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Old
10-11-2011, 11:58 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Torts Kinda Guy View Post
Just like the Devils did last year? Yea that worked out...........

Who was the coach of the year last year?

See, I can play that game too.

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10-11-2011, 12:16 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
Who was the coach of the year last year?

See, I can play that game too.
I'm not going to get into a piss match with you. But that was a bad example. Every expert I heard and friends thought he was ridicuss to win that award given their roster....

My point was you make it sound like, "oh lets get any 30 some thing player, he can do the job". Witch obviously is not the case.

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10-11-2011, 12:21 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Finally a coach puts out the young, physical, and hard working unit we've been begging for for nearly a decade and yet the fanbase does nothing but *****

its 2 games in after a ridiculous preseason and some unfortunate injuries

this thread and others like it are reason i hate a lot of our fans...
Total agreement here.

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10-11-2011, 12:36 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Finally a coach puts out the young, physical, and hard working unit we've been begging for for nearly a decade and yet the fanbase does nothing but *****

its 2 games in after a ridiculous preseason and some unfortunate injuries

this thread and others like it are reason i hate a lot of our fans...i think im going to stop comming here for a little while
Ill agree with you there. Tortorella is committed to the youth movement, and he has the temperment/mentality to produce a team thats a bunch of rabid dogs by the time they take the ice - hence the physical/hard working identity.

My problem with Tortorella is when the going gets tough and more than motivation is needed. I dont see a tactician at all. I dont see a guy thats very capable of making any adjustments to the gameplan in the middle of a game whatsoever.

His answer to ineffectiveness, almost exclusively, is to switch up his line combinations and try to catch lightning in a bottle.

You give Tortorella a team with enough talent, and this isnt a real issue - but we ain't there yet.

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10-11-2011, 12:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My problem with Tortorella is when the going gets tough and more than motivation is needed. I dont see a tactician at all. I dont see a guy thats very capable of making any adjustments to the gameplan in the middle of a game whatsoever.
You give Tortorella a team with enough talent, and this isnt a real issue - but we ain't there yet.
I agree. He's not Xs & Os. I don't think he does any of that. And as far as having enough talent, its the NHL. There's not too many guys in this league that, if you gave them the talent, wouldnt succeed. A great coach gets lesser talent to have greater results. I think this is why his training camps are so hard. You don't have to be Scotty Bowman to skate the hell out of guys. Conditioning will win you some games. But he makes no real moves that you can ever say changed the outcome mid game. Which bring me to my point. He had the talent in Tampa, and rode it to a cup. He just happened to not screw it up or get outcoached.

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10-11-2011, 01:07 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by YMMV View Post
Total agreement here.

You got that right pal. We finally have a coach who holds players accountable and who wants things done a certain way and all some fans do is ***** and moan like little babies. Oh, Torts is too tough on the players and he changes lines too much, and he isn't politically correct in his post game conferences with the press. Let's wait a month and see what develops with this team before we press the panic button.

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10-11-2011, 02:40 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
You got that right pal. We finally have a coach who holds players accountable and who wants things done a certain way and all some fans do is ***** and moan like little babies. Oh, Torts is too tough on the players and he changes lines too much, and he isn't politically correct in his post game conferences with the press. Let's wait a month and see what develops with this team before we press the panic button.
I'm pretty sure that most of the complaints have been about things that we've seen during his extended period of time here.

For a guy who has shown no ability to adapt, why would you expect any of us to believe that that's going to change over the next month?

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10-11-2011, 02:52 PM
  #108
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In my opinion, Torts is a good coach. He is great at motivating guys and promoting them to play a physical brand of hockey. The only problem that I have with his is when the going gets tough around midgame, and the players are not producing, he decides to juggle lines and does not adapt very well to the other teams gameplan. If sending 2 guys deep on the forecheck is not working, switch it up to a 1-2-2 and try to force turnovers or something along those lines. Juggling players accomplishes nothing and ****s with the chemistry of the team, although sometimes you need to switch it up, Torts does it way too much

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10-11-2011, 03:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ill agree with you there. Tortorella is committed to the youth movement, and he has the temperment/mentality to produce a team thats a bunch of rabid dogs by the time they take the ice - hence the physical/hard working identity.

My problem with Tortorella is when the going gets tough and more than motivation is needed. I dont see a tactician at all. I dont see a guy thats very capable of making any adjustments to the gameplan in the middle of a game whatsoever.

His answer to ineffectiveness, almost exclusively, is to switch up his line combinations and try to catch lightning in a bottle.

You give Tortorella a team with enough talent, and this isnt a real issue - but we ain't there yet.
I agree but why do you suppose the team comes out so flat so often ? If he has them revved up like rabid dogs we would be flying out there. Problem is last year and so far this year the team gets a slow start, they have to reminded to work hard etc. with the exception of maybe Cali.

