the results. If the Flyers miss the playoffs this season, then we can start calling into question the moves and talk about him messing up, but until then the results are positive so it really doesn't make sense to say he hasn't done a good job.

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10-10-2011, 12:54 PM
  #48
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This is pretty much an unprovable statement. There is no telling what another GM or even other moves could have done. You can only go by the results. Anything else is 100% speculation and any move that COULD have been made that COULD have made the team better, the exact opposite is equally as true. The results are this: Homer took over the worst team in franchise history in 2006. Following that year, when his moves started, they have been to the ECF, lost in first round to the eventual champs, SCF, and second round. I am not sure how you can look at that and not say he has been successful. Yes, other moves could have been made, but there is no telling what the results would have been. They could have been better, but there is just as much a possibility that if different moves were made they miss the playoffs or lose in the first round. Hence, you can only look to the results. If the Flyers miss the playoffs this season, then we can start calling into question the moves and talk about him messing up, but until then the results are positive so it really doesn't make sense to say he hasn't done a good job.
You don't think that wasting cap space that could be used for better players holds the team back? You don't think that Shelley's 1.1 million dollars could be put to better use, or Walker's 1.7? That list can easily go on.

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10-10-2011, 12:56 PM
  #49
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Well aren't you being immature and angry...sheesh.
yeah well I just get tired of peope just being happy with making the playoffs.
St.Louis made the playoffs for what 30 straight years? That sure got them many Cups.

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10-10-2011, 12:57 PM
  #50
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If homer hadn't made some really OBVIOUS bonehead moves we'd have Johnathan Blum and John Carlsson on our blueline right now and all it would cost us off the current roster would be Matt Carle. Think about that, two top pairing dmen for Matt Carle and that's not to mention that we'd also still have Steve Downie instead of just letting Carcillo walk for nothing because he's crap.


Homer did a lot to redieem himself this off-season (or at least time to see if his big moves pay off in the long run) but he's still screwed things up on a regular basis.

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