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10-11-2011, 03:48 PM
  #110
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Funny how no one ever complains when torts mixes up the lines, goes with who is hot that night, and wins the game

I'll be sure to point that out every chance I can this season

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10-11-2011, 04:00 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
In my opinion, Torts is a good coach. He is great at motivating guys and promoting them to play a physical brand of hockey. The only problem that I have with his is when the going gets tough around midgame, and the players are not producing, he decides to juggle lines and does not adapt very well to the other teams gameplan. If sending 2 guys deep on the forecheck is not working, switch it up to a 1-2-2 and try to force turnovers or something along those lines. Juggling players accomplishes nothing and ****s with the chemistry of the team, although sometimes you need to switch it up, Torts does it way too much
Every single coach in the NHL does this, though. It's probably the #1 complaint by fans, but they do it anyway. Maybe they know better than we do?

I watched the Bolts-Caps game last night and both coaches were switching lines up all over the place.

In the finals last season, Vigneault was cycling people playing on the Sedins' line constantly, and he was an Adams finalist.

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10-11-2011, 06:07 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
Every single coach in the NHL does this, though. It's probably the #1 complaint by fans, but they do it anyway. Maybe they know better than we do?

I watched the Bolts-Caps game last night and both coaches were switching lines up all over the place.

In the finals last season, Vigneault was cycling people playing on the Sedins' line constantly, and he was an Adams finalist.
So true...for better or for worse, there seems to be a growing number of coaches who use this as a deliberate strategy to try to spark something in their teams when a line combo doesn't work. This is not a Torts thing...it is something that a lot of them are doing now. He does it more than some and less than others...

Probably in a couple of years some coach will reinvent stable lines and people will hail him as the creator of a new coaching style -- or the fans will get upset when he sticks with a line that doesn't produce instant results (cuz the fans always know so much more about coaching than the guy who gets paid to do it )

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10-11-2011, 06:46 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by DrAStuart View Post
So true...for better or for worse, there seems to be a growing number of coaches who use this as a deliberate strategy to try to spark something in their teams when a line combo doesn't work. This is not a Torts thing...it is something that a lot of them are doing now. He does it more than some and less than others...

Probably in a couple of years some coach will reinvent stable lines and people will hail him as the creator of a new coaching style -- or the fans will get upset when he sticks with a line that doesn't produce instant results (cuz the fans always know so much more about coaching than the guy who gets paid to do it )
Yeah, as evidence of this: there's a thread on the history board about the Rangers 1st line in 1994. Keenan messed with that line a lot. I remember that in the course of the season and playoffs, Anderson, Amonte, Larmer, Gartner, and Kovalev all spent time playing RW with Graves-Messier. Hell, I know it was the PP, but Noonan was on the ice with them for the GWG in game 7. Messier's hat trick in game 6 against NJ was as much the result of him playing a lot with Kovalev as it was about pure willpower.

Tortorella seems to be a little more apt to do it, but it's nothing new.


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10-11-2011, 06:50 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
Every single coach in the NHL does this, though. It's probably the #1 complaint by fans, but they do it anyway. Maybe they know better than we do?

I watched the Bolts-Caps game last night and both coaches were switching lines up all over the place.

In the finals last season, Vigneault was cycling people playing on the Sedins' line constantly, and he was an Adams finalist.
Exactly.

It's not as though most lines are kept intact throughout an entire season. Coaches change their line combinations consistenly due to the fact, that in most cases, perceived "chemistry" doesn't last forever. Even the Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry line isn't kept together every single game.

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10-11-2011, 07:16 PM
  #115
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Basic problem I have with Tortorella is that he's a hypocrite. He preaches accountability, but is not himself ever accountable. If a media guy asks him a question he doesn't like, he simply refuses to answer it. That and he's a bully who picks on certain players. Oh, and he throws his players under the bus that he, himself, will never allow himself to go under in the media. He's an arrogant POS who made a cup ring into a career. Sounds familiar? He's Mike Keenan lite, except he doesn't have the endearing quality of going behind the guy who hired him's back and trying to make himself the GM over and over again.
Can't believe I forgot to address this, but bringing up Keenan in another way reminded me. Keenan was an extremely successful coach before he won the Cup with us. In 8 years of head coaching prior to joining the Rangers, he went to the Cup finals 3 times (losing to powerhouse Oilers twice and Penguins once) and conference finals 2 times. His legacy was definitely tarnished by his actions after the Cup win, but he did not turn a Cup into a career. He turned being a very successful coach into a long career.

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10-11-2011, 07:44 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Finally a coach puts out the young, physical, and hard working unit we've been begging for for nearly a decade and yet the fanbase does nothing but *****

its 2 games in after a ridiculous preseason and some unfortunate injuries

this thread and others like it are reason i hate a lot of our fans...i think im going to stop comming here for a little while
I agree try not to let it bother you but there are some reeeaaaally dumb people around here. There are also though some very smart, sensible people, guys like Loffen who put in so much work and great wellsprings of hockey info like RB. I've only blocked one person around here and it was only bc they were clearly getting preferential treatment due to seniority yet contributed nothing around here so I didn't feel like getting infractions. Best thing I ever did. The other thing I do is if I know a horrible poster is replying to me I only read the first two sentences. If I already hate the nonsense they are writing I just ignore the rest and request they make sense, drop their attitude, etc. It bothers the heck out of them to know they wasted their time typing essay's to me and makes me laugh. Or I just ignore the post outright. Try not to get too down. Maybe just peruse the titles for good info like injury updates and whatnot. Threads likely not to include nonsensical whining.

And I just want to say even though yea I love this team's identity and the direction and I think it's all obvious we are trending upwards (Tho like any team we could fail to ultimately win) I understand why people are skeptical and want to see the product on the ice achieve before getting all excited. I think that's very boring and for some people it's clear they're bandwagonish while others just want to avoid heartbreak. I get behind my teams, i have my expectations yea and i'm horribly dissappointed by the end results of not winning a championship in some seasonslike us in 97, 06, last year's Jets...other seasons I'm ecstatic my team battled back like the 2002 Jets or last year's Rangers. I take each season on its own merit tho. What annoys me is not that other people don't take each year as its own experience it's that they challenge you for wanting to enjoy. Yea we have had a craptastic GM. Why does that mean I'm not allowed to be excited to watch the players perform off of last year? I don't know why the passion for hockey that drives people to this board also makes them so prone to whining and misery.


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Old
10-11-2011, 09:09 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Torts Kinda Guy View Post
I'm not going to get into a piss match with you. But that was a bad example. Every expert I heard and friends thought he was ridicuss to win that award given their roster....

My point was you make it sound like, "oh lets get any 30 some thing player, he can do the job". Witch obviously is not the case.
What Roster? Bylsma won the Adams because of the people missing from the roster.

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10-11-2011, 09:21 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ill agree with you there. Tortorella is committed to the youth movement, and he has the temperment/mentality to produce a team thats a bunch of rabid dogs by the time they take the ice - hence the physical/hard working identity.

My problem with Tortorella is when the going gets tough and more than motivation is needed. I dont see a tactician at all. I dont see a guy thats very capable of making any adjustments to the gameplan in the middle of a game whatsoever.

His answer to ineffectiveness, almost exclusively, is to switch up his line combinations and try to catch lightning in a bottle.

You give Tortorella a team with enough talent, and this isnt a real issue - but we ain't there yet.
Bingo. Well said, man. This is exactly how I feel. If Tortorella sticks around for the next few years and sather continues his recent string of smart, efficient moves, then I think Tortorella is fine. He's not going to "hold us back" from winning a championship if we continue to progress, but I do think there are coaches who could do more with less. If laviolette were available I think he'd be a great coach. I also think guy Boucher would be a great coach for this current team, but hey, we have Tortorella for now and I'm confident that hes part of the solution right now. That may change, of course, but only time will tell.

Edit: it's not the fact that he juggles lines ad nauseum that bothers me; it's the fact that it seems to be his only move when things aren't working. Like BRB said, he seems to have next to no tactical strategy or the ability to adapt to other coaches / teams strategies during a game. And I have to put a large amount of blame for the powerplay being so miserable on him and Sullivan. Theres not enough movement. Even at even strength, we move the puck from stationary player to stationary player. Watch all of the good teams. Whenever they go D to D, the guy receiving the puck immediately takes a few quick strides upon accepting the pass and THEN looks for an open lane. We simply do not do this and this is why our neutral zone game has been exposed so handily by other teams, and also why other teams D are so easily able to step up at the blueline and stifle any potential offense by forcing us to dump it in or turn it over.


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Old
10-11-2011, 09:23 PM
  #119
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I think Torts is the perfect coach for here in NY, he handles it all pretty damn well. I think a perfect example of it was when the media asked him about Sean Avery being cut, and he just answered with the truth. He said something along the lines that Avery isn't a bad player, but the Rangers have better players instead of him and its nothing against Sean. I liked that approach

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10-11-2011, 09:31 PM
  #120
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Since he tookover for Renney this team has done a 360 and looks ten times better down the line. Honestly, I think Sather's complete change from being a fool to putting together a tough young squad of promising guys is in large part due to Torts.

The fact that the team we iced last year even made the playoffs speaks mounds of what kind of coach he is.

He's turned numerous guys into better players since he got here

Dubinsky
Callahan
Boyle
Prust

I could go on but there's no need. Torts gets the most from his players. We may not agree with his every move, but he's trying and doing what I believe is his best with this team.

Plus I'm sure he played a major hand in getting rid of Gomez, Drury and Redden.

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10-11-2011, 09:38 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ruckus View Post
I'm pretty sure that most of the complaints have been about things that we've seen during his extended period of time here.

For a guy who has shown no ability to adapt, why would you expect any of us to believe that that's going to change over the next month?
Adapt to what?!?! What was he supposed to adapt to? During his time here we have been weeding out the bad contracts he had inherited due to Sather's bad signings. He hasnt had a true number one center until now. He has had young teams with little experience that have made it to the postseason because they find way to wins under his coaching and system.

Two games and this is the discussion we're having? TWO!....Honestly, I'm not dramatic (not that anyone will say I'm being as such) BUT THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS. Two games in against very good western conference teams overseas with a lineup that was without their best defenseman. They played the best line in the league. The Kings might have the deepest forward unit when it comes to talent and threats.

Some of you need to get a grip.

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10-12-2011, 05:53 AM
  #122
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I'll revisit this post in December, but are people making excuses for the losses already? Rangers are supposed to be taking that next step to being an elite team. There are no more excuses. The Bruins won the Division and Cup without their best offensive player.

As for the rangers, they have one of the best goalies in the league.

They have one of the game's best playmakers.

They have one of the game's best snipers.

They have one of the game's best two-way forwards.

They have one of the league's best group of defensive defensemen.

The talent is there. That's why this team was able to score 6 and 7 goals in a game last year. Too bad they have NEVER been consistent with their offense.

The power play has been an abortion. It was an abortion in 2009, in 2010, in 2011, and its been an abortion in the preseason and through two games.

This is Torts' 4th year as coach (3rd from the start). If the Rangers are a .500 team in late December, it's time for a change.

Enough with the excuses.

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10-12-2011, 06:14 AM
  #123
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These aren't excuses.

Torts and Richards and probably the entire team wants to get back to the "normal life".

If they look like garbage from Saturday on out, then there are no excuses: we are just bad.

However, I don't think this will be the case, but we'll see.

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10-12-2011, 06:24 AM
  #124
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I'll revisit this post in December, but are people making excuses for the losses already? Rangers are supposed to be taking that next step to being an elite team. There are no more excuses. The Bruins won the Division and Cup without their best offensive player.

As for the rangers, they have one of the best goalies in the league.

They have one of the game's best playmakers.

They have one of the game's best snipers.

They have one of the game's best two-way forwards.

They have one of the league's best group of defensive defensemen.

The talent is there. That's why this team was able to score 6 and 7 goals in a game last year. Too bad they have NEVER been consistent with their offense.

The power play has been an abortion. It was an abortion in 2009, in 2010, in 2011, and its been an abortion in the preseason and through two games.

This is Torts' 4th year as coach (3rd from the start). If the Rangers are a .500 team in late December, it's time for a change.

Enough with the excuses.
well said.

the torts system in theory is sound. outwork your opponent and forecheck them to death. problem is, it doesnt work when you start game after game slow and unprepared.

and if we get behind, we rarely come back. our lack of shooters other than gaby and now br19 doesnt help.

torts still doesnt have an answer for teams employing his system against us. we always struggle against heavy forecheck/trapping teams.

with the pp looking clueless already, im not confident that this season will be much different than what you describe above.

torts is a stubborn, predictable, old school tactician who doesnt react well to failure and cannot change or adapt.

he is frequently outcoached.

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10-12-2011, 07:08 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
I'll revisit this post in December, but are people making excuses for the losses already? Rangers are supposed to be taking that next step to being an elite team. There are no more excuses. The Bruins won the Division and Cup without their best offensive player.

As for the rangers, they have one of the best goalies in the league.

They have one of the game's best playmakers.

They have one of the game's best snipers.

They have one of the game's best two-way forwards.

They have one of the league's best group of defensive defensemen.

The talent is there. That's why this team was able to score 6 and 7 goals in a game last year. Too bad they have NEVER been consistent with their offense.

The power play has been an abortion. It was an abortion in 2009, in 2010, in 2011, and its been an abortion in the preseason and through two games.

This is Torts' 4th year as coach (3rd from the start). If the Rangers are a .500 team in late December, it's time for a change.Enough with the excuses.
Agreed totally. Can Sather too while we are at it.
But (alas ) I think we will not be a .500 team in December. So Torts will stay. And so will Sather...
Hoping for a miracle come June

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